Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

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I am willing to go along with the idea that police have the right person because there was probable cause to arrest him. However, at this time it does not seem like the right person to me. Unfortunately, it is probably going to be a long time before we know what other evidence police have against RA.

I really thought the killer would have something wrong with their hands. But RA seems to play the game of pool well.

From all the videos I have seen online of the Monon High Bridge, would you walk across that bridge with your hands in your pockets?
 
Not a chance. And yet, oddly, both BG and Abby are pictured doing so.
Good point about Abigail Williams last picture with her hands in her pockets on the Monon High Bridge. I can only think what I do about the Monon High Bridge from videos I have seen online. If the evidence supports this is the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, then that must be the answer. The case is solved then.

At this time, I would go along with what police are saying, but I have to admit if I were a detective on this case right now I would be sitting there shaking my head about it, because to me it does not seem like RA is the killer.
 
Good point about Abigail Williams last picture with her hands in her pockets on the Monon High Bridge. I can only think what I do about the Monon High Bridge from videos I have seen online. If the evidence supports this is the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, then that must be the answer. The case is solved then.

At this time, I would go along with what police are saying, but I have to admit if I were a detective on this case right now I would be sitting there shaking my head about it, because to me it does not seem like RA is the killer.
BBM

Or at least not the lone killer.
 
We should hear something tomorrow about where the jury will come from. If the attorneys can't come to a decision, will she choose?

RA's attorney could not have been pleased with Judge Gull's decision on no change of venue. In the last Murder Sheet with atty Shay Hughes, he discusses this and potential problems with getting a fair trial. He also talks about the "presumption of innocence."

 
I am willing to go along with the idea that police have the right person because there was probable cause to arrest him. However, at this time it does not seem like the right person to me. Unfortunately, it is probably going to be a long time before we know what other evidence police have against RA.

I really thought the killer would have something wrong with their hands. But RA seems to play the game of pool well.

From all the videos I have seen online of the Monon High Bridge, would you walk across that bridge with your hands in your pockets?
Yes; I always walk with my hands in my pockets. I wouldn't change my habits to walk across the bridge, especially if I'd been over it before.
 
Yes; I always walk with my hands in my pockets. I wouldn't change my habits to walk across the bridge, especially if I'd been over it before.
Along that train of thought, RA definitely walked that bridge as if he'd done so many times before. I recall everyone here in the beginning having the same impression of the BG video. Some of the early theories were that BG might have been someone who spent a lot of time at the park, possibly volunteered, etc. In retrospect, those were fairly accurate guesses.
 
At this time, I would go along with what police are saying, but I have to admit if I were a detective on this case right now I would be sitting there shaking my head about it, because to me it does not seem like RA is the killer.
Probably if you were a detective on this case right now you would know what was discovered in searching RA's property, including his shed and that hole neighbors saw dug in the yard. You'd know why RA and wife sat in cars multiple hours while their house was forensically examined for evidence carried out. Isn't that specifically, not just how it "seems"?
 
Probably if you were a detective on this case right now you would know what was discovered in searching RA's property, including his shed and that hole neighbors saw dug in the yard. You'd know why RA and wife sat in cars multiple hours while their house was forensically examined for evidence carried out. Isn't that specifically, not just how it "seems"?
I think it depends on the evidence found.
 
I am willing to go along with the idea that police have the right person because there was probable cause to arrest him. However, at this time it does not seem like the right person to me. Unfortunately, it is probably going to be a long time before we know what other evidence police have against RA.

I really thought the killer would have something wrong with their hands. But RA seems to play the game of pool well.

From all the videos I have seen online of the Monon High Bridge, would you walk across that bridge with your hands in your pockets?
All photos of men walking across bridge that I have seen seem to have hand in pockets. RA was totally familiar with walking at least to the first platform.
 
Good point about Abigail Williams last picture with her hands in her pockets on the Monon High Bridge. I can only think what I do about the Monon High Bridge from videos I have seen online. If the evidence supports this is the person who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, then that must be the answer. The case is solved then.

At this time, I would go along with what police are saying, but I have to admit if I were a detective on this case right now I would be sitting there shaking my head about it, because to me it does not seem like RA is the killer.
MOO..

you think they have the wrong guy, even with the bullet evidence? The .40 cal unspent round found near Liberty, whose ejection markings match those produced by RA’s (fairly uncommon brand and caliber) pistol? When the guy placed himself at the bridge trail on that date, and he owns a jacket like the one BG was wearing, and—importantly—he was seen entering the MHBT but none of those walking later on saw him leave?

We aren’t going to get a video of him committing the actual murders, and we may not get DNA, but beyond reasonable doubt? I think this circumstantial evidence is incredibly strong… MHOO/MY speculation only.
 
I also don't believe there needs to be another person who killed them for RA to be charged with felony murder. I am asking "why would you" charge someone with a crime that's harder to prove than one that is easier to prove if you had evidence of the killing.

The 2017 and 2021 appear identical on this point.
Typically you charge the higher crime (crime with more elements) so you can plea out to the lesser charge; at least in my experience.
 
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Typically you charge the higher crime (crime with more elements) so you can plea out to the lesser charge; at least in my experience.

Honestly I think they just charged the crime where they have the entire crime on video.

The jury will infer and agree in the first 5mins of the case that "bridge guy" did felony murder.
 
Honestly I think they just charged the crime where they have the entire crime on video.

The jury will infer and agree in the first 5mins of the case that "bridge guy" did felony murder.
MOO it doesn’t matter whether he personally murdered them, or some other perpetrator involved did, once he committed the felony of kidnap then he is culpable for their subsequent murders.
 
Honestly I think they just charged the crime where they have the entire crime on video.

The jury will infer and agree in the first 5mins of the case that "bridge guy" did felony murder.
That's if it goes to jury. The prosecutor can offer a plea at any time and depending on how strong the evidence typically depends on the offer. Which is why there are typically two charges/multiple charges initially. The prosecutor can amend the charges at any time prior to either agreement of plea or before trial. It can actually even be done during the initial parts of trial. The jury will only be asked to decided on whether the evidence presented by the prosecutor meets the terms of the charges once everything has been presented and they are given specific instructions by the judge. Based on the fact that this is just barely past the arrest phase there is a lot that can change between now and when a jury is given the case for deliberation. I know when I charged people after arrest I often added several charges that would apply even if they overlapped one another. Then when I would meet with the prosecutor for pre trial that's when they would initially decide to offer a plea if the case looked really weak or if it was strong we would go forward with the initial charges. Then after pretrial (which is only the witnesses, arresting officer/officers, defendant, attorneys and judge present. The judge is heading the case to make sure there is sufficient everywhere to move forward in the judicious process.) the prosecutor would go more thoroughly over the evidence and perhaps do further investigation before going to actual trial. Again they may choose to offer a plea at this point based on the strength of the case or other mitigating factors. Remembering that to make an arrest you only need probable cause which is determined by the threshold of would a reasonable person look at this evidence and come to the conclusion that this crime was committed by this particular individual. The prosecutor is the one that has to provide evidence to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt there's. Again all of this plays largely into the initial charges and the actual charges presented to the jury. So while a video would be enough for an arrest it may not meet the criteria a prosecutor needs for prosecution. I would say with this case there seems to be plenty of circumstantial evidence along with some direct evidence that the public is aware of. However based on the length of this case my guess would be there is plenty of evidence that the public is not aware of. Every step over the next week's and months will bring us that much closer to the answers.
 
That's if it goes to jury. The prosecutor can offer a plea at any time and depending on how strong the evidence typically depends on the offer. Which is why there are typically two charges/multiple charges initially. The prosecutor can amend the charges at any time prior to either agreement of plea or before trial. It can actually even be done during the initial parts of trial. The jury will only be asked to decided on whether the evidence presented by the prosecutor meets the terms of the charges once everything has been presented and they are given specific instructions by the judge. Based on the fact that this is just barely past the arrest phase there is a lot that can change between now and when a jury is given the case for deliberation. I know when I charged people after arrest I often added several charges that would apply even if they overlapped one another. Then when I would meet with the prosecutor for pre trial that's when they would initially decide to offer a plea if the case looked really weak or if it was strong we would go forward with the initial charges. Then after pretrial (which is only the witnesses, arresting officer/officers, defendant, attorneys and judge present. The judge is heading the case to make sure there is sufficient everywhere to move forward in the judicious process.) the prosecutor would go more thoroughly over the evidence and perhaps do further investigation before going to actual trial. Again they may choose to offer a plea at this point based on the strength of the case or other mitigating factors. Remembering that to make an arrest you only need probable cause which is determined by the threshold of would a reasonable person look at this evidence and come to the conclusion that this crime was committed by this particular individual. The prosecutor is the one that has to provide evidence to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt there's. Again all of this plays largely into the initial charges and the actual charges presented to the jury. So while a video would be enough for an arrest it may not meet the criteria a prosecutor needs for prosecution. I would say with this case there seems to be plenty of circumstantial evidence along with some direct evidence that the public is aware of. However based on the length of this case my guess would be there is plenty of evidence that the public is not aware of. Every step over the next week's and months will bring us that much closer to the answers.
I agree with you in most cases, but I do not think the State is going to entertain a plea deal in this high profile, vicious crime.

If the families of Abby and Libby push for a possible plea, maybe, but again, I don't see that happening here unless they feel it would be less traumatizing than sitting through potential weeks, months of a grueling trial.

MOO
 
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