ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[BeginnerSleuther]

MOO it’s very specific.

Thrre is a mystery person behind a curtain, describe that person, the task is to describe their:

Gender
Height
Body build
Notable facial feature if visible

MOO
She was right on each count.

I think we're misunderstanding each other. You're right, she described each of those things and in that regard, she was specific. However, the features described were not specific to BK. If half of anytown, USA can fit that description, then I don't think the features are all that specific.

What I would consider specific is a specific tattoo or an unusual height or an ethnicity that isn't common in that area. But her description could describe so many other people. Now, in combination with everything else, I agree that it points to BK, but I'm talking solely about the description. Imagine if there was no other evidence in this case, DM's description would not point to just BK. That's why I'm saying it wasn't really specific.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

PCA is just probable cause for arrest...also there is way more evidence in the PCA than just the eyebrows, and 3000 pages of discovery we have not seen yet.

I'm aware. To clarify, when I discuss specific aspects of the case, it doesn't mean I'm arguing against the entire case. I was responding specifically to the post about the brows.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The PCA was this "specific" in terms of DM's description of the person she saw.

As far as how "strong" her description was, it was strong enough for LE to follow up as described in the PCA below, IMO.

BBM from the PCA:

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

LE also interpreted BK's appearance as "fitting" DM's description of the person she saw, per the PCA:

"Officer Whitman also ran the car and it retumed to Kohberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed Kohberg's WA state driver license information and photograph. This license indicates that Kohberger is a white male with a height of 6' and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph of Kohberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Kohberger's physical description is consistent with the description of the male D.M. saw inside the King Road Residence on November 13th."

Read Bryan Kohberger affidavit: Details on police evidence in Idaho murders

IMO, that was based on everything, not just her description.

 

[wary]

right. It doesn't rule him out, but it's not specific enough to make him the only logical choice just based on physical description. IMO. now if he had a giant green face tattoo and is 7'6", then we're talking, but 5'10" or taller, meh, not so much imo.

It makes it substantially less likely that his DNA on the knife sheath got there by pure accident.

 

[Justice101]

IMO, there are already too many things lined up that a reasonable person would not convict.

BK's DNA on the knife sheath was a home run. Getting any VICTIM'S DNA from the Elantra or his apartment would be a grand slam...game over.

Others on here have said and I agree, that this so much more circumstantial evidence with the car, license plate absence, phone cell tower pings, social media messages (possibly), (possibly) searches on his phone or computer relating to any of the girls.. that this alone COULD have been but was not probably quite enough to ensure a conviction.

Bottom line is LE got their guy and with all the help from Idaho State Police and the FBI, they will have all their ducks in a row come trial time.

I am not sweating this...

 

[wary]

The mask may have covered his nose and forehead. As you said, they are his most noticeable features so he probably selected a mask with the most coverage.

What are the chances a man with a similar height and build drove BK's car to and from the crime scene leaving BK's DNA behind but none of his own?

Regarding why the nose may not have been his most noticeable feature: PCA page 5:

“a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose”

 

[kittythehare]

IMO, there are already too many things lined up that a reasonable person would not convict.

BK's DNA on the knife sheath was a home run. Getting any VICTIM'S DNA from the Elantra or his apartment would be a grand slam...game over.

Others on here have said and I agree, that this so much more circumstantial evidence with the car, license plate absence, phone cell tower pings, social media messages (possibly), (possibly) searches on his phone or computer relating to any of the girls.. that this alone COULD have been but was not probably quite enough to ensure a conviction.

Bottom line is LE got their guy and with all the help from Idaho State Police and the FBI, they will have all their ducks in a row come trial time.

I am not sweating this...

I think it will be okay too.
In about 3 years time though when it finally gets to court short of a miracle.. here's hoping.

 

[steeltowngirl]

How FBI "lost" Bryan Kohberger as he left Idaho for holidays

FBI agents who were surveilling Kohberger on a cross-county trip lost him for at least several hours, according to a new report.

www.newsweek.com

 

[ktm44]

Again, true, but I didn't say it ruled him out. I just said it wasn't specific.

I wonder if there is more to her statement than what we know at this time but at this point, the description was fairly generic and seeminly used as a starting point for a suspect. In my opinion, it likely responds more to the ongoing narrative that he had help.

When the balance of the witness statement is available it may have more details about BK's level of composure (rushing vs a more composed pace past the door) and if he was carrying the knife.

I'm quite certain she's been very extensively interviewed many times and my only concern would be how badly her trauma after discovering her roommates were dead affected her memory.

 

[kittythehare]

How FBI "lost" Bryan Kohberger as he left Idaho for holidays

FBI agents who were surveilling Kohberger on a cross-county trip lost him for at least several hours, according to a new report.

www.newsweek.com

"For several alarming hours—or more? the authorities are keeping the precise details of this screwup close to the vest—the chief suspect in a quadruple homicide that had shocked the nation had seemingly vanished," Blum wrote.
Blum isn't the most reliable for facts. I did read the first of the 2 part that was permitted here but he was a tad off on his facts.. small things but significant enough to ring bells..

I don't know what the truth is.

 

[maskedwoman]

She described the figure as 5’10” or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows,

Is it concerning that there's no mention of race, ethnicity, age etc.? Could be describing a 40 yo Hispanic male. idk moo

Not to me. I think they are holding so much back, we can't assume anything as being "known" or "unknown" at this time. I suspect we are going to find that some things we believed or reasoned to be true are not and vice versa.

 

[maskedwoman]

IMO closure for the family, knowing that only the killer would know where the knife is and it will likely not be found otherwise. If BK thinks there’s no chance of appeal (based on how the trial goes), he might be willing to give a little to get a lot….his life. But I do think the family’s feelings on this will be strongly considered before any deal would ever be proposed. IMO but interested to hear others thoughts on this.

Personally, I could see them taking DP off the table to find out where a victim's body is, but not a weapon. I just can't see that unless they have a very weak case. Not to say it's never been done but I don't recall ever seeing a plea deal where the DA gave up the DP for just a weapon. For location of a victim and/or a full confession, but not just a weapon.

 

[flowershop]

My opinion on how they would try to discredit DM: I don’t even think defense would have to focus on discrediting what DM saw. I can see a strategy where instead they try to discredit her character. Bringing up alcohol and/or drug use - just the insinuation could be damaging depending on the jury.

I’m not saying or insinuating DM did use alcohol or drugs but we do know from the body cam footage from previous visits to the house that at least alcohol had been in or around the house in the past. Defense could bring this up as a way to discredit DM.

Is this the aim of BK's request for the drug test results? To discredit DM?

Bryan Kohberger Files Request Seeking Results of All Drug Tests Conducted During Idaho Murder Investigation

Bryan Kohberger wants all drug tests as well as "types of testing performed in this case, testing procedures, reagents and/or solvents used in testing, comparative analyses performed, and number of experiments performed in each test."

www.insideedition.com

 

[Moriarty]

His car, his cell phone, his DNA. Speculate all you want, but Ms. Public Defender can't make these facts disappear and there is no telling how much more LE has on him that we know nothing about.

Yes, she will question DM, but only a fool would attack the survivor of a mass murderer. The jurors will hold her actions against her client. She is too smart for that. Don't anticipate it.

I predict a plea rather than a trial. It is the only way to save his miserable life.

All of this!

A trial by jury is as much about pathos as it is logos. IMO it would be a serious mistake to attack DM's character or even question her other than to point out that the description could apply to a broad selection of the population. I think the prosecutor would call DM simply to have a firsthand account for the jury about how horrible it all was. A young woman recounting a truly terrible event will have a huge emotional punch to it.

I also think though, that there won't be a trial.

 

[ktm44]

I don't know about "tearing her down", as the defense may decide that doesn't make BK look good to attack a survivor. But I would expect the defense to argue that the delay in calling 911 indicates the surviving roommate(s) weren't as alarmed as DM's eventual testimony makes her seem.

"So then you went back to bed for almost eight hours. You certainly didn't think four of your closest friends were laying dead in the house, did you?"

As always, IANAL and IMHO.

There is a lot we don't know and likely won't for a long time. There was mention in the PCA about phone records from the surviving roommates and I would be interested in text messages between roommates and if they shed greater light on how the household noises were interpreted and possible discussion about the intruder.

In my opinion, there is something that occurred in that moment that caused the roommate to freeze in fear that may come out with her testimony or text messages. Did she see the knife or did he speak to her or threaten her in some way she found terrifying?

 

[Zella]

Did she see the knife or did he speak to her or threaten her in some way she found terrifying?

Based on what's described in the PCA, I do not believe he saw her or registered her presence. I also don't think she saw the knife. That would have been very pertinent to the PCA if she'd seen an unknown person in the house with a weapon.

I think the fact that he didn't interact with her and that he wasn't obviously armed is probably part of why she didn't immediately call 911. I think what she saw was just ambiguous enough, especially for someone who just woke up in a house where random people weren't necessarily uncommon, to be weirded out but not immediately alarmed. Basically freaked out enough to lock the doors and maybe even text the other roommates but not frightened enough to immediately call the authorities. I wouldn't be surprised if she hadn't just about talked herself into thinking what she saw was a figment of a dream in the light of day, all the way until she left her room and realized multiple people in the house had been murdered.

MOO

 

[whowy]

Is this the aim of BK's request for the drug test results? To discredit DM?

Bryan Kohberger Files Request Seeking Results of All Drug Tests Conducted During Idaho Murder Investigation

Bryan Kohberger wants all drug tests as well as "types of testing performed in this case, testing procedures, reagents and/or solvents used in testing, comparative analyses performed, and number of experiments performed in each test."

www.insideedition.com

Doubtful. Can't think of any legitimate reason there would have been to test DM at the relevant time.

 

[jepop]

All of this!

A trial by jury is as much about pathos as it is logos. IMO it would be a serious mistake to attack DM's character or even question her other than to point out that the description could apply to a broad selection of the population. I think the prosecutor would call DM simply to have a firsthand account for the jury about how horrible it all was. A young woman recounting a truly terrible event will have a huge emotional punch to it.

I also think though, that there won't be a trial.

So you wouldn't anticipate the defense questioning her about her actions following her sighting of the stranger? I have been going over how it would benefit the defense to do that, and to what purpose. I understand that the defense might seek to discredit the basic descriptors in DMs statement, but to what purpose and how exactly could/would defense question her over the timing of the 911 call and her going to back to sleep after the killer left?

ETA: Asking from POV of defense, to me DM is a victim and her actions that night should not be under scrutiny at all, there was no way for her to know or expect what she was to confront the next morning. MOO

 

[ktm44]

Based on what's described in the PCA, I do not believe he saw her or registered her presence. I also don't think she saw the knife. That would have been very pertinent to the PCA if she'd seen an unknown person in the house with a weapon.

I think the fact that he didn't interact with her and that he wasn't obviously armed is probably part of why she didn't immediately call 911. I think what she saw was just ambiguous enough, especially for someone who just woke up in a house where random people weren't necessarily uncommon, to be weirded out but not immediately alarmed. Basically freaked out enough to lock the doors and maybe even text the other roommates but not frightened enough to immediately call the authorities. I wouldn't be surprised if she hadn't just about talked herself into thinking what she saw was a figment of a dream in the light of day, all the way until she left her room and realized multiple people in the house had been murdered.

MOO

I don't think he saw her either but I'm uncertain if that's because the PCA is a bit misleading or because I made assumptions that if he had seen her, there would be another victim. I do try to keep an open mind about these things.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Ok, thanks for that info. I guess the prosecution will decide and weigh up the factors as to calling her. I also understood from previous threads that the Defense may call her, even if the prosecution don't, for the purposoes of discrediting not only her statements but also her character as far as they are able to get away with it. So in that case, it's preferable for the prosecution to have her as a witness to counter that expectation. MOO

BBM

I remember such posts and they confused me. I thought trial practice rules dictate that you cannot impeach your own witness. If that’s true, then the defense cannot call her as a witness only to try and impeach or contradict everything she has already expressed to LE.

I am not a lawyer. Will the lawyers here weigh in on this?