Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[EOA]

Although the trip was to the bridge was apparently very spur of the moment (and not even their first choice outing). I’ve been convinced KK was involved for some time but it does seem possible RA was trolling the bridge on the offchance he would run into a potential victim/or victims. Was it a school holiday? The PCA alludes to other young witnesses on the trail.

IIRC (MOO), Libby had been asking multiple times the past week to get a ride from her sister to the High Bridge, seemingly intent on getting over there for some reason - not so sure about spur of the moment...

If he was trolling the bridge on the possibility he'd encounter potential victim(s), he apparently bypassed the first (3 female juveniles) vulnerable individuals he crossed paths with near the Freedom Bridge. Perhaps he knew that location was insufficient or didn't think he could handle 3 people, and would take his offchances on others elsewhere - or of course could've known that A & L were scheduled at the South End of High Bridge.

Yes, it was sort of a school holiday - for likely Delphi students only. Long answer is that Indiana in 2017 required 180 days of in-person instruction. As it snows, sometimes a lot, in Indiana most school corporations build around 5 snow days into the school calendar (scheduling say 185 days) so that the school year doesn't have to extend into the summer to achieve the 180 days if snow-related school cancellations accumulate in the winter. If the winter progresses without very many cancellations, school corps normally release days off one-by-one in Feb/March/April, typically on Mondays/Fridays so that they don't have to give a whole extra week off in May/June. This Feb 13, 2017 was originally scheduled as a school day but it was likely announced at the previous monthly Delphi school board meeting that 2/13 would instead be a day off since few snow-cancellation days had occurred so far. Interestingly, if a murder/significant meetup were pre-planned far in advance, the following Monday 2/20/17 as President's Day would've been a much more likely date chosen, being a much more universal school holiday on the calendar as a day off from the beginning and for almost all school districts around and including Delphi. As the timing appears to have worked out, even a school day in Delphi Jr. High dismissed at 3:15 thus these events that happened from 2:13 to 3:57 only provided an extra hour over what any given day might've allowed.

 

[TeaTime]

The bullet at the scene came from his gun. Can't explain that away. He's the one.

I always thought that was a Sig Sauer in his jacket.

Rumors of clothing being found in the river are confirmed as true.

Still don't know how a search warrant was obtained.

Fruit of the poisonous tree? Hope not.

 

[mom2chloe]

Why would he clear his gun and leave the unspent bullet at the scene? That just seems really strange to me. I am starting lean toward more than just one person. One waiting and one following the girls. Just happy they have something that links this guy with the crime. I also think he killed them with a knife. I don't think he tried to wash his clothing, I think he burned them. Hence the firepit search. Buttons, zippers etc. JMOO I really hope LE Homicide has DNA.

If he racked the gun to intimidate the girls into compliance and maneuver them down the hill he would have had a live round in the chamber. He would have emptied it to assure he didn’t accidentally shoot himself during the crime or alert others with a live gun shot in the area. No idea whether he did this prior to or after the murders. The ground was littered with leaves and possibly mud which might have made it difficult to visualize and/or retrieve the bullet. IMO

 

[Yvettea]

I find it extremely disturbing that the girl said she came up to his shoulder but he was not taller than 5’10.

And BG was always consistently described as 5’8 or 5’10 — much taller than RA.

RA is noticeably very short. It’s the first thing you’d notice when seeing him:

View attachment 383694

RA is 5’7” which was established in numerous comments right here using his booking photo to determine (his height).

 

[Thewiley]

I consider myself some what a queen of laundry after parenting for 22 plus years and there is hardly a stain I can’t banish but wth would he keep the coat and boots? Maybe he was gifted new ones for Christmas the December before and kept the older ones for spare? Maybe even with intent? Bloody and muddy are a nasty combination and I would just pitch them. I can somewhat understand why he kept the gun and knives but why not shed the clothing and boots and rid himself of evidence and questions? My kids once put their bearded dragon on our couch atop a thick blanket. It pooped seeping through the blanket and literally ate the finish off our leather couch. I didn’t attempt to salvage the blanket. Women are well equipped to deal with bloody stains but not of a homicidal X 2 stain. IMO

Completely agree, being a laundry queen myself. there are just some things I won’t throw in my washer.
having said that, have not a clue on RA family hygiene, laundry habits.
and if I were a savvy criminal, I would ditch every bit of evidence…IMO

 

[Gemmie]

Maybe he said he was fishin’ and he quickly cleaned up. But did he really still have the jacket he wore that fateful night?! The ballistics definitely puts him at the scene of the crime, but I hope they also have his DNA on A&L or her DNA on his clothing or gun.

I hear what you're saying but I'd prefer his DNA was at the crime scene and not ON them. Ya know what I'm sayin'?

 

[Interested_Party]

If he was trolling the bridge on the possibility he'd encounter potential victim(s), he apparently bypassed the first (3 female juveniles) vulnerable individuals he crossed paths with near the Freedom Bridge. Perhaps he knew that location was insufficient or didn't think he could handle 3 people, and would take his offchances on others elsewhere - or of course could've known that A & L were scheduled at the South End of High Bridge.

Yes, it was sort of a school holiday - for likely Delphi students only. Long answer is that Indiana in 2017 required 180 days of in-person instruction. As it snows, sometimes a lot, in Indiana most school corporations build around 5 snow days into the school calendar (scheduling say 185 days) so that the school year doesn't have to extend into the summer to achieve the 180 days if snow-related school cancellations accumulate in the winter. If the winter progresses without very many cancellations, school corps normally release days off one-by-one in Feb/March/April, typically on Mondays/Fridays so that they don't have to give a whole extra week off in May/June. This Feb 13, 2017 was originally scheduled as a school day but it was likely announced at the previous monthly Delphi school board meeting that 2/13 would instead be a day off since few snow-cancellation days had occurred so far. Interestingly, if a murder/significant meetup were pre-planned far in advance, the following Monday 2/20/17 as President's Day would've been a much more likely date chosen, being a much more universal school holiday on the calendar as a day off from the beginning and for almost all school districts around and including Delphi. As the timing appears to have worked out, even a school day in Delphi Jr. High dismissed at 3:15 thus these events that happened from 2:13 to 3:57 only provided an extra hour over what any given day might've allowed.

Thank you for detailing all of this!

I’m inclined to discount the possibility more than one person is involved in this — the evidence of dark web activity etc. and rings seems wholly fanciful — but perhaps an arranged meet up is the simplest explanation given he arrived just before 1:30pm and encountered them at 2:13pm.

 

[Jillyg]

The ballistic evidence is not solid. The case is not airtight by any means, and a conviction is far from certain. As the attorney for Kaitlin Armstrong argued, “ballistics is pseudoscience and witchcraft”. The PCA admits that the match to RA’s gun is subjective.

I'm racking my brain to remember a case I've seen where allowed unspent bullets to be used as evidence. It's difficult enough to make a spent bullet convincing, much less an unspent one. Can anyone elaborate on this?

 

[Jillyg]

I know you were responding to someone else. I have to think that when he told LE he was there and on the bridge he probably figured an arrest was imminent. When the video was released, I'm sure he thought an arrest was imminent.

When the first sketch was released he probably started breathing a little easier.

When the second sketch was released he probably assumed he was home free.

I don't think it was as much arrogance as complete and utter shock that he had gotten away with it. I think he is an idiot (I hope I can say that) based on telling LE straight away he was there, telling them what he was wearing, telling them no one had ever used his gun, etc. But I think LE are in the same intelligence category and that's how he got away with it for so long.

And I hate speaking ill of LE, it's honestly surprising that there are that many incompetent people in one county.

The fbi were a large part of the case from the beginning and ISP have been in charge from day 1

 

[photographer4]

So assuming RA is BG and the killer...

He backs his car into a spot next to the old CPS lot and starts walking the trails sometime shortly before the girls are dropped off, 1:30 according to him. He passes some people, including juveniles, glaring and not responding to them. He is already on the bridge when A and L are walking the trail toward the bridge. He's not in L's photos from the bridge, so apparently he is somewhere nearby and out of view. The girls cross the bridge and by 2:13, he is behind A on the bridge while L films. One of the girls notices a gun, he approaches them, tells them "G...DTH," they go down the hill and the video stops. At this point, we don't know the sequence of events, but during the next hour to hour and a half, in some order, the girls clothes are removed and end up downstream of the CS, they cross the creek, they are killed, moved, and staged. RA leaves an "odd" crime scene, with signatures, and no obvious motive (according to RI). An unspent bullet ends up between the bodies, RA exits the CS, with some sort of trophy, muddy and bloody, and walks 300 Rd west, back to his vehicle at 3:57 pm.

It's all very bizarre to me.

And a crime scene that doesn’t say “someone was just killed here” (paraphrasing) per Robert Ives when interviewed.

How did searchers not realize what they had stumbled upon? - le has said this before. If there was blood lost at the scene and now we know a witness saw the killer covered in blood leaving the scene then how did searchers not realize? Were the kids bodies cleaned up? Wounds hidden by clothes?

Clothes were found in the creek - when? By whom? Why didn’t searchers find these items?

Something is missing here still. I’m not sure what but something is missing.

 

[CurtMarcucci]

I do not believe the girls were shot for two reasons:
-> the gun mentioned in the PCA is loud little thing! It would have been heard and surely people at the scene would have reported having heard that. No one did (that we know of).
-> in the RL search warrant, the document said the girls had wounds caused by a _____ weapon. I cannot imagine the missing / redacted word is gun because you wouldn’t say a “gun weapon”. You would say a sharp weapon or a blunt weapon (or object). But I cannot put “gun weapon” together like that, and cannot find a way to do it that would work, can you (or anyone here)?

You can literally hear people yell from a half mile away out there. Shooting that gun would have been like dynamite at 1:00 am.

 

[borndem]

I think it was KK catfishing them. He knew he couldn’t ever actually meet up with them IRL. He may have uploaded their photos on the dark web & RA saw the pics and knew the area was near him so he seized the opportunity. KK & RA likely don’t know each other because they’re anons in some sick ring. Do those you have followed this case the entire way feel he used a knife to kill them?

My bold.
Yes, it's silent and would probably be scary enuff to make the girls quiet -- if one screams, the other one would probably be stabbed, etc.
Many men routinely carry knives, and the perpetrator here would have been ready to defend himself or to attack if he had a knife.

 

[NugHunter]

In my opinion RA is guilty of the murders and will be found guilty in a court of law.I believe he acted alone during the murders and was alone with the 2 victims at scene of the murders....that being said here are some thoughts

1) IMO RA went to LE first (Friendly conservation officer?) first to let them know he was on the bridge but did not see the girls.He did this because he knew the other 3 girls saw him leaving the area and would surely tell LE of his presnece on the bridge that day.
His report went unnoticed for several different reasons. One being in the very early stages of the investigation the initial description of the suspect looked nothing like RA.Another is The " local friendly" LE he made his "helpfull tip" too never thought twice about it ,as his statement like others on the bridge that day was originally OFFERED in good faith from a concerned local citizens trying to help LE.The "friendly" LE officer probably had no knowledge of the 40call bullit found as he was not "in the know" on that piece of information let aloine if RA owned a 40cal. Add KK into the mix and all the lies he brought to the investigation and you have a perfect storm for RA to miracuously fly under the radar.

The report RA made was never looked at until recently by new investigators (Kathy Shank?) who found the old "tipster" report and then made the connection with bullit/gun ownership and the fat RA was on the bridge that day but other then the report she was looking at ,there was no mention of RA anywhere. Once that connection was made everything else fell into place:the gun,dna,boot prints,blood...etc. IMO They never looked at RA at all , let alone as a suspect until this newest connection was made. He got very lucky to get away with it for so long.

I Would not put blame on LE but rather bad timing and back luck .

2) IMO RA is pleading not guilty and claiming innocence because he is a sick F$#@K who wants to play this game for years and years to come. The type of beast to claim innocence to his dying day for his own sick pleasure. I am sure We will hear about all sorts of possible suspects from his lawyers when this trial starts ..but..the only person who is going to be directly connected by scientific evidence is RA.


3) Instead of dragging LE and grasping at straws why this took so long , I am going to be thankful this animals day in court is coming . All of our questions will be answered in the coming months...we waited 5 years whats a few more months.

 

[cujenn81]

Having to play devil’s advocate against myself for a minute.

Let’s say it was RA who was the killer? A Sig Sauer 40mm brand new is over $1,000. Serious piece of equipment. Maybe - as to motive - he could have been a gun for hire? And maybe, gosh darn it, KAK was the client, for obvious reasons. I don’t know… it’s a stretch. As I said, devil’s advocate.

Removing an IMEI number from a phone requires fairly technical knowledge. It’s unusual.

This was the first comment my husband made when I updated him on the latest news — first of all, that is NOT a cheap gun.

Also, slightly O/T, but my dad named his dog Sig and I’m truly hating this new association. I guess it was bound to happen eventually.

 

[Soulmagent]

If he killed them from behind, then how would he look like he’d been in a fight per the witness in the PCA? I cannot wrap my head around this idea - perhaps it is from moving / staging the scene?

This witness statement has me curious . I cant picture her being able to make out mud and blood on his clothes as she drives past . I doubt this makes it into court unless they find the clothes.

 

[Boxer]

Man in black just seems to be the same guy - it's just one witness remembered his clothes differently.

Internesting.

 

[mickey2942]

I am still trying to figure out what was so secret about the charging document. It is a bit flimsy. But not worth the drama of keeping it sealed. JMO.

 

[kittythehare]

If they had run instead of complying, is it likely he would have shot them?
I think he was behaving in a particularly menacing way as well as showing them the gun

 

[Charlot123]

And a crime scene that doesn’t say “someone was just killed here” (paraphrasing) per Robert Ives when interviewed.

How did searchers not realize what they had stumbled upon? - le has said this before. If there was blood lost at the scene and now we know a witness saw the killer covered in blood leaving the scene then how did searchers not realize? Were the kids bodies cleaned up? Wounds hidden by clothes?

Clothes were found in the creek - when? By whom? Why didn’t searchers find these items?

Something is missing here still. I’m not sure what but something is missing.

They might have stumbled upon two bodies, but didn’t initially realize the girls were dead and how they died. This is how I explain what happened. It must have been a horrible view, no one would say “stuff nightmares are made of” for no reason. However, everything is missing in affidavit and it looks empty.

 

[Interested_Party]

If they had run instead of complying, is it likely he would have shot them?
I think he was behaving in a particularly menacing way as well as showing them the gun

There’s not really anywhere to run to on the other side of the bridge but undoubtedly refusing to go to a secondary location would have been a better choice. They were so young…