Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[Gemmie]

Am I correct in understanding his wife was interviewed/questioned at the time following RA’s statement? Or was this post-arrest?

It was pre-arrest.

Allen was taken into custody Oct. 26 and was formally charged for the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German on Oct. 28. Judge orders release of redacted court docs in arrest of Richard Allen for Delphi murders.

KA talked to them on 10/13:



Pg 5 (of 8): Adobe Acrobat

 

[bigredkangaroo]

Ok such incompetence in a tiny local police force, fine, but the FBI and US Marshal Service were also involved in the investigation. What the heck did they do exactly??!!

I completely agree with this sentiment. I have no idea. I'm just spit balling. You bring up a very good point.

What happens when local, small town, law enforcement ask for big time help? Does federal take over completely like on TV? Maybe. I have no idea. Do some people on the small town law enforcement team resent it and work against it? No idea. Do some federal LE get arrogant and maybe not do their best work? Maybe. Does everyone work together at maximum efficiency? I've never seen that in any industry or job. Is a case so out of left field that no one knew where it was going? Maybe, to me anyway, more likely than some other options.

With every major development, everything just seems to go further down the rabbit hole. It's just so damn weird.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

My bad, the IMEI wasn’t changed. An MEID number is basically the same thing but for CDMA carriers (Verizon, Sprint and US Cellular in the US). A phone with an MEID doesn’t use a SIM card. You learn something every day.

 

[oviedo]

I think a bullet from RA's gun at the crime scene is a pretty big smoking gun. He ADMITS he's on the bridge at the time the girls were murdered. No other man fitting the description of the guy in Libby's video is seen during or after the time of the murders. RA says he leaves after the murders.

The defense needs to prove reasonable doubt. Not any possible doubt. Is it reasonable that even though a guy matching the description from the video who's bullet was found at the scene admits he was on the bridge that day, some other mystery guy did it? I don't know how reasonable that doubt is.

My only question is why wasn't someone who admitted to being at the crime scene and looks like the guy in the freakin' video investigated more seriously in 2017? That's unfortunately where the defense is: what tf was everyone doing all these years?

Honestly having worked in government for many years and more recently -the legal field - I think the report from 2017 simply got lost in the mound of paperwork and tips- I would love to know their filing system and how this Initial report was overlooked - and exactly what led them to go back and look again- I can’t help but wonder about the events of the KK arrest…
JMO

 

[TL4S]

So RA is muddy and bloody. I wonder if he took off his coat and pants before he got into the car. If it was planned, maybe he had a trash bag covering his seat, or stuffed his dirty clothes into a bag and changed into new ones he'd brought along. There might not be blood evidence all over his car. Who knows.

 

[TL4S]

My bad, the IMEI wasn’t changed. An MEID number is basically the same thing but for CDMA carriers (Verizon, Sprint and US Cellular in the US). A phone with an MEID doesn’t use a SIM card. You learn something every day.

I don't understand that part of the PCA. Was there something suspicious about his phone, or not?

 

[photographer4]

I don't really know. Maybe she did know but washed the clothing and just decided to believe him even after he admitted to being on the bridge.

What would his explanation have been for muddy and bloody clothes do you think then? I cannot fathom what one would have come up with? I really cannot?

 

[LammyTheRobot]

I don't understand that part of the PCA. Was there something suspicious about his phone, or not?

No, not according to that document.

 

[zencompass]

I was just reading about this technology recently -- it def seems highly effective, but is it not also quite destructive of the materials it saturates and draws DNA from?

I seem to recall that in at least one case -- maybe West Memphis 3? -- it was ruled out as a means for retrieving DNA because it was "consumptive" in its mechanism of action.

Dear @scapa,

Thank you for your information and insightful posts! I always learn something from them.

Yes, M-Vac can be destructive and I recall reading that in the WP3 case.

It is not always destructive - depending on how large the test sample is. But yes, you are right - it certainly can be.

With R.A.'s car, I think that luminol will hit up quite a few areas with microscopic-sized blood

The testing of those areas will determine the DNA is from Libby and/or Abby.

I truly believe that the girls' DNA found in R.A's car will provide a solid case.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Years ago DC said, the public would wonder and be very surprised about the immense stuff, police had collected and investigated (other wording). I don't notice it yet.

Oh no, I’m surprised at what LE collected in this case - but not in the way DC suggested we would be! I’m surprised they had all this evidence pointing to someone specific and for whatever reason, they neglected to bother going after him until Oct 2022!

 

[Hatch]

Honestly having worked in government for many years and more recently -the legal field - I think the report from 2017 simply got lost in the mound of paperwork and tips- I would love to know their filing system and how this Initial report was overlooked - and exactly what led them to go back and look again- I can’t help but wonder about the events of the KK arrest…
JMO

I agree KK arrest sealed the deal, IMO he may have killed the girls because they had figured out who he was from communicating with him on the Anthony Shots
account, he may have intended to kill Libby so he would not be outed and Abby was a victim of happenstance. JMHO and a uneducated guess.
edited to add a name

 

[Interested_Party]

I’m struggling to find literature on the reliability of extractor marks as a means of identification (re unspent ammunition) i.e., how subjective might this be/is it likely to be another piece of circumstantial evidence rather than objective forensic evidence…

 

[kittythehare]

How much time exactly did he spend with the victims?

 

[twall]

Aine and Kevin from the Murder Sheet are on Vinnie's Court TV show tonight. Watching on DVR. Repeats at 10pm est.

 

[Interested_Party]

How much time exactly did he spend with the victims?

The PCA suggests a timeframe of 2:13pm to 3:57pm.

 

[LeBlack]

What would his explanation have been for muddy and bloody clothes do you think then? I cannot fathom what one would have come up with? I really cannot?

Deny it was him? or bloody nose and slipped by the creek?

MOO

 

[Vpq]

I think that you need to have both the unspent shell and the gun in order to conduct a forensic match.

They got the gun in the search

 

[kittythehare]

The PCA suggests a timeframe of 2:13pm to 3:57pm.

I read it and enlarged it and I was sure I was getting it wrong..
Thanks.
It's a very short timeframe to strip and kill by means other than a gun.
Quite startling.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23321732/probable-cause-affidavit-filed.pdf

 

[slanda]

I don't see it either. The only possible thing I can think of is if they are actually entertaining the idea that someone else borrowed or used his gun. That's the only thing IMO that could potentially introduce another party into the scene.

But HE was ON the BRIDGE! Are we supposed to believe he was on the bridge and just coincidentally that SAME DAY one of his buddies stole his gun and left a bullet right where two girls were murdered WHILE he was ON THE BRIDGE?

I am flabbergasted. I was expecting a much more tenuous PCA based on electronic surveillance and CSAM.

He was on the bridge to “watch fish”

I can’t even believe what he said and admitted to and the fact that it seemingly appears via the affidavit that LE first identified him through a cell phone dump which identified his phone and then was interviewed and ADMITTED to being there at the same time as Abby and Libby.

Only when investigators were going back through the case did they “identify the lead” that was Allen’s interview in 2017. And he was identified as the only male there. Yikes. Nothing different changed in the 5 years and all LE seemingly had to do was ask more questions in 2017.

He then admitted to the clothes and seeing the other juveniles and even saying his gun wasn’t given to anyone else and had no explanation of how his striated bullet casing could end up 2 feet away from victim #2 (Liberty, going off of affidavit descriptions).

I’m apart of LE but also not above criticism and criticizing when it appears he fell through the cracks.

Those poor girls. I hope they’re at some peace now.

**Edited for clarification

 

[zencompass]

Well life happened and I had to skip several pages in the new thread. I hate that I did that but I am marking my spot. My thoughts right now are the PCA is just the bare bones of what LE needed for an arrest. They surely have more evidence and will probably get more. The CO that talked to RA in the beginning more than likely had very little involvement in the investigation going forward. More than likely RA approached him to cover his tracks about being there and since he said he didn’t see anything that info became lost in the stack of other information. Investigators early on may have glossed over it since I doubt the CO stated or asked what RA was wearing and did not include a description of RA. The one question I have is was the car that LE took last month black or silver? Do we know if this was the same car RA was driving in 2017. I don’t think a gun was fired during the murders. I can see why RA may not have gotten rid of the gun but surely he would get rid of his clothes. Could he be that stupid? Jmho

Dear @raja,

Excellent post!

I learn so much from your informative, insightful and greatly compassionate posts.

And.... he kept the car - which will have the girls' DNA in it.

Do you think this speaks to his arrogance that he will never be considered a suspect - so he kept everything?