ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[agilbe]

Interesting comment on one of Dr. Snyder's 2022 fall classes on ratemyprofessors.com:

BBM:

posted 1/13 (so, possibly fradulent, but not sure what the motive would be, esp since they were many commenting on his class, not just the TA) : CRIMJ320 "This was an okay course. Prof Snyder was very unstructured and he just spoke about whatever in tangents (bc he doesn't follow his own syllabus). Nice guy. TAs matter the most as they grade your papers. AVOID bryan (very harsh grader

I thought I remember seeing somewhere BK eased up after 11/13.
Bryan Kohberger ‘seemed preoccupied’ after Idaho murders: former student
Bryan Kohberger's student claims he became lax while grading papers, grew facial hair after Idaho murders

 

[10ofRods]

And his attorney is not under oath, and can’t testify for him, (though they often try.)

So theoretically, he would have to take the stand to testify that he was parked there to jog. Then he’d have to explain to the prosecution why that place, a ten minute drive from where he lived and went to college, was the perfect place to go jogging at 4:00 am.
se
MOO

And how his DNA got on a knife sheath and why he drove in a roundabout way back to Pullman then back to 1122 King Road on Sunday morning.

The list is rather large of things he'd have to explain. And even if he tries another excuse for the sheath ("I went jogging but my knife was stolen a month before") the jury is gonna roll its collective eyes.

"I went jogging for 19 minutes."

He'll be asked where he bought that knife, and that will help the prosecution. That will probably lead them (as they can then do discovery and get receipts from that place) to more things he purchased (gloves, etc). If he admits he had a Ka-Bar knife while he's on the stand, his goose cooked no matter what strange tale he tells.

Nope, he needs to remain silent until his preliminary and of course, with **no evidence** (yikes!) it's going to be the prosecution's win - it will go to trial as by then, prosecution will be read to present so much more.

 

[CGray123]

Okay - WOW. This should be the Post of the Day (others, if you have posted same link - thank you!)

This speaks volumes. And it also means the flow of discovery is entirely one way. Wow. I can't even imagine how this is going to play out in June.

Either the defense has evidence or it doesn't. It saying it doesn't. None. Zero. Zilch. I wonder what he's planning to gather. Idaho doesn't accept a mental health plea so that evidence would be irrelevant. What a peculiar situation.

Anyone know of another case that went down this path?

It's not that the PD investigation hasn't produced any evidence of any kind: unlike the prosecution, the defense is obliged to disclose only evidence they intend to produce at trial.

In my experience, which is both direct (as a party and as a witness) and indirect (as the child of litigators immersed in their legal/political community, who loved to hear their stories and debates at the dinner table) it is not uncommon for the defense to rely on an argument that the prosecution's evidence is insufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is often the only defense available, even to an innocent defendant.

To me, this disclosure says two important things: (1) at present, there are no alibi witnesses, and (2) at present, there are no experts they are willing to call as witnesses. They may have engaged experts, but if so they have not concluded their investigation and analysis and reduced it to a discoverable report. Or, their conclusions don't help the defense.

The defense still has time to produce evidence in response to the discovery requirement, to disclose the reports of experts, and to give notice of an alibi. But if they do, the question becomes, what did they know and when did they know it.

 

[CGray123]

Has anyone heard about an effort to remove AT as BK's lead counsel? If not, can we infer that the COI issue does not concern the parties (i.e. the state and the defendant) or the affected families enough to raise it?

 

[justtrish]

Legendary FBI profiler John Douglas had a great line in his book “Mindhunter,” (great Netflix series), in which he said “a serial killer plans to get away with it, a mass murderer doesn’t, and a spree killer hasn’t thought that far ahead.” I think this guy profiles as a serial killer, even though four at once is insane. He didn’t want to be caught.

I have thought about him being a serial killer. I know we don't know of any other crimes associated with him, but I do think he would have killed again. His motivation and his intention is likely going to be more of a serial killer. I think if he would have gotten away with this, he would have done it again. I think them announcing they were looking for his car likely spooked him.

What is interesting is that survey he did. It might have been an assignment, but I think he was using it, using the data, he was studying things. It sure feels like he was trying to commit a perfect crime. I bet he would have continued to try to perfect that if he wasn't caught.

 

[Sundog]

Bryan Kohberger was FIRED from his teaching job days before arrest

Bryan Kohberger, 28, was let go from his teaching assistant job due to 'behavioral problems' and for having a 'sexist attitude toward women.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ktm44]

Has anyone heard about an effort to remove AT as BK's lead counsel? If not, can we infer that the COI issue does not concern the parties (i.e. the state and the defendant) or the affected families enough to raise it?

I think the media periodically flings some mud to see what sticks. That seemed to churn up a couple days of social media outrage followed by no further noise so I'm guessing nothing came of it.

 

[CGray123]

And how his DNA got on a knife sheath and why he drove in a roundabout way back to Pullman then back to 1122 King Road on Sunday morning.

The list is rather large of things he'd have to explain. And even if he tries another excuse for the sheath ("I went jogging but my knife was stolen a month before") the jury is gonna roll its collective eyes.

"I went jogging for 19 minutes."

He'll be asked where he bought that knife, and that will help the prosecution. That will probably lead them (as they can then do discovery and get receipts from that place) to more things he purchased (gloves, etc). If he admits he had a Ka-Bar knife while he's on the stand, his goose cooked no matter what strange tale he tells.

Nope, he needs to remain silent until his preliminary and of course, with **no evidence** (yikes!) it's going to be the prosecution's win - it will go to trial as by then, prosecution will be read to present so much more.

BK will likely use the preliminary hearing as a means to lock in the prosecution's witnesses to specific answers they want. In fact, they will probably subpoena key prosecution experts and try to undermine their opinions. If these witnesses alter their testimony at trial, the prelim transcript will be used to impeach them via inconsistent statements.

The defense may also subpoena the surviving roommates for the same reason. In addition, they will want to assess their vulnerability to cross examination - especially if they declined to talk to defense investigators.

IIRC, the defense asked the court to schedule several days for the preliminary hearing. Normally these are perfunctory affairs, in which the lead investigator testifies, summarizing the evidence that shows probable cause. This would not normally take more than a couple of days. I infer that the defense has a tactical agenda it hopes to advance in the hearing. MOO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It's not that the PD investigation hasn't produced any evidence of any kind: unlike the prosecution, the defense is obliged to disclose only evidence they intend to produce at trial.

In my experience, which is both direct (as a party and as a witness) and indirect (as the child of litigators immersed in their legal/political community, who loved to hear their stories and debates at the dinner table) it is not uncommon for the defense to rely on an argument that the prosecution's evidence is insufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is often the only defense available, even to an innocent defendant.

To me, this disclosure says two important things: (1) at present, there are no alibi witnesses, and (2) at present, there are no experts they are willing to call as witnesses. They may have engaged experts, but if so they have not concluded their investigation and analysis and reduced it to a discoverable report. Or, their conclusions don't help the defense.

The defense still has time to produce evidence in response to the discovery requirement, to disclose the reports of experts, and to give notice of an alibi. But if they do, the question becomes, what did they know and when did they know it.

Good points. I think the wording BK's defense team gave as to why they were not submitting any evidence "... at this time, which will be submitted at the time of trial", is maybe a bit confusing to the layperson, or me anyway.

It seems to either suggest, IMO, they have nothing that they are planning to present as evidence at trial as of now, but they are reserving the right to submit evidence later (before trial), and that's groovy like an old time movie to kick the can down the road, but, IMO, is telling that there's nothing up front that the defense has to offer as evidence to counter the charges. JMO

BBM

"Bryan Kohberger told prosecutors that he has yet to gather evidence that he plans to use at trial, in a court filing this week.

One week after prosecutors responded to the defense's request for discovery by handing over 995 pages of documents and close to 2,000 photos as part of the discovery process, Kohberger and his lawyer responded to the prosecution's request in a filing obtained by Inside Edition Digital.

"There are no books, papers, documents, photographs, or copies, or portions thereof in the possession of the Defendant at this time, which will be submitted at the time of trial," said the response filed on Monday.

"There are no results or reports of physical or mental examinations or scientific tests which are in the possession of the Defendant at this time, which will be submitted at the time of trial.""

Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger Tells Prosecutors He Has No Evidence to Present at Trial

 

[MyBelle]

Hmm...
Does it mean that DP is just an idle threat?

Im curious as I don't live in the US and in my country we don't have such penalty.

But I think he is terrified of it and might decide to plead guilty (if guilty, of course).

I guess he never in his
wildest dreams thought he would be caught.

It seems to me he is (allegedly) living in his own twisted world.

JMO

I doubt he is offered a plea deal. I think there is plenty of evidence to convict him.

 

[General wooster]

The DNA does.

yes. The inescapable reality of the DNA is the big card here. Coupled with piles of circumstantial, yet compelling evidence. The defense has a hard row to hoe. Referencing the Helle Crafts murder where there was no body nor weapon discovered, the prosecution successfully demonstrated that her husband was guilty in the eyes of the jury. This was 1986.

 

[Dotta]

I doubt he is offered a plea deal. I think there is plenty of evidence to convict him.

I thought trials are expensive and plea deals with no future appeals against verdicts are more common.

Especially, when DP (if decided) is usually decades away to perform - if ever.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Could this simply mean that the defense will focus solely on dismantling the State's case, showing why the evidence the State has is circumstantial and could point in numerous directions? Does the defense need to offer any new evidence if they are only going to attack the State's evidence?

I don't actually know and would love to hear from any criminal law experts or attorneys on here...

The burden of proof rests with the prosecution, not the defense. The prosecution has forensic evidence of his shoe print near the doorway of the roommate who saw his masked face and bushy eyebrows. The knife sheath with his fingerprint on it. That will be pretty compelling to a jury. imo.

 

[MyBelle]

I thought trials are expensive and plea deals with no appeals against verdicts are more common.

Especially, when DP (if decided) is usually decades away to perform.

JMO

I think the prosecution will defer to the wishes of the victims' families.

 

[10ofRods]

I do not agree we have an unreliable narrator. We simply don't know if the student in the class who has reported details of the in-class event the professor set up with BK is reliable. He is presenting an individual viewpoint but that doesn't mean what is being said isn't objectively accurate. It doesn't mean it is accurate either. Another post points out the student said "he was like, have at him" when describing what the professor said to the class and so that meant the student wasn't quoting the professor. I'm not sure that conclusion is warranted. People who use that utterly irritating phrase "He was like..." can mean just about anything by that phrase from here comes a quote to a description that completely misreads the person's actions/speech.

If we had the professor's account IMO we also couldn't know whether that was an accurate account--- not much doubt the professor might have reasons of self-interest to slant his description of the purpose of the event in a certain way! While I have decades of experience as a professor myself I'm not as convinced as you are this assistant professor had all the right reasons for the in-class confrontation and took the right approach in introducing it. I'd need to know more about him/her. Simply being a professor isn't enough to get an automatic pass from me.

Very little of what we know now or think we know has been verified. Lots of stuff may have reliability issues. I'm not sure why the viewpoint of this student would be any more suspect than the viewpoints of others we've heard about in the case who say they interacted with BK or observed him in some way. You may be completely correct in your take but we don't have evidence of that at this point.

JMO

That's exactly what I was saying. The only link shared here about this incident uses words of a student who is remembering after the fact. I think we're agreeing?

I think we agree that a student's memory of such an event would not normally include the exact words of the professor.

The professor has made his name known, which is something. But of course, his account would be unreliable as well (although if he had some kind of regular script or procedure - or had done something like this before, it would be interesting to know). I know I would not grant an interview.

All we know is that there was an event in the classroom which was interpreted by some as a kind of conflict. The reason I consider the student's viewpoint *more* questionable is that, out of 150, only one has spoken. And that person spoke after the arrest. And I already know (IME) that students do not generally remember exact wording some months after an event.

I wish they did.

 

[MyBelle]

I have thought about him being a serial killer. I know we don't know of any other crimes associated with him, but I do think he would have killed again. His motivation and his intention is likely going to be more of a serial killer. I think if he would have gotten away with this, he would have done it again. I think them announcing they were looking for his car likely spooked him.

What is interesting is that survey he did. It might have been an assignment, but I think he was using it, using the data, he was studying things. It sure feels like he was trying to commit a perfect crime. I bet he would have continued to try to perfect that if he wasn't caught.

I think investigators are looking at other unsolved murders to see if there is a link to BK.

 

[Dotta]

I think investigators are looking at other unsolved murders to see if there is a link to BK.

"Officials in Pennsylvania have investigated a possible link between cold cases in the state and Bryan Kohberger, the suspect arrested in the University of Idaho student killings in Moscow, Idaho."

Bryan Kohberger investigated for possible connection to cold cases

Kohberger, 28, was arrested on December 30 in Pennsylvania and charged with four counts of first-degree murder in Idaho.

www.newsweek.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Legendary FBI profiler John Douglas had a great line in his book “Mindhunter,” (great Netflix series), in which he said “a serial killer plans to get away with it, a mass murderer doesn’t, and a spree killer hasn’t thought that far ahead.” I think this guy profiles as a serial killer, even though four at once is insane. He didn’t want to be caught.

Douglas is very quotable, but he loves a generalisation.

Take Kemper, a serial killer who he interviewed at length, who when he was 'done' went on the run, expecting an enormous manhunt to be chasing him. They weren't. He phoned police and confessed, to get it over with. They thought he was making it up, and told him to call back later. He called AGAIN and asked to speak directly to a cop he knew, and finally got traction. He confessed not only to the murder of his mother, but to multiple other killings, without being pressured.

Take List, a mass murderer who planned everything down to the minute, even stopping the newspaper delivery, and as a result, wasn't caught for almost two decades, and probably would never have been if it wasn't for a reconstruction by Bender and a massive media push on America's Most Wanted.

I could go on.

That said, I agree with you and think BK, if the perpetrator of this crime, didn't want or expect to get caught. I think he thought he was too smart.

MOO

 

[General wooster]

I certainly agree with that Boxer...however, I would argue that since it was on an object there is no proof that the object was brought into the house by BCK. IMO

In murder cases where there is no eyewitness to the crime, the prosecution develops guilt by way of evidence that proves to jurors the presence, motivation, opportunity, and proximity of the accused. IMO the prosecution seems well on the way.

 

[cottonweaver]

Bryan Kohberger was FIRED from his teaching job days before arrest

Bryan Kohberger, 28, was let go from his teaching assistant job due to 'behavioral problems' and for having a 'sexist attitude toward women.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

pity no cold case connections found in either county, to date


'Northampton used Kohberger's height, weight, and method of operations to search its database for any similar cases.

As for Lehigh County, there was 'no unsolved homicides that in any way meet the modus operandi of this event out in Idaho,' Martin said. '