Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[Boxer]

I don't think anyone is color blind.

If I were to pass someone on a trail in a completely benign moment I probably wouldn't even be able to tell you a thing. BG/RA admits to seeing these 3 girls in the same place and at the same time as they remember seeing him. The other 2 girls describe him in a "light blue" and "blue or black" jacket. I think this actually shows honest witness memory, not trying to match a picture, not trying to match each other. The fact that all of them describe him as trying to disguise himself and his demeanor as off is most important to me.

Agree the variance between the witnesses of a proven encounter adds validity.

 

[Boxer]

It's a good theory but it doesn't seem that could explain someone claiming to see his clothing (or part of his clothing) as black.

Types of Color Vision Deficiency | National Eye Institute

Different types of color blindness cause problems seeing different colors. Read about red-green color blindness, blue-yellow color blindness, and complete color blindness.

www.nei.nih.gov

A glance at him in shadow on a dark stretch of the trail does.

 

[Forpsy]

Question--I'm too lazy to go all the way back to find this out. Did Abby have a phone? TIA if you know.

 

[flashy09]

Sorry for this silly question, I know zero about guns. How can a bullet be "cycled through RA's Sig Sauer" and also "unspent?" I don't mean that to be questioning anything, just trying to figure out how/where the bullet came out. Basically what does "cycled" mean?

 

[WildHuncher]

Thought experiment. I see this guy going the other way down a park trail. At the time, I have no reason to suspect anything unusual is happening. The next day, or two days later, I am asked to describe who I saw.

Do I remember light blue, dark blue, or black? Not sure.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I would be very interested in whether RA exhibited any behavioral changes around the time the BG footage was released. But I guess that was pretty immediate, right? Like the day after the girls were found?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thought experiment. I see this guy going the other way down a park trail. At the time, I have no reason to suspect anything unusual is happening. The next day, or two days later, I am asked to describe who I saw.

Do I remember light blue, dark blue, or black? Not sure. View attachment 385478

I would probably say well he wasn't naked. *shrug* I should work on attention to detail.

With work, I'm very detail oriented. Personal? Not so much.

JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

Sorry for this silly question, I know zero about guns. How can a bullet be "cycled through RA's Sig Sauer" and also "unspent?" I don't mean that to be questioning anything, just trying to figure out how/where the bullet came out. Basically what does "cycled" mean?

 

[EOA]

Thought experiment. I see this guy going the other way down a park trail. At the time, I have no reason to suspect anything unusual is happening. The next day, or two days later, I am asked to describe who I saw.

Do I remember light blue, dark blue, or black? Not sure. View attachment 385478

The coat and pants, while larger in surface area, are so normal in Indiana winters that those would not have been distinctive at all and yes forgettable. I'd say the same for the shoes/boots - very typical, mundane, forgettable. The distinct items clothing-wise would be the type of hat and whatever is around the waist, and I'd expect a more vivid remembrance of those. As many have speculated at South End Bridge the gun may have been recognizably protruding from the leg, and while it's not uncommon in Indiana to be carrying, it still would be noted into memory.

Wondering why none of the witnesses noticed enough of the hat, the fanny pack-ish item, or the gun enough to describe, or if they did those descriptions were left out of the PCA in favor of inconsistent coat/pants memories. At least one seemed to recall a face covering which per L's video didn't in fact exist as BG's face appears uncovered in that pic.

And I'll mention this, at the risk of riling up some members who don't like to see anything in defense of the accused - but if memory leeway is being granted to the witnesses for inconsistency or error in colors, times, distances, car models, coat material, etc, I think the judge will remind the jury, and WS members should also allow the same, or at least a similar margin of error, that RA's statements should not be held to an infallible literal standard.

 

[layer]

Same category of evidence as tire tracks, boot prints. Steel marking brass leaves unique marks.

Not exactly. Very few tires and boots leave no marks at all, while a number of firearms leave no marks when cycling unfired ammunition. That is the difference - ALL spent casings will show distinctive marks from the chamber, extractor and ejector, because when fired the expansion of gasses swell the casing and the force of ejection is much greater. Plus you have the impression of the firing pin on the primer.

Even with fired rounds, comvictions have been tossed out based on the concerns raised by this exact evidence on appeal. Honestly, the best statement that should be made is "consistant with". It is more like fiber evidence, truly.

I really am expecting LE to come up with a lot more evidence: DNA, fingerprints, souvenirs from RA's home, etc so that less solid things and shaky witness testimony won't even come into play.

And maybe KAK will testify against him, who knows.

But you're welcome to disagree!

JMHO

 

[layer]

I would be very interested in whether RA exhibited any behavioral changes around the time the BG footage was released. But I guess that was pretty immediate, right? Like the day after the girls were found?

If he did it I suspect he is a psychopath, so he may not have exhibited any reaction at all. Have you seen the photo of him playing pool with the drawing of BG right behind him? Without a care in the world?

 

[WildHuncher]

Wondering why none of the witnesses noticed enough of the hat, the fanny pack-ish item, or the gun enough to describe, or if they did those descriptions were left out of the PCA in favor of inconsistent coat/pants memories. At least one seemed to recall a face covering which per L's video didn't in fact exist as BG's face appears uncovered in that pic.

The witness having trouble seeing his face doesn't say it was covered. Rather, his jacket collar was up, the hood of his hoodie was up, and he was looking down. The net effect of all that was that his face was hard to see.

The bridge pic matches that description to a degree. His face appears to be shrouded, especially from side views. The effect would be stronger except the hood appears to have slid, been thrown, or been blown back from the position the witness describes.

 

[flashy09]

The coat and pants, while larger in surface area, are so normal in Indiana winters that those would not have been distinctive at all and yes forgettable. I'd say the same for the shoes/boots - very typical, mundane, forgettable. The distinct items clothing-wise would be the type of hat and whatever is around the waist, and I'd expect a more vivid remembrance of those. As many have speculated at South End Bridge the gun may have been recognizably protruding from the leg, and while it's not uncommon in Indiana to be carrying, it still would be noted into memory.

Wondering why none of the witnesses noticed enough of the hat, the fanny pack-ish item, or the gun enough to describe, or if they did those descriptions were left out of the PCA in favor of inconsistent coat/pants memories. At least one seemed to recall a face covering which per L's video didn't in fact exist as BG's face appears uncovered in that pic.

And I'll mention this, at the risk of riling up some members who don't like to see anything in defense of the accused - but if memory leeway is being granted to the witnesses for inconsistency or error in colors, times, distances, car models, coat material, etc, I think the judge will remind the jury, and WS members should also allow the same, or at least a similar margin of error, that RA's statements should not be held to an infallible literal standard.

Luckily it's not all witness or RA memory! A vehicle matching RA's is shown at 1:27 pm passing the Hoosier Harvestore in the direction of the old CPS building. RA told the conservation officer he arrived at 1:30 pm. That places RA at trail at the time of the witnesses and of Libby's video.

This is RA memory though: "The clothing he told investigators he was wearing match the clothing of the male in Victim's 2 video."

 

[Boxer]

Not exactly. Very few tires and boots leave no marks at all, while a number of firearms leave no marks when cycling unfired ammunition. That is the difference - ALL spent casings will show distinctive marks from the chamber, extractor and ejector, because when fired the expansion of gasses swell the casing and the force of ejection is much greater. Plus you have the impression of the firing pin on the primer.

Even with fired rounds, comvictions have been tossed out based on the concerns raised by this exact evidence on appeal. Honestly, the best statement that should be made is "consistant with". It is more like fiber evidence, truly.

I really am expecting LE to come up with a lot more evidence: DNA, fingerprints, souvenirs from RA's home, etc so that less solid things and shaky witness testimony won't even come into play.

And maybe KAK will testify against him, who knows.

But you're welcome to disagree!

JMHO

MOO If there are marks on the brass they can be matched on a microscopic level with the other rounds cycled.

MOO Consistent with is more a manufacturing lot, or a type of river mud etc.
This is a direct mark made by a specific striker.

 

[layer]

MOO If there are marks on the brass they can be matched on a microscopic level with the other rounds cycled.

MOO Consistent with is more a manufacturing lot, or a type of river mud etc.
This is a direct mark made by a specific striker.

The striker would be way more compelling evidence, but it is only used to fire a round.

We'll just have to agree to disagree

 

[Le Singe]

Here's what it looks like if you walked past the cemetery, out onto Country Road 300, PAST THE HOSSIER HARVETSTORE, and to his car. Question: Wouldn't the muddy and bloody man have passed the camera at the the store that confirmed the witness presence that day and the other cars identified in the PCA> ???

snipped for focus

this is my #1 question he would have almost had to have been on that camera. Unless he knew it was there and intentionally avoided it (seems unlikely his car was on it earlier). I guess maybe he just avoided the store cause people might have been there?? would be nice to know where exactly the woman saw him muddy and bloody?

Of course for all we know he might have been on that camera and they are not saying ... but i don't see the point of leaving that out of the PCA.

 

[layer]

This is RA memory though: "The clothing he told investigators he was wearing match the clothing of the male in Victim's 2 video."

You wouldn't by any chance know what that white thing was, would you? It was driving us all crazy trying to figure it out. LOL

 

[YaYa_521]

This thread is now closed. Click below to continue in Thread #160.

Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread. On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek...

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