Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[mrjitty]

They have PH:
Indiana Code 12-26-5-10. Preliminary hearing; introduction of physician’s statement; probable cause finding; discharge; detention pending final hearing » LawServer

Indiana Code 12-26-5-10. Preliminary hearing; introduction of physician’s statement; probable cause finding; discharge; detention pending final hearing​

Current as of: 2022 | Check for updates | Other versions
Sec. 10. (a) A physician’s statement may be introduced into evidence at the preliminary hearing held under section 9(a)(2) of this chapter without the presence of the physician.

(b) A finding of probable cause may not be entered at a preliminary hearing unless there is oral testimony:

Terms Used In Indiana Code 12-26-5-10​

• Evidence: Information presented in testimony or in documents that is used to persuade the fact finder (judge or jury) to decide the case for one side or the other.
• Preliminary hearing: A hearing where the judge decides whether there is enough evidence to make the defendant have a trial.
• Probable cause: A reasonable ground for belief that the offender violated a specific law.
• Testify: Answer questions in court.
• Testimony: Evidence presented orally by witnesses during trials or before grand juries.

(1) subject to cross-examination; and

(2) of at least one (1) witness who:
(A) has personally observed the behavior of the individual; and
(B) will testify to facts supporting a finding that there is probable cause to believe that the individual is in need of temporary or regular commitment.
(c) At the conclusion of the preliminary hearing, if the court does not find probable cause, the individual shall be immediately discharged.
(d) If the court finds at the conclusion of the preliminary hearing probable cause to believe that the individual needs temporary or regular commitment, the court shall order the detention of the individual in an appropriate facility pending a final hearing.
[Pre-1992 Revision Citation: 16-14-9.1-7(e) part.]
As added by P.L.2-1992, SEC.20.

Thanks! Will it be held in conjunction with the bail hearing then?

 

[Mellowmelly]

I can't believe he was stupid enough to walk down a road where anyone could've seen him covered in mud and blood.

 

[OverTheRhine]

He literally puts himself ON the bridge, in the same clothes at the exact time of the murders. Seen by witnesses and a ballistics match. How is this weak? Who knows what else they found.

 

[Elley Mae]

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Investigators spoke with , who stated that she was traveling East on 300 North on February
13'", 2022 and observed a male subject walking West, on the North side of300 North, awayfrom the Manon High Bridge. advised that the male subject was wearing a blue coloredjacket and bluejeans and was mudb and bloody. Shefurther stated, that it appeared he had gotten into afight. Investigators
, were able to determinefrom watching the videofrom the Hoosier Harvestore that was
traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57pan.

…

Appears he walking out of the woods, probably went up the hill and came out by cemetery and walked back to car by road.

Jmo

 

[Mellowmelly]

He literally puts himself ON the bridge, in the same clothes at the exact time of the murders. Seen by witnesses and a ballistics match. How is this weak? Who knows what else they found.

I agree and he probably told the CO he was there that day before they released the video, no way of getting out of it for him. I know it's taken LE a long time to catch up with him but better late than never. Libby has actually been the number one witness to her and Abby's murders. What a bright girl she was.

 

[asyousay]

He literally puts himself ON the bridge, in the same clothes at the exact time of the murders. Seen by witnesses and a ballistics match. How is this weak? Who knows what else they found.

And it was said in court the wife is standing by him. I just can not fathom with all the coincidences that anyone would think he was innocent.


He would have to be the most unluckiest man alive for it not to be him IMO

 

[Marzipan]

Admitting you were wearing the same clothes as the perp in the video is a pretty devastating admission.

I’m back from my short self- imposed timeout so I’m sure I missed a lot. Those clothes are so common the defense is going to mock that part mercilessly. Any word on the brown Fanny pack/kill kit/shirttail?
Btw, OT, I just read Unmasked by Paul Holes. It’s not about this case at all — a lot about Golden State Killer and DNA/genealogy progress in crime solving — but many insights about different types of killers. Since I’ve never studied up like many of you have or followed a lot of cases, I learned a lot. Good book.

 

[Mellowmelly]

And it was said in court the wife is standing by him. I just can not fathom with all the coincidences that anyone would think he was innocent.


He would have to be the most unluckiest man alive for it not to be him IMO

It just shows how devious and psychopathic he is. He's been able to act as normal ever since murdering the girls, without any conscience or fear of being caught. His facade must be really convincing.

 

[cuecard]

The spot of the murders was probably the safest spot for him to be. You can barely see it from the middle of the bridge. He had just murdered two young girls. His emotions would be way out of whack. He had a place to chill.

Yeah. I was just surprised that he stayed so long but adrenaline etc does funny things to you.

 

[mrjitty]

He literally puts himself ON the bridge, in the same clothes at the exact time of the murders. Seen by witnesses and a ballistics match. How is this weak? Who knows what else they found.

He let the victims film him!

Maybe my dude always expected to be caught

 

[newredtabby]

the only thing that ties him to the crime is that bullet. I dont know much about extraction marks but I've heard that ballistic evidence is exact science. Also how do they prove that bullet was not there before the murder tool place?
was there no fingerprints on the bullet? no dna on the girls or the bullet? i hope they have more.

what made them finally hone in on the guy? after all this years? they hade the bullet for 5 years

Several posts have mentioned "ballistic" science or "ballistic" evidence. An unfired bullet is NOT ballistic anything.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I’m back from my short self- imposed timeout so I’m sure I missed a lot. Those clothes are so common the defense is going to mock that part mercilessly. Any word on the brown Fanny pack/kill kit/shirttail?
Btw, OT, I just read Unmasked by Paul Holes. It’s not about this case at all — a lot about Golden State Killer and DNA/genealogy progress in crime solving — but many insights about different types of killers. Since I’ve never studied up like many of you have or followed a lot of cases, I learned a lot. Good boobook

Agreed his clothes probably are/were quite common in the area but he was the only man witnessed on the trails/monon hight Bridge that day, in the clothes seen in the BG video and he has admitted being there and at the bridge. I can't see him or his defence coming up with an excuse for that.

 

[Marzipan]

Admitting you were wearing the same clothes as the perp in the video is a pretty devastating admission.

Also, since my timeout didn’t make me stop obsessing on this please indulge me on it one more time.
He admits to wearing the same clothes. So then, do they show him the video and ASK him if that is he in it? Investigators need to ask, not assume, right?
Then does he:
A. Say no, I wore similar stuff but it is not me.
B. Say yes, that is me but I was looking at fish, never saw those girls (leaving himself open to follow ups about whatever else the video may contain).
C. Say, I don’t know, waits for legal help.

I am sorry to be this way. My brain gets stuck on certain things and I just can’t stop even though it’s pointless because we do not have this information. I know it’s annoying, even to myself.

 

[jg580]

Can anyone explain to me why the prosecution wanted the PCA sealed so badly? Nothing in there since the redactions were made (I understand protecting witness names for exmaple) screams omg this MUST stay quiet. Was it just to keep the investigation blunders hidden? I know the families wanted it sealed too but im assuming they didnt know what was actually in it and were just following LE's lead there.

 

[Alethea]

the only thing that ties him to the crime is that bullet. I dont know much about extraction marks but I've heard that ballistic evidence is exact science. Also how do they prove that bullet was not there before the murder tool place?
was there no fingerprints on the bullet? no dna on the girls or the bullet? i hope they have more.

what made them finally hone in on the guy? after all this years? they hade the bullet for 5 years

What are the odds that a guy who admitted being on the bridge at the time of the murder, wearing the same clothes as the person captured in the victim's video, who owns a gun that matches a bullet found at the seen actually wasn't involved?

 

[Heaven Leigh]

I consider myself some what a queen of laundry after parenting for 22 plus years and there is hardly a stain I can’t banish but wth would he keep the coat and boots? Maybe he was gifted new ones for Christmas the December before and kept the older ones for spare? Maybe even with intent? Bloody and muddy are a nasty combination and I would just pitch them. I can somewhat understand why he kept the gun and knives but why not shed the clothing and boots and rid himself of evidence and questions? My kids once put their bearded dragon on our couch atop a thick blanket. It pooped seeping through the blanket and literally ate the finish off our leather couch. I didn’t attempt to salvage the blanket. Women are well equipped to deal with bloody stains but not of a homicidal X 2 stain. IMO

I'm having a hard time thinking he saved any of the clothing he wore. Why do that? He could have several blue jackets. If items were bloody and muddy why not just get rid of them especially after the video came out. He has had years. (Hate that!)

 

[Alethea]

Can anyone explain to me why the prosecution wanted the PCA sealed so badly? Nothing in there since the redactions were made (I understand protecting witness names for exmaple) screams omg this MUST stay quiet. Was it just to keep the investigation blunders hidden? I know the families wanted it sealed too but im assuming they didnt know what was actually in it and were just following LE's lead there.

Because the rational thing to ask is why they didn't do a better job investigating the small list of people who were on the bridge at the time of the murder.

They either ruled him out at the time or just *gestures wildly* did not think people at the scene of the crime were important. Both answers are very bad and will form the basis of two different defenses.

 

[Silver_produce0]

This was the first comment my husband made when I updated him on the latest news — first of all, that is NOT a cheap gun.

Hm… maybe he traded in other guns. I understood the PCA to say that he has more than one.

More to Ponder:

WHAT were the 3 other girls on the bridge doing that day? Were they going to meet someone? Did they catfish the victims? Were they catfish victims themselves?

IF the 3 girls did not pass RA on the bridge that afternoon he would not have went to LE first with his "help tip" .He went to cover his tracks. The timing of all 6 people with 5 of them being underage girls is somewhat suspicious given the social media aspect.

RSBM. I believe that either Becky Patty or Anna Williams has stated that there were other groups of kids at the trails that day, just not at the same time. It stunned me for a minute because I thought we had a pretty good list of everyone there that day and it was short. Not sure if she was referring to this particular group or yet another group though.

And when they finally interviewed him, he told them that he was wearing the exact same things as BG and that he parked at the CPS building. And somehow he hadn't gotten rid of the gun yet.

RSBM. I’m still confused about when police learned he parked at the CPS building. Was it originally in 2017 or only recently? Learning that they have some video of cars passing by the Harveststore was great news to me.

RSBM

Not if his fingerprint(s) (or trace DNA) also happen to be on that round. That round was handled at least once, to load it into the weapon.

RSBM. Maybe this is where we tie in TL’s comment early on about “suggestive evidence of a fingerprint”.

 

[Alethea]

I’m back from my short self- imposed timeout so I’m sure I missed a lot. Those clothes are so common the defense is going to mock that part mercilessly. Any word on the brown Fanny pack/kill kit/shirttail?
Btw, OT, I just read Unmasked by Paul Holes. It’s not about this case at all — a lot about Golden State Killer and DNA/genealogy progress in crime solving — but many insights about different types of killers. Since I’ve never studied up like many of you have or followed a lot of cases, I learned a lot. Good book.

But he admitted he was ON THE BRIDGE wearing those clothes at the time of the murder. So it's not really the clothes, it's that they have video of the kidnapper who was wearing those clothes on the bridge at the time of the murder.

Unless there were two guys on the bridge wearing the same clothes at the same time he's kind of SOL. The PCA made a big deal of the fact that witnesses only saw one person matching that description. It wasn't like a dad convention, where lots of 40-50 year old guys wearing carhart jackets were gathered to watch fish on the bridge as one does.

 

[asyousay]

So he was with the girls a long time and we know there was staging and signatures I think LE said.


So did he have props and if he did were they set up before hand?

I can’t remember reading if he had a bag on him but how exactly would you stage them?


mooooooooooooo