ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[Sister Golden Hair]

We do not know if there is or isn't GPS data placing BK at the exact location of the house. We only know that his phone pinged off of the same cell tower that served the house. This is why I used the phrase “we can assume” instead of “we know”. (Edited to add: also why I wrote “if so”.)

I guess my point is that I don't think we can assume. I think it's a big stretch. imo.

 

[jepop]

I think you make a good point and one I hadn't considered. could the defense somehow raise the specter of doubt about whether she actually saw a man, 5'10" or taller, in a mask with bushy eyebrows, because really, that's as generic as it gets pretty much. imo there might be a way to cast doubt without attacking the witness. jmo.

Yes, I see your point, but not sure that's the point I'm making. Because defense could attack her basic descriptors re the man she saw - height etc- through angles such as lighting, she just woke up, she had been drinking etc, maybe she id defaulting to some generic description cos woozy etc that's fine. But that can be done without a line of questioning that focuses on what she did (went back to bed/did not call police). Defense could try to discredit by concentrating soley on what she saw and why her generic description can't be credibly relied on, without somehow suggesting that she saw no-one at all because she did not immediately call 911. As per my first post, what line does defense take with the 'why didn't you call the cops' angle? MOO Maybe I'm not making sense and that's ok!

 

[Boxer]

I think this is subjective as I noted above. I don't see his eyebrows as bushy but jMO. imo his most distinctive feature is his imo hawklike nose and forehead ridge. I think different people see different things, and the eyebrow description may not be an easy sell. IDK, I don't see it.

MOO a forehead ridge makes eyebrows more prominent, in addition to a pronounced forehead ridge BK has thick dark eyebrows. So a MOO they are a distinguishing feature.
Not sure why some posters are critical of a witness description that is in fact a good fit for the suspect who was identified long after her statement.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yes, I see your point, but not sure that's the point I'm making. Because defense could attack her basic descriptors re the man she saw - height etc- through angles such as lighting, she just woke up, she had been drinking etc, maybe she id defaulting to some generic description cos woozy etc that's fine. But that can be done without a line of questioning that focuses on what she did (went back to bed/did not call police). Defense could try to discredit by concentrating soley on what she saw and why her generic description can't be credibly relied on, without somehow suggesting that she saw no-one at all because she did not immediately call 911. As per my first post, what line does defense take with the 'why didn't you call the cops' angle? MOO Maybe I'm not making sense and that's ok!

no, I get it. I think you're making sense. I just added my own thoughts. lots of ways to go with that line of questioning.

 

[Boxer]

I guess my point is that I don't think we can assume. I think it's a big stretch. imo.

Due to CAST technology it is possible to pinpoint a cells location, not just the distance from a tower.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

MOO a forehead ridge make eyebrows more prominent, in addition to a pronounced forehead ridge BK has thick dark eyebrows. So a MOO they are a distinguishing feature.
Not sure why some posters are critical of a witness description that is in fact a good fit for the suspect who was identified long after her statement.

I'm not being critical. it's not personal. it's my own opinion, and you see the eyebrows one way and some of us see it another way. that's okay. It is important to consider that people who see things differently might be on the jury, too.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Due to CAST technology it is possible to pinpoint a cells location, not just the distance from a tower.

potentially. I know in the PCA he pinged the tower and they didn't think he was there, so I'm sure defense might jump on that. lots of expert out there and articles to read arguing the different points of it. I'm not one of them, but from what I have read in the PCA, I think that there are holes that need to be filled and that's jmo. I read everything with bard in mind. and I question accordingly.

 

[Ursamajr]

I guess my point is that I don't think we can assume. I think it's a big stretch. imo.

Someone here asked how someone would know where people would be in the house. I replied, using a picture of the actual house, hypothesizing how someone could make a judgement about where to find people in the house. <modsnip - rude>

 

[jepop]

MOO a forehead ridge make eyebrows more prominent, in addition to a pronounced forehead ridge BK has thick dark eyebrows. So a MOO they are a distinguishing feature.
Not sure why some posters are critical of a witness description that is in fact a good fit for the suspect who was identified long after her statement.

I'm not sure posters are being critical per se of DM's description. I take it as fact, that that is what she saw. MOO. For me, at least, I've just been speculating on how the defense might try to discredit the witness if she is called to give evidence about this. I also think the witness description was useful in that it supported evidence LE were finding re BK (per PCA), but LE would have found BK even without the witness statement. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I think this is subjective as I noted above. I don't see his eyebrows as bushy but jMO. imo his most distinctive feature is his imo hawklike nose and forehead ridge. I think different people see different things, and the eyebrow description may not be an easy sell. IDK, I don't see it.

The mask may have covered his nose and forehead. As you said, they are his most noticeable features so he probably selected a mask with the most coverage.

What are the chances a man with a similar height and build drove BK's car to and from the crime scene leaving BK's DNA behind but none of his own?

 

[jepop]

I guess my point is that I don't think we can assume. I think it's a big stretch. imo.

I'm assuming/anticipating? there will be more BK phone data uncovered and possibly some of that may be recovered location data via apps and what not for pre Nov 13 period (no expert). But likewise, atm IMO, the 12 pre-crime pings (referred to in PCA) do not place BK on Queen Street on each of those occasions.For the PCA, they are suggestive of more to come, IMO. The prosecution will need supporting data to go down that route. MOO

 

[Ursamajr]

I'm not sure posters are being critical per se of DM's description. I take it as fact, that that is what she saw. MOO. For me, at least, I've just been speculating on how the defense might try to discredit the witness if she is called to give evidence about this. I also think the witness description was useful in that it supported evidence LE were finding re BK (per PCA), but LE would have found BK even without the witness statement. MOO

My opinion on how they would try to discredit DM: I don’t even think defense would have to focus on discrediting what DM saw. I can see a strategy where instead they try to discredit her character. Bringing up alcohol and/or drug use - just the insinuation could be damaging depending on the jury.

I’m not saying or insinuating DM did use alcohol or drugs but we do know from the body cam footage from previous visits to the house that at least alcohol had been in or around the house in the past. Defense could bring this up as a way to discredit DM.

 

[I'm Nobody]

MOO
It probably wasn't pitch dark inside the common area/kitchen that night because of all the comings and goings with roommates on a weekend and not sure when the last one comes home. I'd guess the Good Vibes neon sign in the kitchen/common area was left on that night. There were also Christmas fairy lights around a table and string lights outside the slider doors--more low light coming in. So DM could see BK as he walked past her.

<modsnip>

MOO

Some good house lights pics in these articles:

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho murders: two roommates were at home when four students were killed

Idaho police said that two roommates were home when the four University of Idaho students were killed on early Sunday morning, but didn't call 911 until around noon.

www.foxnews.com

 

[jepop]

no, I get it. I think you're making sense. I just added my own thoughts. lots of ways to go with that line of questioning.

No worries, thank you for your response and I appreciate your thoughts. I'm just a tad stuck atm on the question of how the defense would actually use the line "why didn't you call the cops till noon", "why you go to bed" and so forth to discredit what she saw. I can only speculate that it would be in line with a character asssassination of some sort, where the insinuation is that she lied about or hallucinated seeing anyone. And if that would be the case, I have my doubts it would be fruitful for the defense. But that is MuninformedOO.

 

[Ursamajr]

MOO
It probably wasn't pitch dark inside the common area/kitchen that night because of all the comings and goings with roommates on a weekend and not sure when the last one comes home. I'd guess the Good Vibes neon sign in the kitchen/common area was left on that night. There were also Christmas fairy lights around a table and string lights outside the slider doors--more low light coming in. So DM could see BK as he walked past her.

<modsnip>

MOO

Some good house lights pics in these articles:

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

University of Idaho murders: two roommates were at home when four students were killed

Idaho police said that two roommates were home when the four University of Idaho students were killed on early Sunday morning, but didn't call 911 until around noon.

www.foxnews.com

I’ve been thinking a lot about that “Good Vibes” sign. I think it was on the north facing wall of the common room. If that is correct and if it had been on (just an assumption I am making since it was on during the police searches) then it was facing the perp when he walked towards DM. There was also a wall between the sign and where her bedroom door was. The bright fluorescent light would have been beaming into his eyes which would help obscure/shield her in the darkness behind it. At least for me, a bright light in the dark messes with visual contrast. (Edited to add: just so I don’t get clobbered - no, we don’t know if the light was on at the time of the murder. We only know that it was on during the searches in the day/s after.)

 

[Sachi]

along the same lines, I had a conversation recently about the brain filling in facts. Then I remembered 'the dress'. this is an interesting approach, imo, and if I were his attorney, I'd maybe shoot for the sweet spot of her being scared and filling in the blanks with most common things - like 5' 10", male, mask, bushy eyebrows, something along these lines, borrowing from the article about 'the dress' below.

The brain cannot be accused of epistemic modesty. It is well-known that in situations like this—where it faces profound uncertainty—it confidently fills in the gaps in knowledge by making assumptions. Usually, its assumptions are based on what it has most frequently encountered in the past. For instance, if the sensory information is more uncertain, observers will estimate object speeds to be slower than they actually are, presumably because slow objects are much more common in the environment than fast ones. (Indeed, most objects in any given field of view don’t move at all.) Color and lighting are no exception.

We Finally Know Why People Saw “the Dress” Differently

The science behind why people saw different colors.

slate.com

This is interesting. TY

 

[crumbcleaner]

A hypothetical - if DM had slept through it all, and therefore had nothing at all to add to the case, would BK have been found? Or found, but much later? What do you all think?

Yes, I think they had it narrowed with the White Elantra and BK being in such close proximity. I think they eventually would have had eyes on him and dug into his background etc. IMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Why? BK’s eyebrows are one of his most noticeable distinguishing features.

Because many men have bushy eyebrows. As someone said earlier in the thread, even the word "bushy" is somewhat subjective and could apply to a large group of people in any town.

MOO

 

[Lilly b]

PBBM

Hold on for me a second, please. Where is it stated that the interior of the 1122 House was dark during the murders? I certainly could have missed that fact so enlighten me, please.

If it is true that Xana received a DD delivery at 4am, maybe the kitchen light was turned on. The DD bag was left behind the kitchen sink even tho, at this point, we don't know who placed it there. Maybe the occupants always kept a kitchen light turned on at night. I just don't think we can assume the interior of the House was dark during the murders.

MOO

I don't think we know, I've previously asked, but what we do know is that it was dark outside at 4am,. Without knowing info about street lights

 

[TeaTime]

His car, his cell phone, his DNA. Speculate all you want, but Ms. Public Defender can't make these facts disappear and there is no telling how much more LE has on him that we know nothing about.

Yes, she will question DM, but only a fool would attack the survivor of a mass murderer. The jurors will hold her actions against her client. She is too smart for that. Don't anticipate it.

I predict a plea rather than a trial. It is the only way to save his miserable life.