ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

[human]

Is anyone familiar with how the students gain access to the house, is there a key/code/card? Sorry if it's been discussed before but the threads have moved very fast.

Code lock on front door

 

[drmrgrl]

IMO the perp is not having a hard time at all. They are probably still "high" from. the act. I would not be surprised if the perp is actually walking around with a smile on their face. If anything I would be looking for someone who is generally in an unhappy/sad state, but now has good spirits.
I believe the perp is 30-45, not ex military, and a job that involves being outdoors and may travel for work.
I believe this was an organized killer. I think nothing stands out about the perp. Easily fits in with others and has a social circle, not a loner but not outgoing personality wise.
All just my thoughts. I really don't think they are a homeless, addict, loner creepy person. The longer there is no POI just reinforces my opinions.

Might be a temporary “euphoria” -when the dust settles…… and if it dawns on him later on…..
The perp chose a permanent solution to a temporary problem indicative of immaturity. He might not admit it, but he is going to feel guilty later on-this guy is going to be playing “cover-up” the rest of his life.

 

[Centaurus]

Maybe there is a stalker. More likely this is due to Mark Furhman and his unverified rumor. Imo.

This is latest info I could find on that:

Moscow Police: No evidence to suggest U of I murder victim had a stalker

Moscow investigators received information that Kaylee Goncalves was being stalked, but "have not been able to verify or identify a stalker."

www.krem.com

"KREM 2 will be attending the conference to bring you the latest updates on the case. You can watch the conference live on KREM.com, KREM 2+ and on the KREM YouTube.com channel.
On the eve of the press conference, MPD sent a release stating investigators have 'looked extensively into claims" that one of the victims, Kaylee Goncalves, may have been a victim of stalking. MPD said they have looked into hundreds of pieces of information but "have not been able to verify or identify a stalker'."

 

[Sandvol]

No comments there.
Ethan was a big athletic young man. The killer felt he could kill him.

A strong , buff killer?

Not necessarily a strong buff type, but maybe a big guy. For instance, Dennis Rader was a big guy. Psychopaths have an elevated view of themselves.

 

[positive]

I wonder if that assumption/theory is circulating because of E's parents initially saying he'd been found in the hallway, and I suppose naturally then assuming that whatever alerted E also alerted X, so she was awake to fight back when the killet went into her room. It's chilling to even contemplate.

I don't believe she fought back. I believe she was frozen in fear and raised her arms to protect herself. JMO
Defensive wounds does not equal fighting back.
I have not heard LE say there were any signs of a struggle. I have only heard the father make statements like that. If I missed something about LE saying anything about a struggle or someone putting up a fight can someone please link me the info? TIA. JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

My theory hasn’t changed much. I think there was an immediacy to this crime. My guess is that the four victims were in a common area after coming home. I think the killer came by while they were all together. I think a nasty argument ensued.

It could have simply been generated by alcohol or maybe the killer arrived angry…maybe from something that occured at the bar or at the frat party…or maybe because of the break-up. Kaylee’s sister said she was a ’fighter’ ‘defender’ of those she cared about…so she might have even inserted herself into an argument that had nothing to do with her. I think the killer was told to leave or just stormed out, furious. If he left by the sliding door, maybe no one remembered to lock it again after this blow-up.

At this point, they all go to their respective rooms. Maybe Kaylee was staying in Maddie’s room if she already had moved out. Regardless, they were together and started repeatedly calling the ex. Maybe because they wanted to tell him what hsppened, maybe he knew ‘the visitor’, maybe they wanted advice, or if he was the one they argued with, to smooth it over because words went too far. In any event, the calls were not answered.

I think the Killer went back and got the knife and returned absolutely furious with those four. He had no isdues with the other two roommates. My guess…He took out Ethan first because he was the only one who could stop him. It may have been X in the hallway because she might have gotten out of bed and tried to getaway. But she did not get far.

Then he went upstairs.

This is all guesswork, and as I said…could be any number of individuals. But I think whatever motivated the killer came to a head that night.

 

[redcedarblues]

the only "payoff" for this person was the sense of power in killing- no overt sex, no robbery. That is why I do not think this is more than one person- what relationship would two people doing this have? I think an "accomplice" would have to practically be a hostage to go along. The person has to be able to sneak home and clean up unless the person has a fresh deer on his/her car and can pretend any human blood stains were part of that IMO. I also do not see the person wearing a coverall unless the person has some lab or medical or construction/painting background in which case the person is really odd and has a split (normal) life and abnormal (savage obsession) life. I keep thinking of Delphi- still do not understand the arrested guy's motivation and I probably never will. IMO.

I agree that the two people theory is much weaker. There is a psychological disorder " folie a deux" where two people share a delusion but that is very rare. perhaps one was feeling rejected by one girl and the other by another girl so they teamed up. Or two people felt rejected by that social group overlap. But all of that just leads to more potential for mistakes, leaks, cold feet, guilt and is overall less likely

 

[Fleabag]

Someone posted this story on a different site, but these murders are eerily similar to the the women that were murdered in Napa in 2007. The killer ended up being someone very close to the women.

Nightmare in Napa

This is eerily chilling. I’m not sure it has been considered but if it was like these Napa killings where the target was competition of the perps gf— meaning he killed his now wife’s BFF because they got so much attention from her and he wanted it all. In this case his target was the BFF and the 2nd girl was collateral damage.
I haven’t heard if the two survivors in Idaho had SO or recent breakups. And it could even be peripheral as in the Napa murder— it was the BF/husband of someone who did not live in the house- a longtime friend of the victim. So that really broadens the circle.

One last thought, after a year, it was the DNA on the cigarette that sealed it because there was the perps blood at the scene. I think we will have the same here. But what actually made him turn himself in was when LE publicized that they had the DNA from the cigarette and blood in the house that matched—— I think he knew it was a matter of time before they caught him so he was in a panic.

Very interesting article and I also believe this case will be similar- not random. Someone in one of the concentric circles around one of the 5 roommates- could even be around one of the surviving roommates.

 

[redcedarblues]

True about determining the potential use of different knives. It's also hard to come across someone who shares such interests but two killers does make it easier to stab four people without the ones on the other floor becoming aware. We also need to take into account we don't actually know how drunk everyone was that night. Sleeping when you're drunk and waking up to something like this, would likely have caused a moment of confusion and a somewhat delayed reaction.

Good point. We still don't know the state of E and X before returning home. And I believe at least one of the girls seemed intoxicated at the food truck. If the killer(s) was watching he would have seen this and it would make them more vulnerable

 

[Gypsy Road]

As a person who has at times imbibe too much, a tornado wouldn't wake a someone who is plastered.

This is so true. And believe it or not, there are some people who can sleep through almost anything while intoxicated or not intoxicated. When I was younger I did sleep through many terrible thunder and lightning storms here on unstable gulf coast and even a tornado going over our house - and I was totally sober. Some people are just very very deep sleepers. My husband was always floored when I didn’t wake up to such commotion outside. I think the surviving roommates being on the bottom floor, away from the goings on on the above floors, possibly intoxicated, fast asleep - possibly in the Rem cycle of sleeping — is totally plausible. They must feel so horrified, scared, guilty, and lucky at the same time. I hope both of them have huge support systems, people around them they love and who will protect them, and are getting some psych help if needed. My heart goes out to them.

 

[drmrgrl]

My theory hasn’t changed much. I think there was an immediacy to this crime. My guess is that the four victims were in a common area after coming home. I think the killer came by while they were all together. I think a nasty argument ensued.

It could have simply been generated by alcohol or maybe the killer arrived angry…maybe from something that occured at the bar or at the frat party…or maybe because of the break-up. Kaylee’s sister said she was a ’fighter’ ‘defender’ of those she cared about…so she might have even inserted herself into an argument that had nothing to do with her. I think the killer was told to leave or just stormed out, furious. If he left by the sliding door, maybe no one remembered to lock it again after this blow-up.

At this point, they all go to their respective rooms. Maybe Kaylee was staying in Maddie’s room if she already had moved out. Regardless, they were together and started repeatedly calling the ex. Maybe because they wanted to tell him what hsppened, maybe he knew ‘the visitor’, maybe they wanted advice, or if he was the one they argued with, to smooth it over because words went too far. In any event, the calls were not answered.

I think the Killer went back and got the knife and returned absolutely furious with those four. He had no isdues with the other two roommates. My guess…He took out Ethan first because he was the only one who could stop him. It may have been X in the hallway because she might have gotten out of bed and tried to getaway. But she did not get far.

Then he went upstairs.

This is all guesswork, and as I said…could be any number of individuals. But I think whatever motivated the killer came to a head that night.

Yes

 

[UKUS]

WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

Ok - these thoughts forced me of bed to come and share a theory....all MOO (consciously trying to avoid breaking any TOS )

Two big questions festering for me

1. What made this person do this?
2. Why kill more than just your target

#1 - There had to be a trigger. What circumstances were coming to a "head"?

1. Kaylee graduating early......planning on backpacking in Europe in January
2. Kaylee accepting an awesome, full-time, grown-up job across the country
3. Kaylee being in town to show off her car (opportunity and possible anger over concrete symbol she's moving on - literally and figuratively)

#2 - If Kaylee was the target, why kill the other 3?

1. BECAUSE KILLING just KAYLEE extremely narrows possible motives
2. The arrow will be squarely pointed at ONE probable person
3. Killing all 4 makes getting the WHY/MOTIVE so much harder/confusing
4. Because Kaylee was just in town for the weekend.....this was the perfect time to attack. Targeting her alone (say when she's back at home for the holidays) again makes the suspect pool way too small. What better place than school/campus where there are maybe a hundred possibilites.
5. Still possible X & E were collateral damage - but as they had been dating a shorter amount of time:
   1. maybe their relationship has an extended "honeymoon" phase and they are very affectionate compared to "other relationships
   2. maybe they've kinda talked/said out loud "we plan to be together for ever" which could be taken as "in your face"....or anger because they have what the perp wants and can't have

I know LE has said the "ex" is cleared, but there could be multiple strategies in play here

1. So potential perp relaxes/puts guard down
2. Watching the perp and waiting might lead to a slip-up that ultimately becomes evidence/proof

#3 - The oulier is Kaylee's family's overall view of who DIDN'T do this

1. We all know at this age, the p's don't always know EXACTLY what's in your head and heart
2. Because the family loves your BF - you don't really tell them every thought or intention to avoid trying to be swayed in a certain direction
3. Kaylee's mom talked about what she imagined would have been her daughter's FUTURE/EVENTUALLY - but that wasn't going to stop Kaylee from traveling for a month nor accepting a job and moving

All of the above makes perfect sense to me, but could also still point to someone with an intense crush on her who knows her well. I agree 100% that the timing of K being back in town briefly is key to the crime. Either she was the primary target or her return put her or one of the friends on the radar of the murderer.

With their apparent large circle of friends/acquaintances someone in their circle could've harbored a quiet, raging unrequited crush and seeing her moving on permanently could be a trigger (also takes us back to restaurant colleague/customer theory). Because for this person her departure would be permanent and maybe destabilizing. Doesn't perhaps explain the harbored rage of the attack though....

We're not allowed to speculate about someone not named as a POI but in the larger picture it would be helpful to know if ex had exciting prospects lined up as well. Also if K had made plans to see him while back for the brief visit.

Either way since separations aren't as fixed as even pre-Covid times, with impressive options for spontaneous mobility - for work, travel, etc. ex may not have seen her moving on as such a threat. He'd at least have the assurance they'd still be in touch in some way. An aggrieved and obsessed crush would not have had this option.

And her parents didn't see a temporary separation for travel and new job as a dealbreaker for the would-be couple. As seniors they all knew change was on the horizon. Still, a job speaks to something more permanent than simply going to Europe for a visit. And she was doing all this early...
Do we know the city of her TX job?

 

[wasnt_me]

The reason the two were spared is the main reason I believe the attacker did not know the group personally as he was unfamiliar with the unconventional layout of the house. Anyone who had visited the house before (at a party etc) would have known that floor had additional bedrooms.

It also raises the question whether the attacker arrived on the scene after the first group had retired to their bedrooms, so assumed there were only four residents living in the house. Because the two girls had stopped at the food truck to get a takeaway before going home, and that the two pairs had attended different events that night, they could have spent at least some time in the kitchen eating and talking before bed. The kitchen has a large glass sliding door with no curtain and is direct line of sight from the trees behind the house. I think it's possible the perp left assuming he had killed everyone in the house and only in the news the following day, realise there were two survivors.

I can't help but think that if someone is breaking into a house, they take a look at the house, noting it's entrances and exits. Normally, houses have a front door, and the closest thing I see to a front door is downstairs -- where the parking is. Is there another door somewhere that looks like a front door? There are also windows there. I don't know if the curtains were closed, but maybe the killer could look into the curtains and see what's downstairs. IDK.

I'm asking because I don't understand why the killer wouldn't know about the downstairs area, what was in it, and how to access it. From looking at the house, it's quite clear to me that it's three stories.

The house reminds me of the one Amanda knox lived in -- except the downstairs area was totally cut off. In this house in ID, it seems like there is an open staircase going down to the first floor. IDK why the killer would ignore it and not even look down there -- unless when you get to the bottom, it is a locked door.

1122 King Rd, Moscow, ID 83843 | Zillow

1122 King Rd, Moscow ID, is a Single Family home that contains 3120 sq ft.It contains 6 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $488,400, which has increased by $57,116 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $3,599/mo, which has decreased by...

www.zillow.com

 

[drmrgrl]

The perp “won” for now…but not in the long run. When I first heard about this crime, my very first thought was someone “ in the area” perhaps a neighbor or someone geographically close to the victims.I have seen videos of the back and side of the residence and I have noticed that other houses are in close proximity to the scene. That really stands out for me.

 

[Madmea1624]

Imagine working At That restaurant, waitresses make money on tips which means being extra nice and treating your customers like They’re extra special, Then Add An unstable person Who starts to believe one of the girls actually is paying extra attention to only him, You can play out the rest using your imagination but in short over a period of a few weeks and many generous tips as his fascination grows He’s infatuated with one of them and Makes His move and Is Soundly rejected! He’s devistated! His sadness turns to anger, then rage He begins stalking her constantly watches her house watches her at work And decides if He can’t have Her Then She Has To Die! And He plans it All out! … This Is How I See It… Just can’t figure out why the 2 girls Were spared.. This is just my opinion..Forensics Will solved This And Well Find out the real truth, Let’s Hear everyone’s motive, With so much speculation someone Is sure to get it right…

Perhaps they entered through the sliding glass door in the kitchen on the 2nd floor, went to Ethan & Xanas room then went up the steps to Kaylee & Madison’s bedrooms not realizing that there was downstairs bedrooms or he was startled by the dog or 1 or more of the victims fighting back and went out the same sliding door not realizing that there were downstairs bedrooms or he just said I’m outta here. That’s saying he didn’t know the house layout. If he did then it would have to be a targeted attack against those 4 skipping the other 2 housemates or perhaps he was to startled to finish them all off. It’s also plausible that Ethan & Xana were killed first bc they got home earlier then Kayla & Madison it would explain why those 2 were not awakened by the commotion above them in the girls 3rd floor bedrooms & the 2 girls on the 1st floor would not hear anything on the 3rd floor & they probably would not have heard anything from Ethan & Xanas room bc their room sits in the back of the house while the first floor bedrooms are in the front of the house. I also think that the killer lock the doors behind him so there could be no entry gained from the outside of the bedroom to delay them being found slain, because why else would you call friends instead of 911 to come help? Probably because they were locked out and that’s why it was reported as an unconscious person and not a bloodbath.

 

[NoseyRecluse]

I’ve seen some people mention crime of passion.
Crimes of passion are a phrase used to mitigate a 2nd degree murder down to manslaughter. Typically these crimes involve heat of the moment with no time to cool down. LE has stated this was a targeted attack, typically meaning that it was premeditated with malice aforethought. Therefore, imho from what has been released, this was probably not a crime of passion.

My issue with "heat of the moment" is the type of knife used. It wasn't a run of the mill steak knife from the silverware drawer. Did they bring it with them, into the house (which would show going there with intent, in my opinion)? Or did one of the residents own it, and they picked it up in the house? MOO.

 

[Armchair PI]

This seems a bit extreme for a very first crime. Wouldn't this perpetrator have a record or at least have done some things prior to this like burglary, peeping tom etc. whether they got caught or not? I realize people are wired differently. I would be a nervous wreck attempting to steal a pack of gum from the gas station. I couldn't imagine something like this.

 

[Sandvol]

Mods and administrators need a facts page where verifiable facts can be listed. These are the only verified facts. For instance: A crime occurred in the early morning hours of November 13th in Moscow, ID, at 1120 King Rd.; four roommates were killed (coroner estimates between 3-4 am, two roommates were not attacked and ruled out as suspects; Kaylee and Maddie were videoed at Food Truck at 1:40 am and given a ride home by a private party who has been ruled out as a suspect, Xana and Ethan were seen at fraternity party around 9 pm on the 12th, a surviving roommate's phone was used to call police at 11:58 am, the four victims were murdered by stabbing, at least one of the victims had apparent defensive wounds, the house is a six-bedroom, three-story house, the police said there was no sign of forceable entry, the police were dispatched to the scene to investigate an "unconscious person," and discovered the crime, Ethan, Xana's boyfriend, didn't live at the house, the FBI and State Police have been called in to assist, Kaylee's sister has been assisting police with uncovering some of the evidence like the Food Truck video. What other verifiable facts do we have?

 

[Gypsy Road]

This thread moves so fast so forgive me, but I am so puzzled about the lack of security cameras or ring cameras. Did the apartment building next door have any security cameras? Is it a large complex? For all we know the perp could have lived in that complex and had been spying on the house for a long while. I hope to goodness the police have more than what they are telling us and are close to closing in on the perp.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

One major question I have is whether or not the doors to the victims’ bedrooms were locked prior to attacks—if locked, did the killer know who to expect in each bedroom? Or was it random?