Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

[Amaz0nia]

They’ve been front page news yet haven’t been seen for three weeks. I think it’s very likely they’ve managed to smuggle themselves out via a port and now are in some off-grid hippy commune in northern Portugal, planning to cross into North Africa, where the money will go further and she can wear a veil and speak Arabic.

If they’re in the UK, the 10k reward will flush them out, but I strongly doubt they are.

MG dosnt have a passport nor does the baby, it would be very difficult getting into north africa without one unless they have connections that can get him a fake one or someone to smuggle them through the moroccan border.

 

[Cherwell]

IMO they don’t want the public’s help - they want anyone who might be sheltering them to turn them in.

I am deeply concerned at the approach taken by LE in this case.
Firstly they announced public that this little homeless family who are possibly living in a tent, unlikely, but that is what they have implied repeatedly, are carrying large sums of cash thus exposing them to every grifter out there.

They even provided a description of the tent.

How easy it would be for someone to attack them and rob them.

Neither Constance's background nor Mark's crimes as a 14 year old , for which he has served his time appear even slightly relevant to their current situation.

Adding such a large reward makes them a target.
Quite honestly I have never felt so horrified by an action taken by the Met, well, maybe that is an exaggeration... but this is not okay by any stretch of the imagination.

Missing?
Are they?
Are they adults or children?
A 35 year old woman with a partner 13 years her senior who may or may not have prior experience of parenthood and childbirth are not the same as two 12 year olds in a similar predicament.
Who is missing them, exactly?
Who, if anybody reported them as 'missing'?
HUNTED is the more appropriate term IMHO and it is morally and ethically wrong, also IMHO

Agree, and I think it also increases the likelihood of people helping them and NOT dobbing them in.
It wouldn't be a crime to shelter them or assist them in some way, and not tell the police.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

MG dosnt have a passport nor does the baby, it would be very difficult getting into north africa without one unless they have connections that can get him a fake one or someone to smuggle them through the moroccan border.

That comment about the passport only came from a 'source' so there is no actual proof he doesn't.

Rapist partner of aristocrat missing with their newborn ‘unable to leave country’

Previous reports suggest the pair could already be overseas

www.independent.co.uk

But either way, a few grand will buy you a decent forgery if you know the right people!

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Could Eastbourne be the place to look now?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid036H6dDR9fnJAnpLbxeTjuYTPczTNRmwHWAq9oB2BJP1owwNviLR99a7vj3qUixg6Kl&id=100064792623914

 

[amaisa]

Missing?
Are they?
Are they adults or children?
A 35 year old woman with a partner 13 years her senior who may or may not have prior experience of parenthood and childbirth are not the same as two 12 year olds in a similar predicament.
Who is missing them, exactly?
Who, if anybody reported them as 'missing'?
HUNTED is the more appropriate term IMHO and it is morally and ethically wrong, also IMHO

Hunted indeed. I've seen no media reports that MG had committed any crimes since the age of 14 and he's nearly 50 now. Yet the police are treating them like fugitives on the run from prison. All the information the met have released suggests theyre just a family wanting to live off grid. Health care is optional and yet CM seems to be vilified for choosing not to receive any.

IMO the police are forcing them further underground and to potentially take unnecessary risks by plastering them all over the media talking about how they're carrying lots of cash and offering rewards for information. They're not a missing couple, they've chosen this for themselves.

 

[kittythehare]

Hunted indeed. I've seen no media reports that MG had committed any crimes since the age of 14 and he's nearly 50 now. Yet the police are treating them like fugitives on the run from prison. All the information the met have released suggests theyre just a family wanting to live off grid. Health care is optional and yet CM seems to be vilified for choosing not to receive any.

IMO the police are forcing them further underground and to potentially take unnecessary risks by plastering them all over the media talking about how they're carrying lots of cash and offering rewards for information. They're not a missing couple, they've chosen this for themselves.

I fully agree.
My fear is that the approach chosen by LE will endanger them.
If it does who is accountable?

 

[Caroclaud]

There must be clear and concerning reasons why LE are searching for this couple, probably safeguarding issues we are not aware of and which aren’t in the public domain.

I don’t agree with romanticising this situation at all <modsnip - no link for info stated as fact>

From MSM reports, their recent lifestyle is chaotic, <modsnip - not victim friendly>

IMO our LE are justified in searching for this baby and to offer a reward shows how they are continuing to take this very seriously to protect this baby. There are probably grave concerns about how and whether they can properly care for this baby.

 

[Snoods]

Hunted indeed. I've seen no media reports that MG had committed any crimes since the age of 14 and he's nearly 50 now. Yet the police are treating them like fugitives on the run from prison. All the information the met have released suggests theyre just a family wanting to live off grid. Health care is optional and yet CM seems to be vilified for choosing not to receive any.

IMO the police are forcing them further underground and to potentially take unnecessary risks by plastering them all over the media talking about how they're carrying lots of cash and offering rewards for information. They're not a missing couple, they've chosen this for themselves.

I agree. <modsnip - not victim friendly> The RAPIST ON THE RUN headlines seem meant to incite hysteria, like the guy literally just raped someone and is trying to escape. This 200 LE manhunt is so bizarre. What laws have they even broken? There is no indication the baby is even being mistreated.

 

[sunnynz]

In my opinion there’s just no way police would be posting rewards etc without a good reason. I believe there must be something they believe is putting at least the baby in danger. <modsnip>

Here in NZ we have child safety laws with a central aim of doing what’s in the best interest of the child. That gets placed above anything else (especially in custody situations). I am guessing there might be similar laws in the UK?

My theory is that the above applies but that police haven’t been explicit in saying this because they fear it will incite the adults in the situation to do something desperate.

 

[Snoods]

In my opinion there’s just no way police would be posting rewards etc without a good reason. I believe there must be something they believe is putting at least the baby in danger. <modsnip>

Here in NZ we have child safety laws with a central aim of doing what’s in the best interest of the child. That gets placed above anything else (especially in custody situations). I am guessing there might be similar laws in the UK?

My theory is that the above applies but that police haven’t been explicit in saying this because they fear it will incite the adults in the situation to do something desperate.

I hate to say I hope so because that would mean the baby is in danger, but otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

I think it might be more difficult to get public cooperation when they really are just an adult couple with a baby doing nothing wrong.

 

[kittythehare]

I hate to say I hope so because that would mean the baby is in danger, but otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

Right now all three are in danger because police have announced to the world via all media they are carrying large sums of money, their own, and described the tent they may be staying in in some detail and that they don't have their own transport.
This is the problem.

 

[JumpingFrog]

No victim shaming, but also mum matters! She was pregnant, she gave birth, she's in the fourth trimester as we call it. She's still bleeding and healing from pregnancy, she's at risk of infection, malnutrition and problems like mastitis - I really really hope she is and will be okay. But keep her and her health in your thoughts too guys.

 

[CocktailQueen]

10k is probably cheaper than what all the police forces are spending on manpower to hunt them down!

 

[DetectiveLawless]

<modsnip - rude> Plus, why buy a tent and cart it around? They have a newborn, that's more than enough to deal with <modsnip - rude>

<modsnip - rude> I also think the baby has already been in danger to be honest, or at least put at risk. Sure, babies are resilient but having to suffer by being on the move 24/7 without a safe (and sanitary) stable place of residence isn't good.

I'm still amazed how they've been to 5 or 6 towns, been spotted numerous times, used shops, taxi's and other places yet either the police haven't bothered to arrive in time or the person reporting the sighting has left it too late allowing them to move on. It seems important to the police but not good enough for them to actually make a national song and dance about it!

<modsnip - not victim friendly>

 

[kittythehare]

<modsnip - rude> Plus, why buy a tent and cart it around? They have a newborn, that's more than enough to deal with <modsnip - rude>

<modsnip - rude> I also think the baby has already been in danger to be honest, or at least put at risk. Sure, babies are resilient but having to suffer by being on the move 24/7 without a safe (and sanitary) stable place of residence isn't good.

I'm still amazed how they've been to 5 or 6 towns, been spotted numerous times, used shops, taxi's and other places yet either the police haven't bothered to arrive in time or the person reporting the sighting has left it too late allowing them to move on. It seems important to the police but not good enough for them to actually make a national song and dance about it!

<modsnip - not victim friendly>

<modsnip - quoted post snipped>

I think the handling of this hunt will give rise to an investigation into Met tactics.

It could all have been handled quietly and respectfully.

It doesn't actually appear as though anybody at all has come forward and the 3 week old smudgy photographs have all been harvested from cctv cameras, not the general public which should IMHO cause them to reflect rather than double down.

There is no evidence that they are living in a tent btw.
If they are, they are targets, more so since everybody now knows they are travelling with cash.

 

[DetectiveLawless]

No victim shaming, but also mum matters! She was pregnant, she gave birth, she's in the fourth trimester as we call it. She's still bleeding and healing from pregnancy, she's at risk of infection, malnutrition and problems like mastitis - I really really hope she is and will be okay. But keep her and her health in your thoughts too guys.

This. All of this is being overlooked way too much. I find it very hard to believe that Constance doesn't want or need some real rest and just a short time to properly clean and take care of herself. <modsnip - not victim friendly> I really hope that changes.

 

[kittythehare]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Ordinarily, the woman loses about 1 pint of blood during and after vaginal delivery. Blood is lost because some blood vessels are opened when the placenta detaches from the uterus. The contractions of the uterus help close these vessels until the vessels can heal. Typically, cesarean delivery results in about twice the blood loss as vaginal delivery, partly because delivery requires an incision in the uterus, and a lot of blood is pumped to the uterus during pregnancy.

Excessive Uterine Bleeding at Delivery - Women's Health Issues - MSD Manual Consumer Version

Excessive Uterine Bleeding at Delivery - Learn about the causes, symptoms, diagnosis & treatment from the MSD Manuals - Medical Consumer Version.

www.msdmanuals.com

 

[DetectiveLawless]

Ordinarily, the woman loses about 1 pint of blood during and after vaginal delivery. Blood is lost because some blood vessels are opened when the placenta detaches from the uterus. The contractions of the uterus help close these vessels until the vessels can heal. Typically, cesarean delivery results in about twice the blood loss as vaginal delivery, partly because delivery requires an incision in the uterus, and a lot of blood is pumped to the uterus during pregnancy.

Excessive Uterine Bleeding at Delivery - Women's Health Issues - MSD Manual Consumer Version

Excessive Uterine Bleeding at Delivery - Learn about the causes, symptoms, diagnosis & treatment from the MSD Manuals - Medical Consumer Version.

www.msdmanuals.com

<modsnip - no link> Constance had pretty much had a medical procedure in the back of a car and hoping for the best. There also may have been zero complications and if not her first child it is likely that it could have been a quick labour.

<modsnip - no link>

At home with a baby that is weeks old you are in constant need of a water supply, shower facilities, a comfortable place to feed, a comfortable place to rest, sanitary wear for the mother, a sanitary environment for the baby. New borns sleep a lot but they damn sure make a fuss a lot too and to any woman that puts a strain on their wellbeing even if they are the most headstrong in regular life. Of course, just my opinion and first hand experience.

 

[jackal67]

Not seen for over 3 weeks after last sighting in Newhaven. By now they could be anywhere in UK, or deep in the French countryside.

I think police are losing the public interest to report them. Why would they? All that has been said is that they're concerned mother and baby are okay, but it seems that the police are after them for more than just a health check. I think they should be transparent and say what exactly the pair have done because it looks highly suspicious the way they are chasing them like they're wanted criminals.

completely agree with you on this.

 

[jackal67]

I am deeply concerned at the approach taken by LE in this case.
Firstly they announced public that this little homeless family who are possibly living in a tent, unlikely, but that is what they have implied repeatedly, are carrying large sums of cash thus exposing them to every grifter out there.

They even provided a description of the tent.

How easy it would be for someone to attack them and rob them.

Neither Constance's background nor Mark's crimes as a 14 year old , for which he has served his time appear even slightly relevant to their current situation.

Adding such a large reward makes them a target.
Quite honestly I have never felt so horrified by an action taken by the Met, well, maybe that is an exaggeration... but this is not okay by any stretch of the imagination.

Missing?
Are they?
Are they adults or children?
A 35 year old woman with a partner 13 years her senior who may or may not have prior experience of parenthood and childbirth are not the same as two 12 year olds in a similar predicament.
Who is missing them, exactly?
Who, if anybody reported them as 'missing'?
HUNTED is the more appropriate term IMHO and it is morally and ethically wrong, also IMHO

I completely agree. I am not okay with this at all.