ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[Zella]

I've been pretty much assuming they included enough conclusive information to make the Judge comfortable they have the right guy, but I wouldn't expect them to put their best stuff in it. It's a strategic release of information, right?

I would hesitate to say this was a strategic release of information. This was their most solid evidence at the time when they asked for the warrant for his arrest because they're trying to convince a judge. They're not going to leave out better evidence that would help convince him to give them what they're asking for. Indeed, as the PCA shows, they held back important details from the media prior to writing the PCA, so they had this surprise twist of there actually being a witness who saw the killer that night. I doubt they had more compelling information at the time they were concealing from a judge.

Yes, BK and his attorney were eventually going to read it, but that's not the primary audience. The primary audience is that judge who can sign off or not.

That being said, you are correct it is not an indication of everything they have. It's also not current. We have no idea what additional evidence has been uncovered in the past month since this warrant was issued once they were able to arrest BK, search his home and property, and delve more into his digital life.

TLDR: This was likely the best evidence they had at the time, but it is not all of the evidence they had and doesn't account for newer findings.

Ultimately, it's just a piece of the puzzle, but since little else official has been released, people don't really have a lot of talk about, so the PCA is going to be nitpicked to death, over and over again.

MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

Again, IANAL and all that follows is IMHO.

If DM has seen multiple photos of BK, that isn't necessarily a good thing for the Prosecution. The defense will argue that seeing photographs imprinted BK's image in DM's mind and have added to her memory of the intruder.

Such details as this might keep DM from being allowed to testify at all re what she saw. (And rightfully so, frankly. We can't get correct verdicts if witnesses are given unrelated visual cues to bolster their eyewitness accounts.)

I would be surprised if they didn't show her a picture line up before he was arrested to see if she could pick him out. They could even mask everyone using Photoshop, although I have no idea if that's appropriate or not. If she didn't pick him out, well, he was masked and it's too much to overcome for an ID. If she did, that's great and strengthens their case. And I keep thinking about the fact that the PCA said that she didn't say she recognized the person, which I took as them saying she didn't spontaneously say this person she saw was someone she recognized as a friend or acquaintance. And, even then, I thought it was a very weird way to put that. It does not say they showed her a picture line up and she couldn't identify him. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but that's where I am. MOOoooo

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Idaho murders - live: Bryan Kohberger’s eyebrows helped Moscow police link him to college killings​

Independent
RACHEL SHARP AND ANDREA BLANCO
February 1, 2023

"Bryan Kohberger’s distinct eyebrows may have first linked him to the Idaho murders.

According to Air Mail’s “The Eyes of a Killer: Part Two”, a lead investigator first had an inkling that Mr Kohberger would become a suspect in the crime after he ran the Washington State University PhD student’s licence plate and noticed his “bushy eyebrows”.

One of the surviving roommates at the 1122 King Road home had recounted how she unknowingly saw her friends’ killer leaving the scene before going back into her room in a state of shock. The woman said the killer was wearing a mask, but his “bushy eyebrows” stood out to her."

Idaho murders - live: Bryan Kohberger’s eyebrows helped Moscow police link him to college killings

 

[Sundog]

I would be surprised if they didn't show her a picture line up before he was arrested to see if she could pick him out. They could even mask everyone using Photoshop, although I have no idea if that's appropriate or not. If she didn't pick him out, well, he was masked and it's too much to overcome for an ID. If she did, that's great and strengthens their case. And I keep thinking about the fact that the PCA said that she didn't say she recognized the person, which I took as them saying she didn't spontaneously say this person she saw was someone she recognized as a friend or acquaintance. And, even then, I thought it was a very weird way to put that. It does not say they showed her a picture line up and she couldn't identify him. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but that's where I am. MOOoooo

All that information was requested by the defense attorney, whether or not there was a picture lineup or other identification process, so it will be in the discovery documents if some kind of identification process took place, whether picture lineup or other.

 

[gliving]

Idaho murders - live: Bryan Kohberger’s eyebrows helped Moscow police link him to college killings​

Independent
RACHEL SHARP AND ANDREA BLANCO
February 1, 2023

"Bryan Kohberger’s distinct eyebrows may have first linked him to the Idaho murders.

According to Air Mail’s “The Eyes of a Killer: Part Two”, a lead investigator first had an inkling that Mr Kohberger would become a suspect in the crime after he ran the Washington State University PhD student’s licence plate and noticed his “bushy eyebrows”.

One of the surviving roommates at the 1122 King Road home had recounted how she unknowingly saw her friends’ killer leaving the scene before going back into her room in a state of shock. The woman said the killer was wearing a mask, but his “bushy eyebrows” stood out to her."

Idaho murders - live: Bryan Kohberger’s eyebrows helped Moscow police link him to college killings

Good thing his nose was covered. It's definitely "distinct".

 

[Cool Cats]

Idaho murders: Ex-CIA agent says DNA sample puts Bryan Kohberger at crime scene but does not prove guilt

Authorities had earlier revealed that the DNA found on a knife sheath recovered from the crime scene linked Kohberger to the Idaho murders

meaww.com

Idaho murders: Ex-CIA agent says DNA sample puts Bryan Kohberger at crime scene but does not prove guilt

Walder continued by saying that individual pieces of evidence "don't exist in a vacuum," and the prosecuting team will "take all of it" when presenting their case. "It's the totality of the facts,” the former FBI special agent noted, referencing the DNA evidence, cell phone data.......

and description provided by a surviving housemate that was stated in the affidavit.

 

[jjleroche]

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

It is a miracle the killer didn't see the witness or saw her but decided to ignore her.

She was maligned for not calling 911 and that was a problem she was getting on SM. A stranger scared her in the middle of the night, she had no clue he was a killer leaving her house.

You don't call 911 because a man looked scary to you. He wasn't breaking in either, he was leaving, no crime to report.

If a stranger was in my house at 4:00am I'd call 911, but her situation is different. She was living in a "college house" rented out by several people with people in and out at all hours, including people ordering food at 4:00am.

Well said - I enjoy your posts - your commonsense and ability to cut through the to the essence of things.

 

[I'm Nobody]

I'm probably way off on this but here goes.

EVIDENCE.........Saturday this thread [pg 20], discussion re: discovery docs, the prosecutor " 'prays' for protection....[of one] who would not be testifying.

10: if there is a person with knowledge of the crime, they will not be called as a witness. this includes all information (recordings, writings, etc) that the person might have given or relayed to the prosecutor. this person's information is not, by law, have to be told / disclosed. the prosecution asks the court ("prays") to protect this person with knowledge and all their information. the prosecution is asking the judge to order protection.

@Sleuth2010 added, " think private investigator."

My thought was Katherine Ramsland. Maybe Ramsland was the one DA wanted to protect. She would have had writings/research papers by BK, knowledge and information she may have shared with the investigators which were related to his fantasies/murders but not her thoughts meaning no reason for her to testify. She just handed over the writings, recordings, etc. from BK.
That would also explain why she is "making no media statements at this time,"
Ramsland would make a great expert and character "surprise witness" for the prosecution but surprise witnesses are probably only in the movies.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

IMO his blue eyes are also a distinctive feature.

Two things.

The house was dark or mostly dark. His brows would have shadowed his eyes, making them seem darker. His pupils would be very dilated to take in extra light, making them seem darker.

Secondly, I'm going to mention Bundy, a killer with very vivid, cornflower blue eyes. Survivors, and other people who knew him socially or as family who had seen him in a temper, said that when enraged, his eyes seemed to turn almost black, probably also because of dilation of the pupil. People who interviewed Bundy in prison said they'd seen it themselves when he was recounting a kill. (I don't recall a precise written source for this, but I remember it being in The Ted Bundy Tapes on Netflix, so I expect it's in The Only Living Witness by Aynesworth and Michaud given the depth of their contribution to the series and their extensive interviews with Bundy before his execution.)


Both the dim light and the heightened situation would, in all likelihood, have made the eyes of the person who passed D's doorway look black, whatever their actual colour.

Very much MOO

 

[Helechawagirl]

My prior basic and military service conditioning IMO BK has similar mindset to the quasi military groups he participated in, wanted to participate in, the interest in police work, physical conditioning kickboxing, boxing, people reporting his prior behavior and attitude desire to fight IMO. So it was likely violent, combative IMO, with Ethan and Xana 2nd floor near and in bedroom.
Missing time on his route/return to Pullman likely stashing knife, clothes for later pick up.
IMO it was about him and killing people more than anything else guys and girls in that house.
I don’t think he saw or heard Xana.MOO

Did you mean Dylan?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I'm probably way off on this but here goes.

EVIDENCE.........Saturday this thread [pg 20], discussion re: discovery docs, the prosecutor " 'prays' for protection....[of one] who would not be testifying.


@Sleuth2010 added, " think private investigator."

My thought was Katherine Ramsland. Maybe Ramsland was the one DA wanted to protect. She would have had writings/research papers by BK, knowledge and information she may have shared with the investigators which were related to his fantasies/murders but not her thoughts meaning no reason for her to testify. She just handed over the writings, recordings, etc. from BK.
That would also explain why she is "making no media statements at this time,"
Ramsland would make a great expert and character "surprise witness" for the prosecution but surprise witnesses are probably only in the movies.

MOO

Thanks, I'm Nobody! This makes a lot of sense to me. Probably lotsa paperwork regarding BK's education that LE would be looking at. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm probably way off on this but here goes.

EVIDENCE.........Saturday this thread [pg 20], discussion re: discovery docs, the prosecutor " 'prays' for protection....[of one] who would not be testifying.


@Sleuth2010 added, " think private investigator."

My thought was Katherine Ramsland. Maybe Ramsland was the one DA wanted to protect. She would have had writings/research papers by BK, knowledge and information she may have shared with the investigators which were related to his fantasies/murders but not her thoughts meaning no reason for her to testify. She just handed over the writings, recordings, etc. from BK.
That would also explain why she is "making no media statements at this time,"
Ramsland would make a great expert and character "surprise witness" for the prosecution but surprise witnesses are probably only in the movies.

MOO

Your Quote:

"but surprise witnesses are probably only in the movies."

There was a huge surprise witness last November in the 2 month Ohio trial of George Wagner.

Right at the last minute at the end of the trial without warning the defense sprung a surprise witness to the stand. None other than George himself!

Usually I see murder defendants not taking the stand but George surprised everyone. He was up on 22 felony charges, 8 were aggravated murder charges with death penalty specifications. Now we are waiting for his dad Billy Wagner's trial this year.

 

[Mominmi]

At the university, Kohberger was reportedly taught by Ramsland, a forensic psychologist who has spent decades studying serial killers.

She has not made any public comments since Kohberger's arrest. "I'm making no media statements at this time," she told Newsweek on Monday.

Ramsland, Ph.D., is a professor and assistant provost at DeSales University. She came to the university "specifically to teach forensic psychology, focusing on her field of expertise—extreme offenders," according to her biography on the university's website.
....
Ramsland holds a master's degree in forensic psychology from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, a master's in clinical psychology from Duquesne University, a master's in criminal justice from DeSales University, and a Ph.D. in philosophy from Rutgers University, according to her biography on the Psychology Today website.

She writes the "Shadow Boxing" blog for the website, which is described as one that "probe the mind's dark secrets."

I must check out her blog....

I couldn’t resist and scanned the article titles on her blog, Shadow Boxing. Lots of interesting stuff that I’ll go back to read, I think. One title caught my attention, How can we identify the wanna be serial killer? and even with just a quick scan there is stuff in there that seems like it might apply to Brian. I certainly think LE will have attempted to interview Dr. R and gotten any work of BK’s that’s still available. Also made me think that it’s hopeful that there is going to be evidence of his plans or thoughts about the murders somewhere too (like on his computer or in a journal, etc).

 

[Sundog]

I'm probably way off on this but here goes.

EVIDENCE.........Saturday this thread [pg 20], discussion re: discovery docs, the prosecutor " 'prays' for protection....[of one] who would not be testifying.


@Sleuth2010 added, " think private investigator."

My thought was Katherine Ramsland. Maybe Ramsland was the one DA wanted to protect. She would have had writings/research papers by BK, knowledge and information she may have shared with the investigators which were related to his fantasies/murders but not her thoughts meaning no reason for her to testify. She just handed over the writings, recordings, etc. from BK.
That would also explain why she is "making no media statements at this time,"
Ramsland would make a great expert and character "surprise witness" for the prosecution but surprise witnesses are probably only in the movies.

MOO

I think that LE would need a search warrant to get any writings by BK from DeSales University. Faculty and students have great latitude to explore their ideas in their courses, and sometimes the assignments given to them would lead to writings that would be uncomfortable and out there. Who knows what assignments Ramsland gave her students and what kinds of responses she allowed or encouraged. I also doubt that she would have in her possession any of BK's writings, as they are usually returned to the student. Unless they were digital writings, which may be still on the university's server.

In any event, I doubt that Ramsland needs protection, and I don't think she can be a "surprise witness" as I assume the prosecution has to give a list of their witnesses to the defense as part of the discovery process.

But it is an interesting idea!

ETA I also assume that LE would need to specify in a warrant exactly what they are looking for and expect to find, otherwise to just ask a judge for a warrant of all BK's writings would be casting too broad a net.

 

[Boxer]

I think the defense will be interested in how DM arrived at her descriptions. Were they spontaneous? Or were there leading questions asked by LE who interviewed her, thus helping her to determine the categories, for example with regard to body build. Did they show her any pictures or give her any information to help her with her descriptions? In Attorney Taylor's Discovery Request to the prosecution she requested disclosure of the identification process of any defendant that was being considered in the case.

Attorney Taylor's Discovery Request, January 10, 2023

13. Identification. Disclosure of whether a defendant, or any other person, was identified by lineup, show up, photo spread or similar identification proceeding relating to the offense charged, and production of any pictures utilized or resulting therefrom and the names, addresses and telephone numbers of all identifying witnesses.

https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/011023%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

BBM

MOO Leading questions? They did not have a suspect so they had no information to lead with.
On any car a god police department have no use of “leading” their witnesses it only creates error and legal problems.

 

[Sundog]

MOO Leading questions? They did not have a suspect so they had no information to lead with.
On any car a god police department have no use of “leading” their witnesses it only creates error and legal problems.

It is was me, and LE asked me about someone's build, I wouldn't know where to start. If they said "muscular or athletic," that, to me, would be a leading question. "Anything on his face stand out?" Oh yeah, "bushy eyebrows."

Some examples, just speculating, but I assume this would be in the records of LE's interview with DM that will be shared with the defense in discovery.

Edited to extend final thought/sentence.

 

[Sundog]

I couldn’t resist and scanned the article titles on her blog, Shadow Boxing. Lots of interesting stuff that I’ll go back to read, I think. One title caught my attention, How can we identify the wanna be serial killer? and even with just a quick scan there is stuff in there that seems like it might apply to Brian. I certainly think LE will have attempted to interview Dr. R and gotten any work of BK’s that’s still available. Also made me think that it’s hopeful that there is going to be evidence of his plans or thoughts about the murders somewhere too (like on his computer or in a journal, etc).

FERPA law protects the privacy and confidentiality of a student's work, so LE would need a search warrant to try to get this information from DeSales University. HIs professors would know that they can't release any of this material, and the university's General Counsel's office would work as the go-between between a faculty member and a warrant to ensure that FERPA and other laws and policies are applied.

 

[Boxer]

It is was me, and LE asked me about someone's build, I wouldn't know where to start. If they said "muscular or athletic," that, to me, would be a leading question. "Anything on his face stand out?" Oh yeah, "bushy eyebrows."

Some examples, just speculating, but I assume this would be in the records of LE's interview with DM that will be shared with the defense in discovery.

Edited to extend final thought/sentence.

MOO they detectives would ask refining questions.


taller or shorter
thinner or bulky
Athletic / not athletic
Muscular or regular build
Etc

 

[Sundog]

MOO they detectives would ask refining questions.


taller or shorter
thinner or bulky
Athletic / not athletic
Muscular or regular build
Etc

I think that's the kind of thing that the defense will be looking for in the Discovery Documents.

 

[Boxer]

I think that's the kind of thing that the defense will be looking for in the Discovery Documents.

Sure, but in the case of DMs testimony, police had no suspect to be “led” to describing, even if they were inclined and grossly negligent enough to put their case in jeopardy.

MOO plain and simple it’s what she remembers seeing and her description of who she saw.