ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 19

[hopewell]

Guy in the flannel is in in his mid to late 30s from what I see, and clean cut, so likely not a witness or suspect (not in cuffs and they certainly wouldn't let a suspect carry a bag). Looks like Greg Maddux in his prime if any of you are old enough. Probably an agent of some sort, or the property manager.

My opinion.

 

[DizzyB]

I’ve been in a similar situation and 100% wanted to see the death scene. The body was removed, but seeing the actual scene was beneficial to me mentally.

Not me. Also similar situation and to this day I will not even drive past. To this day I don’t know most details. Exactly the opposite of the way I am here. It was too personal. If I knew I would have let my mind play it out and envision it, guess it’s a form of self protection.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

Not me. Also similar situation and to this day I will not even drive past. To this day I don’t know most details. Exactly the opposite of the way I am here. It was too personal. If I knew I would have let my mind play it out and envision it, guess it’s a form of self protection.

Yes, we all process things differently. I think if I hadn’t seen it, I would have imagined something much, much worse than what I saw. Sorry you had to go through that.

 

[Sunny Day]

There was a time in my own life (not that long ago) where I would have say, "Nah, people don't choose houses just because they can see inside." I would have contended that it was rare. After many, many policemen told me I was wrong (I was teaching at police academy and then worked as a consultant with police), I rethought my position.

If people can get a sense of when a house has bedded down and everyone is likely asleep (and the dog contained), it gives them a way of planning a criminal entry.

I should also mention that my mother, father, husband and sons-in-law all had the same idea (that we should have blinds and curtains and use them).

But I used to be very casual about all of this. Then one day, I realized a neighbor with a two story house had a camera aimed into our sunroom (not our actual kitchen, but still). I was very angry. And, the police said there was nothing I could do but erect a screen along our fenceline to obstruct the angle of the view. So that's what we did. Same neighbor has a camera aimed onto our driveway as I type - and that same neighbor figured out when we were gone from home and stole things from our mailbox and our back yard (as well as the back yard and mail box of two other neighbors). Long story. But yeah, get window coverings. Use something at hand if necessary.

For a sexual sadist or sexually motivated perp, young women inside uncurtained windows is an age-old lure. Yes, those men are defective or whatever, but they are out there. And they can become opportunistic voyeurs, and then...attackers.

I completely agree. I would also add that even if you have blinds/curtains, go outside after dark with lights on in the house and check what can be seen in your house. I remember reading about a young woman who was murdered by her neighbor. They later found out that he would watch her through the tiny holes in the blinds where the cord goes through. He could tell where her bedroom was and what time she went to bed.

 

[branmuffin]

I found Maddie’s Pinterest and it has a photo of their room. It offers some perspective as to how it was arranged. sorority bedroom | Sorority bedroom, College bedroom, Bedroom

That looks like it might have been in the sorority. Two beds and two study desks. The view out the windows doesn't seem to reflect where her room would be on King Rd.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. I don't live there so this is all my opinion based on MSM reports of supposed paramilitary activity in northern Idaho in response to threats. Since at least 2 of the girls were from Coeur d'alene in northern Idaho (and was Xana from there too? I can't remember), if someone there had a gripe with the girls and wanted to harm them, I think they'd be more likely to use a gun.

The above is all MOO, but I'm providing a MSM media source from the Associated Press as to why I believe that.

Lawmaker panel advances bill lifting Idaho's militia ban

BOISE, Idaho (AP) — A panel of Idaho lawmakers has advanced a bill that would repeal the state's primary law banning private militias.

apnews.com

<modsnip>

 

[mrtnira]

@Emerald1328 Good catch.
Could be the service in use, but not sure if some info from this co. website meshes.

North State Security

Security Guard Service in Meridian, and Boise Idaho

north-state-security.business.site

"Security Guard Service in Meridian, and Boise Idaho."
Quite a distance. Boise to Moscow, 290+mi., a 5 1/2 hr drive.

But can anyone tell if cars at 1122 shown on twitter match this---
"Our vehicle patrol is a 2021 Mazda CX-5 AWD vehicle branded with our company on the doors, and rear windshield. Our vehicle is equipped with 28.5” bright orange LED strobe lights..." bbm
Anyone? Thx in adv.
Website has a pic of their patrol car.

It may be the private security company has a contract with the state, where they take over the physical security of a crime scene to relieve government personnel from static security duty? Having sworn law enforcement doing static security work means they cannot do other duties at the same time.

 

[Puzzles8]

I’ve been in a similar situation and 100% wanted to see the death scene. The body was removed, but seeing the actual scene was beneficial to me mentally.

I am sorry that you have had to experience such a tragedy in your life.

I hope time has been healing

Take care

 

[TKG]

We know the timeline of K&M

+in the bar through the evening
+on camera at the foodtruck buying food circa 1.30am
+gets driven home by designated driver
+arrives at the house between 1.45-2am
+makes numerous calls to J, last one just before 3am

What is unclear is X+E timeline, infact it's quite mysterious and conflicted

+LE say they were at party 8-9pm
+Xanas father says he spoke/facetimed them around midnight and they were watching movies
+Ethan friend says they txted at 2am and he's sure they were still at a party
+yet LE say they arrived home at 1.45am

It doesn't add up, LE need to solve the mystery of X+E night and the timeline of events JMO

In addition, EC's family said he was at a dance with his sister at her sorority earlier that night. Not too much clarity with their timeline. The Venmo for 6.00 at 11:40 p.m. seems indicative of a ride cost/share? Their timeline holds many secrets, IMO.

ETA link for quick reference.Family speaks on Ethan's last hours

 

[al66pine]

ID gun laws?

so everybody over 18 can own a gun without a permit in Idaho? even if they're a student massacre type guy? or a former jailbird? or mentally ill?


oh!

Supplementing answers from others, North_Idaho_Nony and ___
who referred to US fed law re mandatory background check of prospective handgun buyers, abbrev'ed (NICS).

"Under the system, firearm dealers, manufacturers or importers who hold a Federal Firearms License (FFL) are required to undertake a NICS background check on prospective buyers before transferring a firearm. The NICS is not a gun registry,[1] but is a list of persons prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm."

National Instant Criminal Background Check System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This article is about background checks for private sales of firearms in the United States.
Of course we/the public does now know whether the killer did have a handgun at the crime.
Nor do we know if killer bought gun in Idaho or another state.
Or if killer begged, borrowed, or stole a gun.

Universal background check - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just peripheral info.

 

[slanda]

A serial mass murderer. Not just a serial killer (this is not a serial killing so far, but it is a mass murder). It's really rare in the annals of crime that both occur together - but who knows?

Personal animosity (however unwarranted) with overkill sounds the better of the two choices.

If one types "extensive homicide" into scholar.google.com, there are interesting results. Extensive homicide is when a small group of people (often a family or other cohesive social unit) is killed altogether, or the intent is to kill all of them together.

Serial mass murder is exceedingly rare. I can't think of any, but if anyone finds examples, please post.

(I think you and I are leaning in the same direction). And for people who commit extensive homicide (going from place to place to kill the same set of people - usually family members), there's almost always a record of criminality in the past (not necessarily a felony conviction necessitating being entered into the DNA database though). Sometimes it's minor things, but more often, it's neighbors calling for overhearing fighting or domestic violence that never goes to court, things like that. Public drunkeness, disorderly conduct, etc. Given that most people who commit minor instances of disorderly conduct are ignored by most police, "disorderly conduct" can include things like sucker punching or non-felony sexual assault; the victims refuse to give enough information, but police think it's serious enough to pursue a charge.

I think a serial mass murderer would fall into the category of a “spree killer” because I’m not sure anyone has been described as a serial mass murderer specifically because that type of crime is listed in the examples below: Las Vegas shooting, school shootings, workplace shootings, 9/11, etc… The perp usually has one chance to kill as many as possible because it’s so public that he’s either going to die in the process, shortly afterwards, or go in police custody.

The closest thing I’ve read to serial mass murderers would essentially be genocide or the holocaust.

— It gets confusing because even all experts don’t agree on the exact definitions, but they’re trying to define them separately.
The Manson Family are considered spree and thrill killers — serial killer subtype(s), not exactly mass murderers, though they did kill many.

Here’s sources re: Spree Killers.

If Not a Serial Killer, Then What Is Charles Manson?

A fanatical cult leader, Manson ordered his followers to kill.

www.psychologytoday.com

Why Spree Killers and Serial Killers are Not the Same

Spree killers do not cool off between murders like serial killers.

www.psychologytoday.com

Here’s a good source describing the differences between the types of killers and how they are classified: it’s almost like a Venn diagram.

What is the difference between a serial killer, spree killer and mass murderer?

Police in Tampa, Florida, think they have a serial killer on their hands, after the shooting death of three people over an 11-day period in the same neighborhood, but do they?

www.ajc.com

*From the article:

“Federal authorities and criminologists actually classify people who kill more than one person into three different groups: serial killers, spree killers and mass murderers.”

The dictionary defines a serial killer as "a person who kills more than one victim in more than one location in a very short period of time," but according to the FBI that definition actually reflects the behavior of a spree killer.

A spree killer is someone who kills two or more victims over a short period of time without a cooling-off period, the FBI said.


“The maximum duration between murders in spree killing is generally considered to be seven days. Serial killers, on the other hand, may cool off for weeks, months and, in rare instances, even years between murders,” the magazine reported.

The lack of a cooling-off period is the difference between a spree killer and a serial killer, the FBI said.

"This is very different than serial killers who are much more likely to stalk and target complete strangers who somehow fulfill deranged and secret fantasies that only they understand,"

“A mass murder is defined as the killing of a large number of people, usually in one place, like the attack in Las Vegas earlier this month when 58 people were shot to death from a window of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.”

And a link from the FBI BAU: Serial Killers, Part 8: New Research Aims to Help Investigators Solve Serial Murder Cases | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[10ofRods]

Well, this is …odd. Moo.

Do you mean the arrangement of not locking the front door but having locks on the individual doors?

 

[SuziQ]

i find it hard to believe that the university could not invite LE to run a dog through the dorms. that makes zero sense

The dogs would need a scent sample. Not sure that would be doable in that active house and if the perp left nothing behind. Imo.

 

[T4Tide]

Guy in the flannel is in in his mid to late 30s from what I see, and clean cut, so likely not a witness or suspect (not in cuffs and they certainly wouldn't let a suspect carry a bag). Looks like Greg Maddux in his prime if any of you are old enough. Probably an agent of some sort, or the property manager.

My opinion.

That’s why I didn’t say suspect. The backpack, etc. But there’s an odd way he’s being “ushered.” I think 3 dudes out just doing their job could all open their own doors on a vehicle. I can’t put my finger on whether it was just them being polite or the other two guys being in “control.” Although it would be weird to let someone get in the backseat while you were driving. Idk. A super weird vibe.

 

[lucidium]

That’s why I didn’t say suspect. The backpack, etc. But there’s an odd way he’s being “ushered.” I think 3 dudes out just doing their job could all open their own doors on a vehicle. I can’t put my finger on whether it was just them being polite or the other two guys being in “control.” Although it would be weird to let someone get in the backseat while you were driving. Idk. A super weird vibe.

ETA: Disregard

[I have not seen whatever video is being discussed, so pardon me if this is irrelevant.]

The rear doors on many (most?) cars can be set to only open from the exterior. It's typically to prevent children from opening them at inopportune times.

 

[whirrledpeas]

I read today that the University of Idaho will not share the information regarding which students returned to campus and which haven't with LE. This is out of concern for student privacy.

Idaho murders: University not formally tracking which students are not returning to campus

Idaho State Police spokesperson Aaron Snell says the University of Idaho has "specific privacy concerns" regarding information of students not returning to campus.

www.yahoo.com

I’m not a mod but I believe victims finances are off limits.

But I made six figures as a server/bartender when I was in college. ‍

 

[WildWest]

Why do you have a bedroom at your sorority house and also a place to live at a student house?
Can't you live at your sorority one?
Not from the US, so hoping someone can explain.....

Appears to be her previous bedroom from she was active and lived at the Sorority from an earlier year or semester.

 

[bonniejeanne17]

Good Morning!
I wonder what LE has planned for Christmas break at the campus? I would think they would send in the hounds to sniff around student residences.

Good idea, but not likely to happen.

Don't most colleges have all rooms deep cleaned before the new semester?

 

[10ofRods]

I’ve been in a similar situation and 100% wanted to see the death scene. The body was removed, but seeing the actual scene was beneficial to me mentally.

::hugs:: from an internet stranger.

For a brief time (when I was 18 years old), I was a crime scene photographer. Long story, but what impresses me now is how often family members wanted to see the scene - and sometimes see the body. I think they have the right to do so.

People speaking for others and saying no such thing should be considered need to know this.

 

[IceCreamSundae]

[I have not seen whatever video is being discussed, so pardon me if this is irrelevant.]

The rear doors on many (most?) cars can be set to only open from the exterior. It's typically to prevent children from opening them at inopportune times.

No, it appears one of the older gentlemen opens the door of a pickup truck cab to let the younger man in flannel get in.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598768298862465024

 

[T4Tide]

[I have not seen whatever video is being discussed, so pardon me if this is irrelevant.]

The rear doors on many (most?) cars can be set to only open from the exterior. It's typically to prevent children from opening them at inopportune times.

Yeah… it was entering, not exiting. Probably nothing and I’m overthinking things