ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[debbiediablo]

And maybe a taser to stun them.

Tasers leave marks. I would hope the LE would release this if factual because it adds a new element about what's important to be vigilant about.

 

[seemstome]

I think that if the two female victims were sleeping in the same bed, it was simply because the house may have been cold, and/or as they are old friends soon to part, for comfort.
I worked once for an acupuncturist and he said 3 am is what is called ‘kidney time,’ that is, when most people are prompted physically to wake to use the restroom. Perhaps E did just that and the killer ran into him on the way out.
I think LE should investigate motel/hotel/air bnb/campsite etc records for lone male visitors to the area that night.
In reading all this info it seems there are ‘normal’ things ie known and familiar: frat and sorority parties, dive bars and food trucks and fast food after hours, young people on social media, a group of close friends, old friends, new friends, travel and work plans, unlocked doors in a safe town, a college age couple in love, neighbors going about their lives who aren’t college students living among college students, pets. This is all normal in a college town.
The only ‘new’ thing is the NEW car. In my opinion it is connected somehow to the murders. I think LE should investigate the dirt in the tire treads to discern where the cars have been, the owner history of the car,
and anywhere the car has been between KG’s hometown and Moscow. Someone may have even put an AirTag in the car and monitored her whereabouts. JMO.

 

[layer]

Has there been any talk of the point of entry? Was it confirmed to be the slider? Or was it the window to the other empty bedroom on the 2nd floor?

No

 

[Charlot123]

Loose lips sink ships.
My thoughts on conflicting statements. Moscow PD is probably as frustrated at the public statements made by the mayor and prosecutor as we are. Unfortunately, there is nothing they can do about it except plead for them to stop and express their annoyance behind the scenes. The mayor is their boss and the county prosecutor is the chief law enforcement officer in the county.
Normally a mayor is expected by the citizens to make some kind of statement when a major event occurs in their jurisdiction. However, this should be limited to expressing their confidence in their PD and committing to provide the resources need to assist in the investigation. Normally the district attorney or, in this case, the county prosecutor would not begin making public comments until it’s time to prepare for trial other than perhaps commenting on the fact that they are working with the pd to assess probable cause etc. They should not be throwing out the evidence to a wandering journalist.
I think Moscow PD has tried to be as transparent as possible in keeping the public informed. I think their press releases have provided much information to the public, but for some reason, the general public is not satisfied until they parade out a group of LE personnel from all the agencies along with a sprinkling of elected officials to answer questions. Press conferences keep people away from the business of investigating the case and usually devolve into misquotes and/or misinterpretation.
If you live in a small town where 4 horrific murders took place in the middle of the night by a perpetrator who slipped away into the darkness, does LE really have to tell you if it was targeted or random in order for you to take the precautions you should be taking? Back when the Boston Strangler was causing panic in the City and people were buying locks and weapons until the supply ran out, LE begged women not to open their doors to strangers. He continued to kill because folks didn’t listen or they didn’t think it could happpen to them.
Yes, people want answers, but, unfortunately, sometimes answers aren’t immediately forthcoming.

There was no Internet in the time of the Boston Strangler. Otherwise, the tip line would be broken by calls about every man in Boston older than 11 years of age. And people’s lives would be seriously devastated by unbiased accusations.

It would be reasonable to believe that the public needs to give the police and the FBI time to work the Idaho case. I am positive they’ll find the killer. Afterwards, one would hope, the Uni will clamp down unbridled partiying as it happened in its neighbor school.

 

[annpats]

Hmm. Food for thought. 4 stealthy, successful murders single-handedly with only a knife indicates some expertise.

And a sheer amount of bravery and confidence to do that!
To infiltrate the house, take control and stab 4 people up close and personal on 2 different floors.....and leave hardly any trace or trail either.
I still do wonder if this was some sort of semi-professional hit, because a fellow college student or deranged local hunter only partially fits the bill.
The fact that this perp has LE almost baffled is disturbing.
MOO.

 

[annpats]

I worked once for an acupuncturist and he said 3 am is what is called ‘kidney time,’ that is, when most people are prompted physically to wake to use the restroom. Perhaps E did just that and the killer ran into him on the way out.

3am may be a 'naturally waking up time' to use the bathroom if you go to bed at 10pm, but these students hadn't long gone to bed. They were still making phone calls at 2am. They can't have been asleep more than 2 hours absolute maximum.

 

[Charlot123]

Motive?
A) random thrill kill for a psychopath
B) felt spurned by one of the girls
C) bigoted toward Greek life
D) some sort of roommate dispute between any of the 5 girls and/or perhaps a BF
E) hit prompted by drug debt of one of the students or a parent
F) other?

I'd go with, from most to least likely, D B A C E F

One of the above plus the killer got seriously psychotic on drugs that day/unbridled by alcohol. I’d think, drugs, because he was still pretty functional. And hard ones, although 100% THC vapes might potentially do the same.

 

[EJB123456]

I think that if the two female victims were sleeping in the same bed, it was simply because the house may have been cold, and/or as they are old friends soon to part, for comfort.
I worked once for an acupuncturist and he said 3 am is what is called ‘kidney time,’ that is, when most people are prompted physically to wake to use the restroom. Perhaps E did just that and the killer ran into him on the way out.
I think LE should investigate motel/hotel/air bnb/campsite etc records for lone male visitors to the area that night.
In reading all this info it seems there are ‘normal’ things ie known and familiar: frat and sorority parties, dive bars and food trucks and fast food after hours, young people on social media, a group of close friends, old friends, new friends, travel and work plans, unlocked doors in a safe town, a college age couple in love, neighbors going about their lives who aren’t college students living among college students, pets. This is all normal in a college town.
The only ‘new’ thing is the NEW car. In my opinion it is connected somehow to the murders. I think LE should investigate the dirt in the tire treads to discern where the cars have been, the owner history of the car,
and anywhere the car has been between KG’s hometown and Moscow. Someone may have even put an AirTag in the car and monitored her whereabouts. JMO.

I was just thinking about that this morning. The car...

 

[annpats]

Motive?
A) random thrill kill for a psychopath
B) felt spurned by one of the girls
C) bigoted toward Greek life
D) some sort of roommate dispute between any of the 5 girls and/or perhaps a BF
E) hit prompted by drug debt of one of the students or a parent
F) other?

I'd go with, from most to least likely, D B A C E F

I think a mixture of E and B, with a bit of C thrown in. Although I don't see the perp hated Greek sorority/fraternity life, but maybe was getting sick and tired of college kids in general. Perhaps they were reneging on too many deals, either private and personal or potentially drugs etc.

 

[ktm44]

sincere condolences for your loss.

do you mind me asking whether you got a named family liaison officer or victim support officer who the family could call for support? ( even though these, if working for LE usually don't get given the critical information either, to safeguard the investigation)

Another person was murdered as well and we were provided a liason person but they do like to establish a single point of contact for each victim, rather than answering the same questions multiple times.

They also provide counselling for victims and while it remains unsolved, good came from bad. My aunt (who's son was murdered) has established a fabulous support group for victims of violent crimes with strong emphasis on murders.

It fills that void outside offical efforts and gives people the ability to work through a unique grief process that few people can understand. There are people who lost family to murder decades ago that still attend her weekly meetings.

 

[elmomom]

Almost 3 weeks in and no reward offered. Why?

Jumping ahead to answer this, since the question comes up a lot. If LE is still working through the tips they have already obtained, then they do not need or want more right now. It is usually when incoming information starts to drop off that a reward may be offered. when a reward is offered, it generates many useless tips, and some possibly good ones. Since every tip needs to be cleared, offering a reward may slow down the investigation needlessly. IMHO

 

[cottonweaver]

Another person was murdered as well and we were provided a liason person but they do like to establish a single point of contact for each victim, rather than answering the same questions multiple times.

They also provide counselling for victims and while it remains unsolved, good came from bad. My aunt (who's son was murdered) has established a fabulous support group for victims of violent crimes with strong emphasis on murders.

It fills that void outside offical efforts and gives people the ability to work through a unique grief process that few people can understand. There are people who lost family to murder decades ago that still attend her weekly meetings.

really pleased to hear that and I trust that the Idaho parents have regular contact from their liaison officer

 

[10ofRods]

Motive?
A) random thrill kill for a psychopath
B) felt spurned by one of the girls
C) bigoted toward Greek life
D) some sort of roommate dispute between any of the 5 girls and/or perhaps a BF
E) hit prompted by drug debt of one of the students or a parent
F) other?

I'd go with, from most to least likely, D B A C E F

G) Mental illness involving paranoia (See Donald Lunde's excellent book, Murder and Madness)
H) Mental illness involving delusions
I) Shared social setting (such as a local hang-out) where conflict between perp and one or more victims had occurred
J) There's a grievance collector in the area who also fits DSM criteria for disordered thinking

I don't think the parents' drug debts exist or have anything to do with this, so I'm using E as only student drug debt.

There can be more than one cause and usually is. While the actions of psychopaths may appear random to outsiders, they rarely are (again, Lunde's book is quite illuminating on this topic).

 

[Bnic84]

The family of KG has been through an unspeakable tragedy. I don't even know how they are functioning. However, MOO is it might be time for them to either A) - Stop talking to the media entirely or B) - Do interviews but make it clear the only questions they'll answer are about who their daughter was in life. Her vibrance, her kindness, her hobbies, etc.

I have a pit of my stomach feeling that many media outlets are using the family to pump them for info they know that LE hasn't released publicly. Listening to the last few interviews from KG's Dad and sister, virtually the only questions asked are about the investigation. This makes me sick because it shows me that the interviewers - and there have been multiple ones - only care about sensationalistic aspects and getting clickbait headlines about "never before released" details of the crime and IMO they are taking advantage of a family in shock, grief and despair.

I have noticed that the initial interviews from EC's parents all focused on who he was. He was funny, loved football which is Mom didn't but watched NFL scores anyway so she could talk to him about them, kind, a triplet, etc. They painted such a beautiful picture of their son. However, either they've gone silent or press won't talk to them anymore because they tried to pump them for info and the family wouldn't budge.

Kaylee seemed like an amazing person and I really wish the interviews with her family would only focus on that. I'd ask the media to stop trying to take advantage of this family but I know that's an exercise in futility. I had a low opinion of most MSM coming into this case, and IMO this exploitation has done nothing but solidify those thoughts.

I heard KG's speech at the vigil and I hope that any further interviews with media can focus on that because the man clearly loves his little girl.

I agreeeeeeeeee. It breaks my heart. I can see the pain in the families eyes and hear the cracking in their voices as they struggle to not cry. Then the reporter doesn’t even give them the space or validation of their loss. They just ask another question that is just so insensitive to the experience of these people. It is so sad.

 

[Petunia83]

That Dad said they were sleeping in the same bed doesn't compromise the investigation at all, because it is doubtful that law enforcement told him that. He is probably making a reasonable assumption (a likely true one based on his experiences), and is rationalizing his grief, which any of us would do. We would all hope that our children didn't die alone, and if there was any chance that they didn't we would err on the side of optimism.

My opinion.

It is also possible that he knows they were in the same bed because Kaylee had already moved her things out. Just a theory. I can’t confirm she’d moved everything out, but I think it’s certainly possible.

 

[Charlot123]

I am stumped by failure of dogs to pick up of any trail of the killers. This fact would imo eliminate many of the possibilities discussed here such as any novice or spurned insulted kid by being able to cover his their tracks. Someone mentioned a pre planted camera in the house, others mentioned "more than one"... yes a garbage bag for clothes even a shower...afterword....just hought (plumber here) did the drains get checked for blood? would have stayed in system possibly if short shower....just stuck on who would be "experienced-trained" to pull this off for so long and wtf they went so quick and stealth if

Moscow, Idaho population density per Wikipedia:

3,720.08/sq mi (1,436.28/km2

If Wiki is not mistaken, it is huge.
I doubt dogs would be helpful, especially given the proximity of other houses and how frequently visited the house was. They might follow the bloody trail and it will probably stop at where the car was. Then in will come to tires etc.

Or maybe, fresh snow fell and masked the trail. Or maybe, when they brought in dogs, it was too late.

When I read the book “what the dog knows” about a cadaver dog, I learned. Dogs have much better noses than we do but they are easily distracted, for example. An airport K-9, trained to sniff drugs and some other contraband, might be of limited use in a murder scene.

 

[Miss Jennifer]

MOD NOTE:

Massive cleanup underway. Please do NOT respond to violations of TOS - report instead, and a lot of you have (thanks!).

As there has been NO indication that this case involves a hate crime, that discussion is being removed. Continued discussion will ensure the thread is shut down. Some other violations are being removed as well.

Thanks, Knitty. We've been patiently waiting for you.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

"That information released by the prosecutor’s office “was a miscommunication,” police said Wednesday."

Six people may have lived in the house where 4 Idaho college students were killed, police say | CNN

Six people may have lived in the house where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death last month, police say.

www.cnn.com

 

[Petunia83]

snipped & bolded by me, just to respond to this aspect of your post.

Steve Goncalves said in passing, in an early interview with a Fox reporter ( younger, stocky, black guy, sorry don't recall his name right now) that after he'd had interactions with PI who'd offered help in this case, that Steve had then said to LE
wtte of ' can I not just get this detail out there to help with the investigation as ' this reporter has been really good to me' that LE responded no, please don't do that.

I will try & refind that old fox clip.
So yes, at the time I also wondered if reporters were cultivating Steve

Anyway, just to add, LE would say that it's also unethical for PI's to contact families to offer help in the middle of an investigation ( can compromise future prosecution cases etc)
Personally I can understand why Steve ( and other bereaved ) feel like they're in a impossible situation - unless we get a speedy resolution to this case

Reporter is Lawrence Jones.

 

[chrisinmd]

Has it been reported of any blood trial leaving the scene to indicate which way out of the house the killer took? If he stayed behind to clean up that is a pretty gutsy move with 2 other people in the house. But I assume he did not know they were there or likely would have killed them as well. Can't really get in any more trouble for 6 murders then you will for 4! <modsnip>