Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[FrostedGlass]

ETA: I should have included Chadwell's first name, James. in the above post.

I wonder how the autopsy report will come into play. Were they able to determine a time of death?

I can't remember when it was completed/filed but it wasn't sealed until March 28. When documents are sealed, is it only the public who can't see them or are attorneys also excluded from seeing them?

 

[Boxer]

I have some problems with this case. There are some unanswered questions. Is Richard Allen the murderer? Only he knows that. People make good points about the timing of his placement in the area, and the unspent round near one of the bodies. I cannot explain that.

For myself, the main question I would want answered is this case is:

How do we know the killer was not already on the other side of the bridge? The only thing that makes sense is that Liberty German and Abigail Williams must have seen Richard Allen around them earlier, following and lurking behind them, but not immediately behind them, due to the 2:07 picture of Abigail Williams on the bridge.

RA lied. His path down the trail would have crossed theirs if he had walked back to a bench as he said. MOO he didn’t know he had been seen.
Lie would have might worked without witness seeing both him and the two girls on the trail.
However his lie never was tested, and has lain dormant for 5 years since police lost track of their prime suspect.

 

[Megnut]

AND maybe just as important, HE PLACED HIMSELF THERE at the time. That is going to be almost impossible for the defense to overcome.

Bridge-crossing, sweater-wearing Ninjas.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Per the RL affidavit, "GDTH" was spoken near the end of the 43 second video. In the RA affidavit, it states the words were spoken, the girls began down the hill, and then the video ends. Imo, there is not any more audio of BG's voice. I think LE has said that, too, although I can't remember the source.

Source for this was TL in the HLN special and in the last episode of the podcast DTH when he is interviewed by reporter Barbara MacDonald. He says that to his knowledge, "Guys....down the hill" are the only words spoken on the video by BG.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Source for this was TL in the HLN special and in the last episode of the podcast DTH when he is interviewed by reporter Barbara MacDonald. He says that to his knowledge, "Guys....down the hill" are the only words spoken on the video by BG.

Boo. Could 4 words be enough for forensic voice analysis?

 

[JosieMae]

I don't believe we've had confirmation of when the statement was taken. If so we have, do you have a link?

You are correct. We do not have the date of RA's first statement to LE. Only that it was sometime in 2017. Thanks for pointing that out.

Here is a link from 2019 that provides a timeline for when the first photo, first audio, and subsequent videos were released.

Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

More than two years after the killing of two Delphi teens, Indiana State Police made additional pieces of evidence public during a 2019 case update.

www.jconline.com

In light of this, it will be interesting to discover exactly when RA spoke to the CO as that may shed light on his motivation to do so.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I can't remember where we left off on posting the court records but here's the update from yesterday (the 2/17 hearing is the omnibus date):

01/23/2023	Stipulation Filed Stipulation Regarding Defendant's Verified Motion for Change of Venue from the County Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Date: 01/20/2023
01/23/2023	Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 01/13/2023
01/24/2023	Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 1/23/2023 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland
02/17/2023	Hearing Session: 02/17/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
03/20/2023	Jury Trial Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Rescheduled Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: First Setting

 

[MsSleuth]

I wonder if they were able to identify the gun make/model from the video as he got closer. It has been rumored they were looking for that specific make/model of gun.

 

[MistyWaters]

Boo. Could 4 words be enough for forensic voice analysis?

I doubt it, especially if the audio quality was enhanced in order to add clarity to the words and possibly separate that from background noise. For every expert witness the defence always seems to come up with another to add the possibility the voice was distorted during recording. I don’t think the strength of a prosecution will weigh heavily on four words nor the image in the video, they’ve got something more. JMO

This snippet refers to using evidence from a recorded telephone call, I would assume very similar to a recorded voice.

Voice Analysis Should Be Used with Caution in Court

Although voice recognition is often presented as evidence in legal cases, its scientific basis can be shaky

www.scientificamerican.com

“……One of the main hurdles voice analysts have to face is the poor quality of recorded fragments. “The telephone signal does not carry enough information to allow for fine-grained distinctions of speech sounds. You would need a band twice as broad to tell certain consonants apart, such as f and s or m and n,” said Andrea Paoloni, a scientist at the Ugo Bordoni Foundation and the foremost forensic phoneticist in Italy until his death in November 2015. To make things worse, recorded messages are often noisy, short and can be years or even decades old. In some cases, simulating the context of a phone call can be particularly challenging. Imagine recreating a call placed in a crowded movie theater, using an old cell phone or one made by an obscure foreign brand….”

 

[CNYDarkStar]

There's more to the video that hasn't been released yet

So you're saying people on this website have seen this supposed video.? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

I have some problems with this case. There are some unanswered questions. Is Richard Allen the murderer? Only he knows that. People make good points about the timing of his placement in the area, and the unspent round near one of the bodies. I cannot explain that.

For myself, the main question I would want answered is this case is:

How do we know the killer was not already on the other side of the bridge? The only thing that makes sense is that Liberty German and Abigail Williams must have seen Richard Allen around them earlier, following and lurking behind them, but not immediately behind them, due to the 2:07 picture of Abigail Williams on the bridge.

I get that this maybe is not intuitive if you didn't ruin your brain with years of legal study and analysis but as a technical analysis, based on what we know, it is pretty much proven beyond reasonable doubt that 'Bridge Guy' did felony murder

1. We see him on video abduct the victims who see a gun

2. He tells the victims to go in the direction of the crime scene

3. The victims were found murdered at the crime scene.

A jury will almost certainly accept all of the above, and make the natural and obvious inference that "Bridge Guy" abducted the girls and was directly involved in their murders, even if there is the possibility others were involved.

IMO the defence will also accept the above.

Therefore the only issue at trial is proving RA = Bridge Guy

This is the advantage of charging felony murder. It is not lesser - it just makes the job easier - that is the point of codifying laws in this way

M

Who is "We".? I'm not aware of any video that shows him abducting them. I'm pretty sure I would have seen this by now if it were out there.

 

[Slawsb]

Who is "We".? I'm not aware of any video that shows him abducting them. I'm pretty sure I would have seen this by now if it were out there.

It came out in the probable cause that one of the girls said gun in the video.The video ends as they go down the hill.
It hasn't been shown just referenced

 

[FrostedGlass]

It came out in the probable cause that one of the girls said gun in the video.The video ends as they go down the hill.
It hasn't been shown just referenced

In the PC is the first time we've seen this part that I bolded, isn't it?

 

[Yemelyan]

Boo. Could 4 words be enough for forensic voice analysis?

In the podcast DTH they had a segment where the producer related reaching out to a voice analysis expert who said these particular 4 words are not enough to draw firm conclusions. But that was just one expert's opinion, of course and as @MistyWaters pointed out, there are other things that factor in, such as how much the audio had to be manipulated.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Allen County jury to hear Delphi murder case, judge says

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – The jurors who will decide the fate of Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen will come from Allen County. In a ruling handed down Tuesday, Special Judge Fran Gull said jurors w…

fox59.com

In a ruling handed down Tuesday, Special Judge Fran Gull said jurors would be drawn from the northeast Indiana county, with the trial being conducted in Carroll County, where the infamous murder case took place.

The Carroll County Council has pegged the cost for the murder trial at $2.3 million.

 

[Yemelyan]

In the PC is the first time we've seen this part that I bolded, isn't it?

I believe so. TL had earlier (in the Carroll County Comet Q&As) stated that the "Guys...down the hill" was said at the south end of the High Bridge and also said that there was no other usable audio from the man (in the HLN/DTH specials), so we could have maybe guessed that this was a fact, but confirmation that the video ends as they go down the hill was a new piece from the PC, to my knowledge.

 

[Yemelyan]

Allen County jury to hear Delphi murder case, judge says

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – The jurors who will decide the fate of Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen will come from Allen County. In a ruling handed down Tuesday, Special Judge Fran Gull said jurors w…

fox59.com

Okay, so the Fort Wayne area?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Okay, so the Fort Wayne area?

Yes. That's where she presides, too.

 

[electricuncalm]

Okay, so the Fort Wayne area?

As a former Allen county resident and current st Joseph county resident I’m so disappointed in the life choices I made that led to me being naturally excluded from this jury pool

 

[Laughing]

Allen County jury to hear Delphi murder case, judge says

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – The jurors who will decide the fate of Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen will come from Allen County. In a ruling handed down Tuesday, Special Judge Fran Gull said jurors w…

fox59.com

@Falling Down

iirc our poster Falling Down is a Fort Wayne resident?

Toured the Monon High Bridge for us all a few years ago.