ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 57

[gizmobtj]

The only weird thing I noticed after reading the affidavit is that DM didn't call the cops after meeting a black dressed and hooded intruder after 4 AM. It's not normal despite it's a party house. She was frozen in terror, manage to lock the door but fail to alert LE. Only the motive for the murders is more mysterious than this.

Where are you getting hooded from? There was only a mask covering his nose and mouth

 

[Friday Fan]

Can anyone enlighten me about a few questions I have about the DNA source? Can the defense lawyer dismiss the evidence if there's no other sample to be tested by the defense team?

And - a biology question actually - all our characteristics as human are encoded on a DNA string right? So can you draw a picture of the murdered based of the genes found on that DNA? Like ethnicity, sex, hair color, eyes color, and more?

Sex is almost always accurate. Eye color is very accurate. Hair not as much. (I guess it's too complex) Ancestry says that I do not have a dimple on my chin and I do. There are few other traits that Ancestry and I disagree on. Ancestry also says that I'm an elite athlete or have the genes for it. I do not!!!

 

[Boxer]

That very well may be but it circled the house for hours. A flight path wouldn't circle and I wouldn't think a training exercise would circle the house where the bust of a quadruple murder recently took place.

MOO Plane flight paths do circle to while waiting to get clearance to proceed on a flight plan.
But I think the poster that said they were looking for recently disturbed earth with some type of equipment is probably right.

 

[Diogenetic]

And it will be a thrill for him to challenge the prosecution’s evidence, to try to outsmart them.

The only chance I envision for a guilty plea is if he becomes terrified of the death penalty. Or if his parents fear the DP and convince him to plead G. But even if convicted and given the DP, there may (will) be innocence project types to take his case and provide him with attention for years, probably decades.

Geragos was semi-hysterical at the “presumption of guilt” he sensed from Cuomo and his panelists on Newsnation last night. I can see it coming…defenders of this guy regardless of the evidence. Granted, our legal system presumes his innocence for trial purposes, putting burden of proof on prosecutors. But when faced with evidence, it blows my mind how some defend an alleged criminal to the nth degree by poking holes and inserting outrageous alternatives to attempt reasonable doubt. I particularly hate victim smearing.

Don't @ me. JMO.

Except, when someone defends presumption of innocence, just as when they defend any civil liberties, be it warrant protection, exclusionary rules, double jeopardy, speech, self incrimination, right to bear arms, privacy, threshodls on locking you up for mental illness, you name it: the example or case used is often nasty. But it doesn't change the fact that those civil liberties and protections are there to protect all of us.

So you and I, who are not going to be jurors or triers of fact, do not need to presume this guy innocent. But within the justice system we do absolutely want him to be presumed innocent, and we want the evidence used to be strictly only that allowed, because the same rules would apply to us if wrongly suspected or charged with something

 

[BlueTunes]

The only weird thing I noticed after reading the affidavit is that DM didn't call the cops after meeting a black dressed and hooded intruder after 4 AM. It's not normal despite it's a party house. She was frozen in terror, manage to lock the door but fail to alert LE. Only the motive for the murders is more mysterious than this.

It’s also not normal for 4 college kids to get brutally murdered with a knife but here we are.

 

[chrisinmd]

This is why I can't watch her. I've tried more than once.



I listened to an interview with a Retired Det. and loosely quoting, Bundy and others like him, would not have gotten as far as they did had they committed their crimes today. Today, surveillance is everywhere. It's basically "1984". People even have hidden trail cams on wooded property. Whole surveillance systems in their homes. These were 20-year-old kids. Invincible. I didn't lock my doors til I was much older and my 2nd s/o was so anal about it that I finally got into the habit of doing so as well (of course they had lived in a large city with far more violent crime, for several years, prior to returning to the hills).

Agree you would have to be very lucky to do what Bundy did today. have to be able to avoid cameras and leaving DNA.

Is there a active serial killer today that we know with a high body count that has managed to evade all our crime fighting technology?

 

[Cassady]

From criminal attorneys that I have seen give there two cents on this they have all said this case (as of what the public knows at this time) is not a small dunk. It is very circumstantial with many holes. They dont have an eye witness, the dna on the sheath doesn't prove HE was there on a sheath that he may of touched at some point, could have been stolen. The Elantra was originally said to be 2011-2013 only changed when they linked a 2015 to KCB. Moscow doesn't not have very many cell towers and a good attorney and team can argue the accuracy very easily. So his cell was off during the murders, they will argue that with his background he would of also known to it it off during the alleged stalking drive by's.

Even if LE knows KCB did it, that doesnt matter...what matter is what they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Taylor is brilliant and all she needs is one person out of 12 to plant that reasonable doubt with...one

Totally agree...IMO, all of the "pretty blonde" and the "he must hate having a female attorney" etc do not hold water from my thinking. MOO
I dont think he feels that way at all, I think with this ladies stellar track record and professionalism I personally think he is happy and has restored some of his faith in a possible non guilty verdict.

I have read several people on here say if they were the family they would want the details from the murder and the reason, all of this would have to come from the killer thru a plea deal taking the death penalty off the table.
How many here (if this were your children) would sign of for that sort of a deal between the killer and the prosecuter?

The cell phone data is weak....IMO. Between Moscow and Pullman there might 3-5 cell towers in the city limits of the two towns. Perhaps only one in Moscow.
Probably good to show direction of travel, but not to pin point an exact location, thus the strained wording found in the PCA on this issue.

However, the defendant's DNA on knife sheath left at the scene of a stabbing is going to be hard to shake, unless the sample was collected after the defendant had been identified. Even then, tyring to show that someone in LE planted the defendant's DNA on the sheath is going to be an uphill climb in front of a rural, DP qualified jury...IMO

 

[MikeHammer911]

Where are you getting hooded from? There was only a mask covering his nose and mouth

Yes, sorry I used "hooded" instead of masked. The point is that it was not a normal encounter despite being a party house.

 

[10ofRods]

Can anyone enlighten me about a few questions I have about the DNA source? Can the defense lawyer dismiss the evidence if there's no other sample to be tested by the defense team?

And - a biology question actually - all our characteristics as human are encoded on a DNA string right? So can you draw a picture of the murdered based of the genes found on that DNA? Like ethnicity, sex, hair color, eyes color, and more?

If the lab did not retain a sample of the DNA it tested, that's a huge problem - it's retained in vials and all labs know to keep vials for the defense.

Sometimes the defense is upset that "not enough" testing was done or not enough vials available. In that case, Judge would probably order the sheath to be sent to an independent lab, to make new vials of samples, and then send one third to the defense, one third to the prosecution and keep a reference sample (in case the defense squawks again). At some point, the defense may try to claim that the DNA on the sheath is inconclusive, but probably will dig itself a hole by trying to convince a jury of that.

I think it will turn out that BK's DNA will turn up other places (and *has* turned up other places) at the crime scene. A PCA is supposed to tap into the original crime scene analysis and the original warrants (this is a probable cause for the arrest of a particular person - there were at least 50 other warrants served very soon after the murders, I'm sure data is still coming in).

As to your last question, the answer is "sort of." There's one company that has patented a DNA-human body reconstruction software program that draws on a host of SNP markers (specific alleles of genes) to reconstruct face and other characteristics. The results are controversial because we aren't sure we even know *all* of the genes involved in, say, eye color or hair color. Some genes get turned off, some get turned on; some of this is done by other genes; some genes go "rogue"; the genes get turned on and off by the environment, but also by various processes in fetal and childhood development). That being said, here are some Parabon reconstructions where they later found the perp:

Police Predictions - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service

snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com

What do you think? Very interested in opinions on this.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Is BK's info on idaho mycourts been hidden? All I see is the traffic violation.

Why, yes it is now hidden! Good catch.

Yesterday there was info from his first hearing in Latah County. No court papers or anything like that, but good information was included. I captured a few screenshots and shared them on Twitter at the time. Cannot share here on WS any longer since the information has been taken down from the Idaho Courts website, so nothing to link back to.

I was able to search it up the other day, but it's not there today. Hopefully, it will be back on Monday. Maybe they are updating the site with information or something.

If you go to this site and scroll down the case documents are linked.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[YepperBepper]

I mean, 12x in the area tells the story it was either one or all of them who lived there.

It's an area full of off campus housing with a lot of young men and women ..and sorority sisters. So, unless a link is found or he admits it, there's no way to tell if they were targeted, imho.

Stalking. Yes. Them, specifically...maybe not at the begining (or maybe), but something made him choose them? The way they looked. Easy access to the home?

 

[gizmobtj]

The front door is on Queens and maybe the Cul de Sac is on Kings. (I think at one time the Cul de Sac looped around) So, now King is some remnant or even a remnant name. Nevertheless, DD would probably know this.

500 Queen Rd · 500 Queen Rd, Moscow, ID 83843

Building

goo.gl

It wouldn't have mattered because the exact address would have still sent DoorDash to the right place just like Google Maps does

 

[loganlocal]

He stalked the house/area 12 times at least. He knew exactly who was there. So the attack was targeted as LE said.

Have we considered possibility that it was actually MORE than 12 times, but BK left his phone behind/off/in airplane mode etc. on other occasions? Perhaps some stalking/casing was more planned and some more opportunistic. MOO, but "at least 12 times" makes me feel like there are likely way more that are less trackable/easily identifiable and there was not much restraint, if any, to leave space/time between visits/observations of the victim(s).

BCK wanted to go in Army in high school, was he rejected? Usually young men can get a free education if they go to the service

Just felt the need to add - young women, also.

 

[gizmobtj]

The front door is on Queens and maybe the Cul de Sac is on Kings. (I think at one time the Cul de Sac looped around) So, now King is some remnant or even a remnant name. Nevertheless, DD would probably know this.

500 Queen Rd · 500 Queen Rd, Moscow, ID 83843

Building

goo.gl

It wouldn't have mattered because the exact address would have still sent DoorDash to the right place just like Google Maps does

 

[Nila Aella]

IMO, she may not have seen him enter since, as others have pointed out, if she was sat on the sofa she would not have had a clear view of the kitchen/point of entry. She was also on her phone so watching videos and distracted.

I believe that the PCA is unequivocal on the order of the murders - KG and MM were first (between 4:04 and 4:12), XK and EC were second (between 4:12 and until he exits shortly after 4:17, and before 4:20).

BK was still outside at 4:04 making his three point turn. JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

 

[kittythehare]

From criminal attorneys that I have seen give there two cents on this they have all said this case (as of what the public knows at this time) is not a slam dunk. It is very circumstantial with many holes. They don't have an eye witness, the DNA on the sheath doesn't prove HE was there, just that he may of touched at some point, could have been stolen. The Elantra was originally said to be 2011-2013 only changed when they linked a 2015 to KCB. Moscow doesn't not have very many cell towers and a good attorney and team can argue the accuracy very easily. So his cell was off during the murders, they will argue that with his background he would of also known to it it off during the alleged stalking drive by's. Again this is based on (as of what the public knows at this time)

Even if LE knows KCB did it, that doesnt matter...what matter is what they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Taylor is brilliant and all she needs is one person out of 12 to plant that reasonable doubt with...just one

Totally agree...IMO, all of the "pretty blonde" and the "he must hate having a female attorney" etc do not hold water from my thinking. MOO
I don't think he feels that way at all, I think with this ladies stellar track record and professionalism I personally think he is happy and has restored some of his faith in a possible non guilty verdict.

I have read several people on here say if they were the family they would want the details from the murder and the reason, all of this would have to come from the killer thru a plea deal taking the death penalty off the table.
How many here (if this were your children) would sign off for that sort of a deal between the killer and the prosecutor? I wonder if the parents of the victims would come to this agreement?

Can the dP even be taken off the table realistically?
I don't see how it can.
Will there be a DP hearing whether he pleads guilty or not?
Is it not automatic?
Not like Parkland..
Not like Illinois?

 

[whowy]

There's been discussion about how this was likely not the act of a first-time killer. There's an open case in Atlanta where a woman was brutally and brazenly stabbed in a public park at night in July 2021 -- her dog was also stabbed. I thought she was killed by someone close to her -- the attack was vicious and seemed personal. But nobody has been arrested and her partner and others have been interviewed numerous times. It seems like the trail is cold.

I'm not sure what BK's connection to Atlanta might be -- there doesn't seem to be anything that we know about his life that suggested that he ever would have gone there. But, there are a lot of similarities to this case... I just wondered if anybody following this case was following that one also and had thoughts about it.

Police seek clues after woman and dog killed in Atlanta park
''ATLANTA -- Investigators sought video from homes and businesses near a popular Atlanta park as divers searched a pond in their quest to solve the stabbing death of a parkgoer who was walking her dog.

Katherine Janness, 40, was found dead in Piedmont Park around 1 a.m. Wednesday. Police say her dog was also killed. No arrests have been made.''

''Janness was found stabbed multiple times and Atlanta police Deputy Chief Charles Hampton described the scene as “gruesome.”

Here's the link to the websleuth thread:

GA - Katherine Janness, 40, walking dog, both fatally stabbed, Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 28 July 2021

Police seek clues after woman and dog killed in Atlanta park ''ATLANTA -- Investigators sought video from homes and businesses near a popular Atlanta park as divers searched a pond in their quest to solve the stabbing death of a parkgoer who was walking her dog. Katherine Janness, 40, was found...

www.websleuths.com

I had been following the case because the victim is from my neck of the woods. MOO, based on information released so far, I don't feel there's a connection. My opinion may change if autopsy details from Idaho are ever released.

 

[wary]

This has probably already been asked and cleared, but this IS going at 1,000 MPH.
Do they know who the Door Dash delivery person was and has that person been cleared? We can assume it was not BK?

Yes. That’s in the PCA. “Kernodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m. (law enforcement identified the DoorDash delivery driver who reported this information).”

 

[NuttMegg]

No way can I keep up!

Have you guys talked about what LE's strategy could be in keeping details about the placement of E's body redacted, or secret?

 

[AngTxGal]

Can anyone enlighten me about a few questions I have about the DNA source? Can the defense lawyer dismiss the evidence if there's no other sample to be tested by the defense team?

And - a biology question actually - all our characteristics as human are encoded on a DNA string right? So can you draw a picture of the murdered based of the genes found on that DNA? Like ethnicity, sex, hair color, eyes color, and more?

I do not know if the DNA match can be dismissed if there isn’t enough for the defense to do an independent test.
My guess is there is enough, and it may have been replicated to create a larger sample before it was tested.

All of our physical traits are coded by locations on our DNA, yes.
A profile of physical features can be created based on a person’s genetic code, and there are companies that do that quicker and more accurately every year.
It is called Forensic DNA Phenotyping and has had some issues with the legality of use due to privacy issues.

Here is one article 2018 from the Smithsonian

There would always be limitations, because some genes are turn on or off depending on things we are exposed to during our lives. For example- A person may have a genetic code to be six feet tall, but they were malnourished as a child and did not receive enough Calcium, so they may not reach the height their code would make you expect.
Nutrition, environmental pollutants, poison exposure to children or developing babies, would limit the potential our DNA may show.

JMO