Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[Yemelyan]

There are sites where people can buy controlled substances on the Internet. True controlled substances, only in unlimited amounts and without doctor’s prescriptions. While they might contain real products, the buyers could potentially use them indiscriminately, OD and die. Does it fall under “tampering”?

No.

Tampering is deliberately altering products or goods with the intent of harming people. Think of someone mixing metal shavings into a food product that is sold by a grocery store or finding a way to mix cyanide into an over the counter medicine that is then bought by consumers. Your example would only be tampering if, after purchasing said controlled substances the buyer mixed them, unknown to customers, into a product like Tylenol or toothpaste, for example, where no one expected it to be.

I think the question you're asking is if someone bought "black market" codeine, for example, and someone took it and overdosed and died, did the person who provided the drug "tamper" with codeine? I'd say no, they just allowed someone to indiscriminately use a dangerous substance that they should not have been in possession of. I think this would be charged under drug laws, not tampering laws. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I do think she will release it this week, but I’ll still answer a question with a question: Will the families be allowed to see it first, if they have not already? Same with any other sensitive situations and people? I know the decision isn’t about what the families want but I do hope anyone who needs time and support ahead of the release can have it — at least a day.

Time and support? The families have heard all of the audio. I can't imagine anything could be worse than that. I don't know how they even lived through that horror. But they did. And if they can handle that, surely anyone else could be expected to deal with the release of the PCA?? MOO

 

[photographer4]

I am re-reading the RL warrant and have realized something!

Police have told us no one has it right - when referring to theories etc online.

I think this theory may make sense:

The police said they have a 43 second video of the suspect as they are walking on the Monon High Bridge Trail. They said it sounds like he is telling them to leave the trail and enter the woods below.

I’d like to know where on the trail he spoke to the kids and directed them down the hill. I think they could have decided NOT to go back across the bridge - maybe too scary? Did they decide on their own to cross the creek by chance and find a trail going back to meet LG’s dad on their own? Once they were out of sight of anyone, is this when BG told them DTH?

I am asking because the video of the man walking is super short in length. He could have been following them and they noticed and were creeped out so didn’t want to pass him going back?

LE said they were in a bowl shaped area near the edge of the creek on RL’s property. One said he could stand on the ridge and look down and see them there.

How do we get the short walking video? I wonder if LG was taking photos of AW on the bridge and maybe she had live frames on? I actually had to shut the feature off my phone because it’s annoying to me. But basically in live mode a still shot captures movement in the 1.5 seconds before and after you snap a photo.

Is it possible she took a Live Photo and that’s NOT the 43 second video they’re talking about that captures his voice at all!?

The warrant I referenced is here:

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Info on Live Photo feature of iPhone is here:

Take and edit Live Photos - Apple Support

Record moments in movement and sound with Live Photos.

support.apple.com

 

[Yemelyan]

I am re-reading the RL warrant and have realized something!

Police have told us no one has it right - when referring to theories etc online.

I think this theory may make sense:

The police said they have a 43 second video of the suspect as they are walking on the Monon High Bridge Trail. They said it sounds like he is telling them to leave the trail and enter the woods below.

I’d like to know where on the trail he spoke to the kids and directed them down the hill. I think they could have decided NOT to go back across the bridge - maybe too scary? Did they decide on their own to cross the creek by chance and find a trail going back to meet LG’s dad on their own? Once they were out of sight of anyone, is this when BG told them DTH?

I am asking because the video of the man walking is super short in length. He could have been following them and they noticed and were creeped out so didn’t want to pass him going back?

LE said they were in a bowl shaped area near the edge of the creek on RL’s property. One said he could stand on the ridge and look down and see them there.

How do we get the short walking video? I wonder if LG was taking photos of AW on the bridge and maybe she had live frames on? I actually had to shut the feature off my phone because it’s annoying to me. But basically in live mode a still shot captures movement in the 1.5 seconds before and after you snap a photo.

Is it possible she took a Live Photo and that’s NOT the 43 second video they’re talking about that captures his voice at all!?

The warrant I referenced is here:

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Info on Live Photo feature of iPhone is here:

Take and edit Live Photos - Apple Support

Record moments in movement and sound with Live Photos.

support.apple.com

Not sure if this answers your question but LE have told us where "Down the hill" was said:

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

 

[photographer4]

Not sure if this answers your question but LE have told us where "Down the hill" was said:

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

Thanks. I am not super familiar with area so I understand they said the south end of the bridge. But where the bodies were found, on the opposite side of the creek - could that still be considered the south end of the bridge?

I was thinking about LG’s sneaker that was found before the bodies were found as well though and unsure why it was found where it was. Hope we learn more soon.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thanks. I am not super familiar with area so I understand they said the south end of the bridge. But where the bodies were found, on the opposite side of the creek - could that still be considered the south end of the bridge?

I was thinking about LG’s sneaker that was found before the bodies were found as well though and unsure why it was found where it was. Hope we learn more soon.

IMO, no - the crime scene on the opposite side of the creek is supposedly (the exact distance has been debated on these threads many times) about a half-mile upstream from the bridge and shows a direction of movement northwards from the south end of the bridge towards the cemetery and the road W 300N. It's far enough and moving north in such a fashion that I wouldn't still call it the south end of the bridge. MOO I think when LE said "south end of the High Bridge," the meaning was that the victims and perpetrator were actually at the south end of the bridge. Probably on the bridge or very close to it.

 

[photographer4]

IMO, no - the crime scene on the opposite side of the creek is supposedly (the exact distance has been debated on these threads many times) about a half-mile upstream from the bridge and shows a direction of movement northwards from the south end of the bridge towards the cemetery and the road W 300N. It's far enough and moving north in such a fashion that I wouldn't still call it the south end of the bridge. MOO I think when LE said "south end of the High Bridge," the meaning was that the victims and perpetrator were actually at the south end of the bridge. Probably on the bridge or very close to it.

Really interesting because the RL warrant I referenced at the link above actually does not say the audio was captured at the south end at all. What it says is the “…development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG’s phone where the suspect follows the victims as they walk along Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video the suspect speaks to the victims. It sounds as though he is directing them to leave the trail they were on and enter the woods below.”

I suspect that LG made a Live Photo of AW on the bridge and that’s why the clip of the man walking is so short. There isn’t more of it to show us. I imagine maybe then she put the phone in pocket or wherever and the audio may be a different clip / even an actual video or audio recording vs just a Live Photo that may have been taken a bit later on.

Totally only a theory. Nothing is fact aside the quote from the RL warrant above. mOOOo

 

[Boxer]

Thanks. I am not super familiar with area so I understand they said the south end of the bridge. But where the bodies were found, on the opposite side of the creek - could that still be considered the south end of the bridge?

I was thinking about LG’s sneaker that was found before the bodies were found as well though and unsure why it was found where it was. Hope we learn more soon.

The place they were found was on the north bank of Deer Creek, but closer to the south abutment. So I guess you could say say the were found near the south end of the bridge.

 

[Bignuts45]

Really interesting because the RL warrant I referenced at the link above actually does not say the audio was captured at the south end at all. What it says is the “…development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG’s phone where the suspect follows the victims as they walk along Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video the suspect speaks to the victims. It sounds as though he is directing them to leave the trail they were on and enter the woods below.”

I suspect that LG made a Live Photo of AW on the bridge and that’s why the clip of the man walking is so short. There isn’t more of it to show us. I imagine maybe then she put the phone in pocket or wherever and the audio may be a different clip / even an actual video or audio recording vs just a Live Photo that may have been taken a bit later on.

Totally only a theory. Nothing is fact aside the quote from the RL warrant above. mOOOo

She had an IPhone 4 that wasn’t a feature for that phone.

 

[Boxer]

She had an IPhone 4 that wasn’t a feature for that phone.

Never thought of this before. Libby had a iPhone 4, but she was using her grandma’s phone. was the borrowed phone an iPhone 4?

 

[5W's]

I am re-reading the RL warrant and have realized something!

Police have told us no one has it right - when referring to theories etc online.

I think this theory may make sense:

The police said they have a 43 second video of the suspect as they are walking on the Monon High Bridge Trail. They said it sounds like he is telling them to leave the trail and enter the woods below.

I’d like to know where on the trail he spoke to the kids and directed them down the hill. I think they could have decided NOT to go back across the bridge - maybe too scary? Did they decide on their own to cross the creek by chance and find a trail going back to meet LG’s dad on their own? Once they were out of sight of anyone, is this when BG told them DTH?

I am asking because the video of the man walking is super short in length. He could have been following them and they noticed and were creeped out so didn’t want to pass him going back?

LE said they were in a bowl shaped area near the edge of the creek on RL’s property. One said he could stand on the ridge and look down and see them there.

How do we get the short walking video? I wonder if LG was taking photos of AW on the bridge and maybe she had live frames on? I actually had to shut the feature off my phone because it’s annoying to me. But basically in live mode a still shot captures movement in the 1.5 seconds before and after you snap a photo.

Is it possible she took a Live Photo and that’s NOT the 43 second video they’re talking about that captures his voice at all!?

The warrant I referenced is here:

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Info on Live Photo feature of iPhone is here:

Take and edit Live Photos - Apple Support

Record moments in movement and sound with Live Photos.

support.apple.com

Maybe that's why the clip she took was so short. I always wondered why it was so short. Poor girl probably had to shut it down instead of being able to use the feature again because it was too dangerous for the girls. So scary for them. That clip she took and with what you have mentioned about the feature for me just shows how perilous it was for the girls and how they felt when the clip was taken. If the feature you mentioned operates this way IMO it shows what the kids were feeling when BG said that.

 

[waterslyd]

bbm
Problem would be: The BG didn't shout "GDTH", but he spoke. Who should have heard him beneath the bridge/on the hill/down the hill? Only if BG had some "talking device" around his head, then maybe someone could have heard him except the girls.

I thought I read that RL was on probation for a DUI and had a motive to lie because he was not supposed to be driving that day. That sounds plausible.

 

[asyousay]

I thought I read that RL was on probation for a DUI and had a motive to lie because he was not supposed to be driving that day. That sounds plausible.

He was and that’s why he lied. Just some can’t let him go as a suspect it would seem moo

I can not understand the obsession with wanting to tarnish a dead man’s name. It’s mind boggling when 1 man has been arrested and charged and yet an innocent man still can’t escape the comments.


Imo

 

[getthefax]

Investigators sent an email to Judge Diener, McLeland and the State court administrators to get more answers about the arrest of RA. Judge Diener copied 13 News on an email to State court administrators.

View attachment 383109View attachment 383110View attachment 383111
At 1:49

This sounds like perfectly sound reasoning. Good on him for taking a pass.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Really interesting because the RL warrant I referenced at the link above actually does not say the audio was captured at the south end at all. What it says is the “…development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG’s phone where the suspect follows the victims as they walk along Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video the suspect speaks to the victims. It sounds as though he is directing them to leave the trail they were on and enter the woods below.”

I suspect that LG made a Live Photo of AW on the bridge and that’s why the clip of the man walking is so short. There isn’t more of it to show us. I imagine maybe then she put the phone in pocket or wherever and the audio may be a different clip / even an actual video or audio recording vs just a Live Photo that may have been taken a bit later on.

Totally only a theory. Nothing is fact aside the quote from the RL warrant above. mOOOo

The part I bolded always jumps out at me. Robertson undoubtedly watched the video so why didn't she say: "as they were crossing the bridge" or something similar? I know the bridge is considered part of the trail but it's always been such a point that they were on the bridge, it just seems strange to me that she didn't say it.

 

[MissUnderstood]

When this arrest was made it felt like such a relief that finally there may be some form of justice. We know as much as we did before the arrest apart from the info that RA was spoken to on the day of the murders and said he was on the bridge. I find it strange there is nothing being said apart from the statements that nothing can be said. No wonder there is so much speculation.

 

[newredtabby]

He was and that’s why he lied. Just some can’t let him go as a suspect it would seem moo

I can not understand the obsession with wanting to tarnish a dead man’s name. It’s mind boggling when 1 man has been arrested and charged and yet an innocent man still can’t escape the comments.


Imo

Respectfully, we don't know why RL lied. I see no obsession on this board about RL being potentially involved. The RL search warrant is the strongest official evidence (we know of) about someone's potential involvement in the murders, and RL did plenty to tarnish his own reputation. The fact that he is now dead changes nothing. Dying doesn't change the choices one made in life.

I don't personally believe RL was involved, but there is no need to invalidate the opinions of others who believe he was or may have been.

 

[Marzipan]

Time and support? The families have heard all of the audio. I can't imagine anything could be worse than that. I don't know how they even lived through that horror. But they did. And if they can handle that, surely anyone else could be expected to deal with the release of the PCA?? MOO

Well, I may not have explained my thoughts well while being lazy and typing on my phone. I can think of some things that may be worse to learn, or unexpected to learn, than what was in the audio. But also reasons why people affected other than victim families may need one day to learn info, process, or plan before the entire world starts dissecting the info that has been kept for weeks.
But it should be released and I expect it will.
Please keep in mind I claim zero experience or expertise in these matters. Everything I know is from all of you much more knowledgeable people here. It’s been a real education here over the years, following just one or two cases at a time, and I know I will learn more about so many topics as this case moves forward. Thank you, Websleuths!

Edited for embarrassing apostrophe error.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Respectfully, we don't know why RL lied. I see no obsession on this board about RL being potentially involved. The RL search warrant is the strongest official evidence (we know of) about someone's potential involvement in the murders, and RL did plenty to tarnish his own reputation. The fact that he is now dead changes nothing. Dying doesn't change the choices one made in life.

I don't personally believe RL was involved, but there is no need to invalidate the opinions of others who believe he was or may have been.

Yes. If you have tarnished your reputation over time, and two teenage girls are found murdered on or near your property, there is going to be some significant scrutiny.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I can't make up my mind as to whether the reason this whole thing has dragged on for so long is down to cataclysmic police incompetence or an off the scale police cover up?

Those are the only 2 options you're considering?