Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[Fargo]

Thank you! I agree with you—haven’t heard any indication that shots were fired that day. But I’ve seen quite a few people who assumed that the presence of a ‘bullet’ on the scene would mean that a shot was fired. So I think that calling the ‘round’ a ‘bullet’ helps lead to unnecessary confusion

And the presence of an ‘unspent round’ is interesting. Why was it there? Are there any other cases where that’s happened, and been relevant?

My theory for quite some time was that the killer used a gun to threaten them, and then something more silent to kill them.

MOO

I find the unspent round interesting as well. According to the PCA the round was cycled through a firearm at some point and ejected. Both require an intentional act. You have to rack the slide to chamber the round. Then you have to rack the slide again to eject the round.

The most logical and straight forward explanation for an unspent round to be located at the crime scene is that there was already a round in the chamber during the commission of the crime but the slide was racked as an act of intimidation. We've all seen this dramatic action in movies - a gun is being used to menace and then to illustrate the threat is serious serious the actor dramatically racks the slide to up the threat. This sound is loud and alarming and intimidating. It's a signal that someone means business.

And I think that's why the gun was racked at the crime scene. Some loss of control was happening so the slide was racked as a threat, an act of intimidation, but with a round already in the chamber that round would have ejected as the new round chambered.

An alternative explanation is the gun was intentionally unloaded before leaving the scene. This would involve removing the magazine and racking the slide to eject the round in the chamber. But I think in this scenario the round would have been picked up and taken from the scene. The PCA says the round was located between the bodies so it shouldn't have been hard to find if he looked for it.

Either way, in looking back over the events he should have put 2 and 2 together and realized he left a round there even if he didn't realize it or think it important in the heat of the moment. And he should have ditched the gun. If he did know in the moment that he'd lost the round and spent time unsuccessfully looking for it, he should have ditched the gun.

Racking that gun at the scene and then not getting rid of that gun afterwards is a costly mistake. It's exactly the kind of mistake that leads to solving crimes. I personally would have disposed of every single thing I was wearing or carrying after committing a double homicide.The devil is in the details. My opinions only.

 

[minazoe]

so obvious that RA wanted to play cat and mouse with someone. He literally had no alibi, nothing. mOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's entirely possible RA never even knew that bullet was missing or at the crime scene, until LE told him.
If that's the case, he was probably feeling pretty dang sure of himself all this time, living right there, essentially invisible.

jmo

 

[LeBlack]

There was that one girl that went missing in the Peru area (iirc) in 2006 (right before he moved iirc) and her body wasn't found till 2009. I can't remember her name and am not sure if its allow either but i will say she looks exactly like Libby (not sure how much that matters or how much that's a serial offender myth). The timing with the timing of his move is interesting to me. (mexico IN and Peru IN are very close together).

Timing is very interesting. I had to search to see if this had been discussed.

 

[Vpq]

It just makes no sense that a guilty man would be so forthcoming, non-evasive, etc. IMOO

However, its not nearly as conclusive as matching the marks left on a spent round. I can't recall any case where this type evidence has been used. Can you?

That still is not conclusive, as in when a firing pin strikes and the round is shot through the barrel.

I can't buy that he was worried about unchambering a round, after he'd just killed, with sharp force injuries, a 13 and 14 year-old, dragged them some distance, posed their bodies, and stole an article or more of clothing. I can't get there. Sure, maybe he usually preferred to carry without a round. But then, why chamber a round to begin with? (If someone draws a weapon on me, I won't be debating whether or not it's ready to fire with a trigger pull. I'd be convinced.) If he chambered it, would be really be so concerned about THAT in that moment? Why would he waste a split second to do anything other than getting out of there?

Attempted suicide and the gun jammed then he changed his mind

 

[zencompass]

RA said he’s never been to the spot, doesn’t know the landowner, & has never let anyone else use the gun…. I mean IMO dude is just guilty as sin & has confessed to everything, Strong cases make boring debates….

Dear @taylorss ,

Great post, as usual !

I'm certain R.A. will regret saying, quoting your words, "RA said he’s never been to the spot"

By saying this, he has removed any "reasons/excuses" for anything of his (DNA? fingerprints?)
that was found there, including of course an unspent bullet that is a match to his gun.

I believe that the above statement he made is extremely important and will play out in trial.

JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I’m still wondering who RA’s accomplice is.

 

[Gemmie]

I’m still wondering who RA’s accomplice is.

The devil.

 

[TL4S]

Okay, I have a stupid question. I'm not into IG type platforms, but I'm wondering about RA saying he was watching a stock ticker. I assumed that to mean on a stock ticker app, or maybe streaming online, something. But what about something like IG? If he "followed" a stock ticker account, could he have been watching that while still simultaneously watching L's IG? I'm asking because I have no idea if this is even possible. And not just IG, but any other SM platforms? I know I probably sound completely clueless...but that's because I am.

 

[Zapoleon]

I wonder if RA knew RL was dead. If he had known, then he could have said, "I don't know. I've practice fired my gun a couple times down there, with the owner's permission." Or something along those lines. It's not like RL was alive to contest it. I think RA just didn't know what to say...

Law enforcement who interviewed him no doubt smartly forced him into a corner and got him to commit to a version of a story before they revealed key facts to him.
Even if Allen had been able to come up with such a story on the fly to explain away the bullet. Law enforcement would have wanted something to back up the claim like messages or some other proof Allen had gotten permission to fire a gun there from RL.
Also let's not forget LE spent a lot of time on RL so they without little doubt probably had already asked RL who if anyone he allowed to hunt etc on his property.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Okay, I have a stupid question. I'm not into IG type platforms, but I'm wondering about RA saying he was watching a stock ticker. I assumed that to mean on a stock ticker app, or maybe streaming online, something. But what about something like IG? If he "followed" a stock ticker account, could he have been watching that while still simultaneously watching L's IG? I'm asking because I have no idea if this is even possible. And not just IG, but any other SM platforms? I know I probably sound completely clueless...but that's because I am.

I don't see why he would not be able to. Maybe his stock ticker is some type of a crawler app. I can watch a court case being live streamed on one tab and check my Twitter on another. Or open each in a separate window so I don't have to click back and forth. I don't do much on my phone, though because it's too small. I'm guessing that if he did have limitations they would be due to his phone.

 

[Boxer]

I wonder if RA knew RL was dead. If he had known, then he could have said, "I don't know. I've practice fired my gun a couple times down there, with the owner's permission." Or something along those lines. It's not like RL was alive to contest it. I think RA just didn't know what to say...

No weathering. Brass is very reactive, oxydozies in the elements, bullet discovered on top of leaves.

 

[TL4S]

RA's Feb. 2017 statement:


RA's Oct. 2022 statement:

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I can’t help but wonder what the case against RA would be like if he had been investigated in the beginning. What physical evidence would have been found in the first few days? Blood, hair or fibers on clothes, boots, or in the car that have since been cleaned or discarded? Would witnesses have identified him in a lineup before their memories faded? Would RA have cracked under pressure if he had been properly interviewed right after the murders? Or, conversely, the lack of evidence back then would have built a stronger defense.

Had the phone video been discovered when he spoke to an officer? Did they have any idea of who they were looking for yet?

 

[BUF]

Had the phone video been discovered when he spoke to an officer? Did they have any idea of who they were looking for yet?

On Feb 15, LE distributed a photo of BG, which was pretty quickly after the girls were discovered. As of yet, we have no idea of when RA supposedly talked to LE.

Delphi Homicide Investigation

 

[Ontario Mom]

Murder Sheet podcast says they knew about the bullet. That info seems to have been known to journalists for years but not reported. They seemed to imply there were also other things.

I confess, I'm a bit lost.

When did the folks at MS say knew about the bullet? Is there a link for that somewhere?

 

[Boxer]

On Feb 15, LE distributed a photo of BG, which was pretty quickly after the girls were discovered. As of yet, we have no idea of when RA supposedly talked to LE.

Delphi Homicide Investigation

Other than in front of a grocery store per the defense attorney.
Not too professional.

 

[Boxer]

Had the phone video been discovered when he spoke to an officer? Did they have any idea of who they were looking for yet?

By February 15th they knew.
The first plea was they were looking for the man on the bridge as a witness.

 

[Trebor5591]

I realize many of us want answers and curious to how things played out in this case. That being said, we all have to realize there is more evidence in this case then was released in the recently released PC dox. For those who do not know,PC stands Probable Cause. It does not stand for BARD or Beyond A Reasonable Doubt which is required to CONVICT the defendant during TRIAL..and its not supposed too !!!

The PC dox are the prosecutions way of convincing a grand jury they have ENOUGH PROBABLE evidence to CHARGE a defendant with a crime and put him on trial.They do no present ALL of the evidence.
Here is how it works:
Prosecutor to Grand Jury : "We found this bullit that matches the accused gun,we have eyewitnesses at the scene who place accused at scene, we have statement from accused admitting his presence at the scene at the time of the murders,the clothes the accused stated he was wearing matches the clothes the man in the video was wearing, the accused and man in video who said"down the hill " both have the same body type.
IF you the grand jury give us chance to put this man on trial we feel we have enough evidence in TOTAL to convict the accused at trial so take a look at what we showed you and please give us that chance to prove his guilt BARD"

Grand Jury : "After reviewing the prosecutions PC evidence we believe there is enough PROBABLE CAUSE Evidence to put the defendant on trial and let both side provide evidence that point to guilt or innocence and let 12 people decide the outcome"

I do not think ANYONE here would disagree they did no present enough evidence to convict RA in the PC dox ...BUT... they did present enough to put RA on trial for these crimes....which as I previously stated is the main reason for a PC hearing.

I would hope people would stop "trying" the entire case based on whats in PC dox as its like trying to solve a mystery novel by only reading the front and back cover.
.

Your analysis is fine however in this case there was no grand jury presentation. The prosecutors issued an arrest warrant approved by Judge Deimer and a trial was then scheduled based on Judge Deimer's authorization. My opinion only.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM

We know that interviews/interrogations with law enforcement often claim evidence that they don’t have, it happens everyday.

Imagine this, over and over the way they do: “Rick, several people saw you and identified you including what you were wearing”.
He wouldn’t know the witnesses didn’t recognize him from CVS or pick him from a line up.
The only defense to being positively identified would be to argue, “yes it was me but I was just checking the stock market and lookin’ at the fishies”.

As far as the round, we don’t know what went on at the scene in the woods with those girls but there may have been a struggle.

I'm only going off of evidence that is available to us. He may be guilty as sin; I don't know. But based on the evidence currently available to us, I'm not seeing anything. They've said that the unspent round cycled through his gun. There's no mention of DNA evidence, his or either girls', being on it. Also, he admitted in 2017 to being there, not in response to being identified and questioned in 2022.

Again, he may be 100% guilty, and they may have him dead to rights, but I'm not seeing it based on the evidence we've been privy to, to date.