ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[RetiredEE]

MOO. In my line of work, I see these white Tyvek suits every day, and I’d have to agree with this opinion. If you zoom into the photo, you can see the slight shadow/light of the somewhat textured surface of a Tyvek suit. The material is also gathered in specific places that look to be more like the inner elastic bands for a Tyvek suit than a bolster or fabric panel of a comforter. Typically, comforters are sewn such that the panels of fabric are in some way geometrically balanced (but not always) and although obviously we can’t see the whole image clearly, the gathers of the material seem to be imbalanced /oddly placed for a comforter but properly placed for an elastic inner band of a hooded Tyvek suit. All of this is MOO, to be clear.

New member and first time poster here. My sister and her family live less than half a mile away from the house where this happened, and I’m gnawingly worried that this might be the work of a potential serial killer and not just a fellow student who had a bone to pick or a score to settle. I found this site and this thread because I’ve been trying to grasp at every update I can about this case, since it hits very close to home (literally) for members of my family.

Welcome and hopefully the killer will be quickly brought to justice.

 

[IceIce9]

All the new houses in our region are still being built with sliding patio doors, including high end homes.

Sliding glass patio doors are very popular where I live, in new construction and as replacement doors in existing homes.

The new sliding glass doors have a locking mechanism in the bottom as well as the side, so you don’t have to put wood dowels or bars in the bottom any longer.

 

[Retired_grumpy_bastard]

This is my opinion on the knife. I don’t think it will be found, unless and until the perpetrator is caught. Even then, it might not be found. I think this is a guy that’s proud of what he did. I think he keeps souvenirs and trophies.

A guy that goes on a bear hunt, in Alaska, isn’t going to leave his prized rifle behind, after he shoots the bear. He’s going to take it home with him, and use it again, the next time he goes hunting. Same goes for the bear. It will be mounted or made in to a rug.

I think this killer took things from the house. Not things to go sell or pawn. Things to relive his fantasy, in his own twisted, perverted, little mind. I think he took small items. Things that would fit in a pocket, perhaps.

<modsnip: graphic and potentially offensive/triggering>

I think he feels powerful. For the very first time in his little life, he was able to take control of something. I think he feels emboldened. I think he will strike again. I think there will be a significant cooling off period, before he strikes again. He might strike in another state, next time.

This guy is saying to himself, I finally did it!!! He has been having sadistic thoughts and fantasizing about something like this, since he was a teenager. I think he has killed before, but not four people, at once.

Let’s just hope this creep gets caught soon. Please keep the families and friends of the victims in your prayers. Please keep the entire area in your prayers. A lot of people that didn’t even know the victims are feeling the pain.

 

[mysteryfan96]

Mysteryfan96, keep in mind murders like this do happen randomly. Maybe not commonly, but I recall a certain Richard Speck breaking into a dorm and killing eight nursing students. He had a knife and claimed he only planned to commit a burglary. Just because it happened in 1966 doesn't rule out criminal intent of today's deranged individuals.

I admitted they happen, but very, very rarely. The statistics on crime bear it out. Murders are almost always committed by an acquaintance of the victim, and in cases where the victims don’t know the killer, another motive such as robbery or rape is involved. Even serial killers like Ted Bundy didn’t break in to houses and carve up a bunch of people just for kicks. There was a psycho-sexual element to their crimes, usually for a feeling of control, and they often tortured their victims for quite some time as a form of sick pleasure. This crime, in contrast, was much more of a frenzied bloodbath with multiple victims stabbed and slashed repeatedly. It just doesn’t have, at least in my opinion, the hallmarks of a serial killer.

It COULD be a stranger, because it has happened before. I just really lean away from that theory due to both the facts surrounding this case and the crime stats themselves.

 

[lrhoover]

I was wondering if he meant sliding door also

If you look back in the time line the mod posted there is a tweet referenced that says the entry was through the back sliding door.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593390155809058816

*edited to update reference

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Does anyone know if this is the first forensics team working the scene? Wondering because it's 4 days after the murders and it seems like some evidence may be degraded the longer you wait?

MOO.

I finally found it for you as I knew I had seen it earlier. Finally looked through my old posts.

In this interview Snell says they were going back in for another look. They don’t think anything was missed but wanted another set of eyes to be thorough.

Homicide investigation underway after 4 University of Idaho students found dead

MOSCOW, Idaho - The City of Moscow Police Department (MPD) shared a map detailing the timeline of events that led up to a mass stabbing that left four University of

www.khq.com

 

[FruitTingles]

I don’t know how old the house in Idaho is. I’m going to speculate that it’s probably an older home, that was remodeled, at sone point and the sliding glass door was left in place. Again, that’s just my opinion.

In the real estate listing I posted yesterday. It said the home had been fully renovated in 2018-2019. Of course I don’t know how many times it had been before this either, though.

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Trulia

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 is a 3,120 sqft, 6 bed, 3 bath home. See the estimate, review home details, and search for homes nearby.

www.trulia.com

There is older photo’s of it before remodelling that I found at this link, can’t see the sliding doors though. I don’t know when these are from, but it’s safe to say they’re from before the 2018-2019 renovating.

1122 King Rd for $2,095/month on PadMapper

1122 King Rd is a 6 bed, 2 bath apartment in Moscow, ID. Search for other sublets, houses and apartment rentals in Moscow, then use our bedroom, bathroom and rent price filters to find your perfect home.

www.padmapper.com

 

[TheProblemWeAllLiveWith]

After hearing K’s sister describe her as the girl with no past problems or enemies (“everyone’s daughter, everyone’s friend”) and thinking more about the extremely gruesome crime scene, it’s my opinion that this crime was committed by one individual, and it was someone they knew who was on the periphery of their social orbit. I say all of that for these reasons:

1) It is quite often the sweetest and almost too perfect people who can inspire the most anger, resentment, and jealousy among others. So if K really was that beautiful inside and out, it’s entirely possible there were girls who were jealous of her and just pretended to be her friend as well as guys who resented her for not returning their affection or paying them enough attention. There was a guy like that in my high school- best athlete in the school, model looks, and even an honor student, and literally the most humble and kind guy ever. He shouldn’t have had a single enemy, but he was secretly resented by so many, including some of the guys who hung out with him.

2) It is highly unlikely the killings were an unplanned crime that happened during the commission of a burglary or assault. If someone is robbing the house and suddenly is caught by a tenant, it is very unlikely that criminal would stick around and go room to room savagely eviscerating everyone there, leaving behind such a bloodbath of overkill. Burglars or even rapists like to get in, commit their crimes, and then get out.

3) I’m no expert in burglary, but I would think that a very large knife such as the one police are looking for wouldn’t be in your typical burglar’s toolkit. Feels like that would only get in the way. That type of knife would almost certainly be brought into the home of someone else for one reason alone- to commit a large amount of violence. To kill.

4) And while it has happened before, it is absolutely VERY rare for a complete stranger to break in to a house full of people in the middle of the night and slaughter them so brutally without any other motive. Drifters break in to houses to steal. Rapists and even most serial killers break in and kill while also committing sexual assaults, with usually just 1 victim. The psychopathy required to break into a house in the middle of the night and then so savagely and repeatedly stab and slash that many complete strangers for no reasons other than “for fun” is off the charts and (thankfully) not present in most people. That’s Manson Family level stuff.

No, to me, this crime points towards a motive involving jealousy, resentment, and pent-up anger likely built up over months or even years towards one or maybe two of the victims. I’m guessing it’s going to be someone who had interacted with at least one of the victims on multiple occasions. Maybe it was a frequent customer of the restaurant where they worked and the killer mistook kindness for affection and then snapped when he found out he had no chance for love. Or maybe it was someone who was a friend of a friend who attended some of their parties and for whatever reason felt rejected by the girls and as though he would never really be a true part of their social circle. Maybe it was a neighbor or a classmate who got friend-zoned and after a while couldn’t take it anymore. Or maybe even something as simple as a guy who bought them drinks one night and became enraged when they shot him down. I think it will end up being someone who was known to the girls (and maybe even the surviving girls) who they never thought of as anything other than a casual friend or acquaintance and never considered a threat. Thus, they never would have alerted family or friends to his presence in their lives because he hid his hatred well. And as cliche as it sounds, I’m betting there was a trigger event, either in his own personal life, or perhaps even in his interactions with one or more of the girls, which made him snap and decide to kill that night.

The killing was extremely personal. It was filled with rage. It was up close and while they slept. It was overkill, to say the least. It was someone who had met them before in some capacity. MOO.

Great post, and it reminded me of a recent case- two sisters shared a house with a male friend while attending college in Florida. One sister had a boyfriend. The other sister decided to move back home. As she is packing her things, the male roommate stabs her to death. It seemingly came out of nowhere, but her leaving is what triggered him, even though they had no romantic relationship. It wasn’t premeditated, he was drunk and sleep deprived. (I’m sorry I’ll look up the names can’t remember right now, there were some family interviews and an interrogation some may have seen).
Point being, in the Idaho case, one of the girls was planning to leave soon, maybe that pushed someone over the edge in a ‘crime of passion’ fashion?

 

[Orlaam]

I admitted they happen, but very, very rarely. The statistics on crime bear it out. Murders are almost always committed by an acquaintance of the victim, and in cases where the victims don’t know the killer, another motive such as robbery or rape is involved. Even serial killers like Ted Bundy didn’t break in to houses and carve up a bunch of people just for kicks. There was a psycho-sexual element to their crimes, usually for a feeling of control, and they often tortured their victims for quite some time as a form of sick pleasure. This crime, in contrast, was much more of a frenzied bloodbath with multiple victims stabbed and slashed repeatedly. It just doesn’t have, at least in my opinion, the hallmarks of a serial killer.

It COULD be a stranger, because it has happened before. I just really lean away from that theory due to both the facts surrounding this case and the crime stats themselves.

It seems hard to speculate much at this point. That home seems to be in an isolated Greek university living sector. Yet, that doesn't mean a random university student didn't kill these students. It could have been anyone. I feel like they know a little more than they're letting on, but time will tell.

 

[Retired_grumpy_bastard]

Was thinking about possible music playing, and if it drowned out anything else ?

Also, real life is not like a movie.
There wouldn't necessarily been screaming from the victims.

Graphic :




This doesn't mean one or more of them didn't put up a heck of a fight !
If someone is stabbing and slashing at you, you're trying to deflect and maybe grab the arm that's holding the weapon, in this case a knife ?
So it could have been mostly quiet, except for guttural sounds of terror.
You might not have breath to scream, but only to struggle.

I'm angry that their last moments were filled with fear and pain.


Waiting impatiently for news of an arrest.
This perp needs to be caught, soon !
Imo.

You nailed it. I was once in a fight for my life, at work. A man was attempting to kill me, with his hands. We were rolling around on the ground, fighting. Other officers were nearby. I could hear them talking, but I couldn’t get out a yell or a scream. He was much larger than me. He was hitting me hard, in the face and the sides of my head. I was just about to lose consciousness.

A female officer just happened to look over my way and scream. That was the most beautiful sound I ever heard in my life. Help came fast. I survived.

 

[mysteryfan96]

Great post, and it reminded me of a recent case- two sisters shared a house with a male friend while attending college in Florida. One sister had a boyfriend. The other sister decided to move back home. As she is packing her things, the male roommate stabs her to death. It seemingly came out of nowhere, but her leaving is what triggered him, even though they had no romantic relationship. It wasn’t premeditated, he was drunk and sleep deprived. (I’m sorry I’ll look up the names can’t remember right now, there were some family interviews and an interrogation some may have seen).
Point being, in the Idaho case, one of the girls was planning to leave soon, maybe that pushed someone over the edge in a ‘crime of passion’ fashion?

That’s a very good point you bring up, about K moving away soon. If… and granted it’s still a big “if” at this point… she was the target, then her moving away could conceivably have motivated someone to commit the crime now. I could see a “you’re not getting away that easy” or “if I can’t have you, nobody will” type scenario unfolding due to her moving to another state. Good post.

 

[mysteryfan96]

It seems hard to speculate much at this point. That home seems to be in an isolated Greek university living sector. Yet, that doesn't mean a random university student didn't kill these students. It could have been anyone. I feel like they know a little more than they're letting on, but time will tell.

I agree 100% that they definitely know more than they’re divulging at this point. It’s a college town where people talk with a crime scene that likely included a lot of physical evidence and two survivors as well. I think they at least have a working theory or a few credible leads by this point.

 

[branmuffin]

Was Maddie wearing her own jacket in the Twitch video? It seemed huge. Maybe it's her bf's? He doesn't look that big though. If she went out for the night not dressed for the weather could some guy have offered his jacket to her? Was it found in the home?

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

Was thinking about possible music playing, and if it drowned out anything else ?

Also, real life is not like a movie.
There wouldn't necessarily been screaming from the victims.

Graphic :




This doesn't mean one or more of them didn't put up a heck of a fight !
If someone is stabbing and slashing at you, you're trying to deflect and maybe grab the arm that's holding the weapon, in this case a knife ?
So it could have been mostly quiet, except for guttural sounds of terror.
You might not have breath to scream, but only to struggle.

I'm angry that their last moments were filled with fear and pain.


Waiting impatiently for news of an arrest.
This perp needs to be caught, soon !
Imo.

I just can't imagine how horrifying their last moments were. So terribly sad. Just so vicious and four young victims. Truly a sick person that does this.

 

[Lilibet]

Welcome new members, one and all. I can’t keep up with your names, but I see your excellent posts. Thanks for being here.

 

[Curiosa20]

Is it just me or is this statement by the chief confusing? He says both “we’re not 100% sure if the door was unlocked” and “the door was still open when we got there”. Could that mean he isn’t sure it was unlocked when the killer gained access but it certainly was unlocked when LE arrived at the scene? And is he talking about the door by the parked cars, or the sliding glass door in the back?

I better undertand and fully sympathize with all the local students clamor as well as the frustration of Ethan’s parents in response to the lack of information and IMO gobbledegook coming from Chief Fry.
That statement is absurdly comfusing and so is the majority of information provided so far. If a door is open it is not closed or locked. It could be closed but not locked. Then again, no one asked which door?
He also is quoted as saying the two survivors “declined” to call 911. What does that mean? As if they were given an option and chose not to? No, thank you, I don’t want to call. You call. No, you call… no.. let’s just wait, someone will come over and they can call?!?! I don’t think that happened.
I suspect that some of the victims were treated with particular brutality, therefore rhe initial “targeted, crime of passion” remarks. Maybe they were bound and gagged, too. It really does seem that LE is loathe to speak clearly or release details, hiding behind the “investigation” screen. Why?
Was it the ME or Coroner who said the victim’s murders were “the most gruesome” she had ever seen?
I suppose the BAU is still working on a profile due to what I imagine to be a particularly heinous series of events and actions, which has also led the Chief to issue the warning that no one is safe, don’t be outside alone if possible, lock your doors…
I believe they have been trying to shield the families from further pain as the autopsies were performed but it’s past time for clarity.
There’s even an Editorial board statement from the major newspaper The Idaho Statesman, behind a paywall, demanding information for the safety and well being of all.
IMO MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Slain Idaho student's dad says body showed signs she defended herself

The father of one of four slain Idaho students has revealed that his daughter's autopsy reports showed that his daughter Xana's skin showed 'Bruises, torn by the knife.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

The sister of one of the University of Idaho students killed in a brutal quadruple murder over the weekend urged any students still at the school to evacuate.

Aubrie Goncalves, whose sister Kaylee was stabbed to death by an unknown assailant, warned any students in Moscow, Idaho, that they were not safe so long as the mysterious killer was still at large.

Goncalves made plea on her Instagram account on Wednesday, writing 'No one is in custody and therefore no one is safe.'

'To the students of the University of Idaho that are still staying around campus, leave. Your grades are severely less important than your lives,' she wrote. 'I wish all the students of U of I safety and peace. You guys are not safe until this sicko is found.

The distraught sister's warning comes as the father of another victim, Xana Kernodle, revealed that his daughter's body showed signs that she had defended herself from her killer.

Jeffrey Kernodle told CBS 5 that autopsy reports showed that Xana's skin showed 'Bruises, torn by the knife.'

'She's a tough kid. Whatever she wanted to do, she could do it,' he said.

 

[Curiosa20]

Yes, that's it, thank you!

Considering the notoriety this case has already achieved, plus the impact on the entire University, I'm wondering if someone with a little more pull than the coroner can fast-track any analyses which can be "fast-tracked". Who that person might be I don't know: Idaho Senators or Governor?

Who knows, maybe a relative of the killer did the 23andMe thing. Or aren't there some companies doing characterizations based on DNA?

It might be useful to turn up the wick a bit, rather than just say tests take several (4-6?) weeks and then we'll see. Moo.

Last time I checked there were only a handful of labs capable of doing complex DNA testing for criminal investigations. That’s a big issue.

 

[TwoLea]

how does he know that? did he have access to the autopsies prior to them being released? do you have a link to him stating that? ty

The bodies have been released to the families. Very possible he saw the wounds for himself.

New details: Autopsy confirms all 4 University of Idaho students were murdered

The Latah County Corner provided an update Thursday afternoon that confirms all four students were stabbed to death.

www.google.com

 

[ishouldbeworking]

Hello everyone, I hope you don't mind yet another new member chime in with their theories. So to be clear this is entirely IMO or MOO!

<modsnip >

Lastly, as someone who recently graduated from university I have heard several stories of friends waking up to find a homeless/transient passed out on their couch or front porch. They simply just stumbled into their house for a place to sleep out of the cold because the front door was unlocked. And not to stereotype but I could imagine an older homeless man carrying that type of knife on him for various reasons (food, self protection, etc.). So I guess that's the theory I'm going with. An older, likely mentally-ill, transient who was drunk or on drugs found his way into the house. Maybe Ethan awoke and confronted him and he pulled a knife out and went crazy. College towns seem to unfortunately be popular among that type of person. I lost count of the number of homeless people I would see sleeping in the library or harassing people for money around campus.

I went to a school where the population was mostly university-related w lots of partying and greek life (UF in Gainesville) a few years ago and while I 100% can attest of the stories of houseless or transient people coming into homes, it's 1. actually not THAT common and 2. not realistic given the facts we know.

I think this is a harmful take that further fuels the prejudice of houseless and mentally Ill folks. I will further state the booking and arrests/people in jail in Moscow are less than 30 and easily traced. so I will just state that this isn't a great take.

the person or persons who did this were most likely calculated, purposeful and sober (and probably closer to the demo of the unfortunate victims)