4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[BeginnerSleuther]

Intimidating female students (following one to the car park),

I thought that was a colleague, not a student. Do you remember what the source was for that?

intimidating students by not respecting their work by unfair grading -
and all these taking advantage of being a figure of authority to them.

First, we don't know that it was "unfair" grading. There's a difference in harsh grading and unfair grading. IMO, it's wrong to say that a harsh grader is bullying. That's just an inaccurate use of the term bullying (and IMO, it's been watered down too much already).

If it is not a form of bullying, then what it is?

And all these happened at University - a place where young people were supposed to be taught by academics who are their MENTORS.

I'm not convinced these things happened. First of all, I thought it was a colleague who claimed he harassed her (or followed her, can't remember now), not a student. Second, just because students feel he graded "unfairly" doesn't mean he actually did. He was a harsh grader by all accounts, but I'm not going to call every harsh grader a bully.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm not sure how you pulled that out of my post. I just said we don't know. His family has said nothing. I have zero thoughts about whether or not he killed puppies nor have I ever mentioned conduct disorder. Personally, nothing I know about him fits in that category. Why are we discussing it? I'm confused.

Because you replied to my post discussing it. I said that if he was killing animals (i.e. conduct disorder), we'd know and you said:

"Only his parents and possibly siblings would know about childhood symptoms. And his parents aren't the ones talking about the bullying OR his childhood. I can't find a single statement from the parents about BK's condition (past or present)."

And I'm saying that isn't how conduct disorder (i.e. killing animals, setting fires) works. It isn't contained to just family.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Agree "bullying" in the sense taking their lunch money is maybe not quite right, what would you call it?
Altercationa are aggression, an attempt to dominate.

If a resident had a verbal altercation with an attending, I'd call the resident unprofessional. I'm not sure why we're looking for deeper meaning here. An altercation is an altercation. I wouldn't consider it an attempt to dominate or anything of the sort without more details. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

If a resident had a verbal altercation with an attending, I'd call the resident unprofessional. I'm not sure why we're looking for deeper meaning here. An altercation is an altercation. I wouldn't consider it an attempt to dominate or anything of the sort without more details. JMO.

All behaviors have a goal.
Is his goal in having an altercation with his supervisor to be fired?
To be right, to be feared, be admired, possibly to make people avoid him?
Maybe he was hoping to be seen as smarter than the professor?

There is a lot of aggressiveness to ruin a TAship by November.

 

[Dotta]

I thought that was a colleague, not a student. Do you remember what the source was for that?



First, we don't know that it was "unfair" grading. There's a difference in harsh grading and unfair grading. IMO, it's wrong to say that a harsh grader is bullying. That's just an inaccurate use of the term bullying (and IMO, it's been watered down too much already).



I'm not convinced these things happened. First of all, I thought it was a colleague who claimed he harassed her (or followed her, can't remember now), not a student. Second, just because students feel he graded "unfairly" doesn't mean he actually did. He was a harsh grader by all accounts, but I'm not going to call every harsh grader a bully.

MOO.

In fact, in my country it is called MOBBING.

Every place of work has strict "anti mobbing policy".

Some cases end with lawsuits in Labour Courts.

Mobbing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

All behaviors have a goal.
Is his goal in having an altercation with his supervisor to be fired?
To be right, to be feared, be admired, possibly to make people avoid him?
Maybe he was hoping to be seen as smarter than the professor?

There is a lot of aggressiveness to ruin a TAship by November.

We have no idea what his "goal" was nor does all behavior have an objective goal. Sometimes, behavior is the result of other disorders. Sometimes, people don't read social cues well and have interpersonal conflict that arises from that.

IMO, we have no information to make any kind of meaningful determination of any goal he may have had nor do we have any evidence of bullying of his students.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

In fact, in my country it is called MOBBING.

Every place of work has strict "anti mobbing policy".

Some cases end with lawsuits in Labour Courts.

Mobbing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I'm confused. Which of BK's behavior fits the definition of mobbing?

The article you linked stated: "Mobbing, as a sociological term, means bullying of an individual by a group"

How is BK guilty of this?

 

[Dotta]

I'm confused. Which of BK's behavior fits the definition of mobbing?

The article you linked stated: "Mobbing, as a sociological term, means bullying of an individual by a group"

How is BK guilty of this?

Good night

It is nearly midnight here haha

PS
Read carefully the whole text

 

[gliving]

FWIW Dec 29 search warrant for BK's WSU office. The warrant states BK is currently assigned an office and his name is on the door.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Based off the above information,I am also seeking a search warrant for Kohberger's office on the Washington State University Campus.I have probable cause to believe evidence of the crimes committed at the King Road Residence will be found in Kohberger's office located on the WSU campus at Wilson-Short Hall, #12, Pullman,WA. It is common for individuals to keep documents,records,and information of the type described above in their office and Kohberger's office is the other location identified where this evidence could be found.Based off of the WSU website Kohbergr's office is inside Wilson-Short Hall.The address of Wilson-Short Hallis 1475 Glenn Terrell Mall,Pullman,WA 99163. Wilson-Short Hall is a four-story brick building housing multiple offices. Kohberger's office is #12. #12 is a student office shared by Kohberger and two fellow WSU students, XXXX and XXXX. Kohberger has been confirmed to be one of the students who utilizes this office. On December 29,2022 Investigators visited the office and Kohberger's name is on the outside. Based off the above information,I am also seeking a search warrant for Kohberger's office on the Washington State University Campus.It is common for individuals to keep documents, records, and information of the type described above in their office and Kohberger's office is the other location identified where this evidence could be found.

 

[Cool Cats]

I did a duck duck go search using "bryan kohberger termination letter" - I'd think google would pull up the same results. Note the common source named is Banfield and / or NewsNation - even in the Inside Edition story. Perhaps the exclusive termination letter is legit; perhaps someone did violate WCU's "privacy laws that prohibit them from speaking publicly about students and alumni." At some point I guess we'll find out. I'm willing to believe it might be true, but I wouldn't put money down on it. I also agree that every media outlet isn't Fox News, but some "media sources" still have the story that Kohberger exposed himself and taunted a female prisoner in PA (which was debunked). With this case, media and about everyone else, is throwing out bits of information without confirming sources or debunking things that aren't true. All IMHO.

(found doing a search)

Updated: Feb 11, 2023 / 07:49 AM CST
"NewsNation’s “Banfield” exclusively obtained the WSU termination letter sent to Kohberger"

Bryan Kohberger’s termination letter from WSU

NewsNation’s “Banfield” exclusively obtained the WSU termination letter sent to Kohberger.

www.newsnationnow.com

First Published: 10:29 AM PST, February 14, 2023
"allegedly got into a verbal altercation with a professor he worked for in the school’s criminology program, NewsNation and The New York Times reported."
"But following that counseling, Kohberger allegedly had a second incident with the same professor in early December and he lost his job as a teaching assistant."

WSU Investigated Bryan Kohberger's Behavior While He Was a TA: Report

Faculty members were counseling Bryan Kohberger after a verbal altercation between the teacher’s assistant and the professor he worked for in the school’s criminology program while also probing his conduct with female students.

www.insideedition.com

Story by Liz Jassin • Feb 11
"The termination letter, obtained exclusively by NewsNation’s “Banfield,” was dated Dec. 19"

MSN

The New York Times obtained Bryan Kohberger's termination letter and did an extensive article about it, quoting from the letter. This matches the NewsNation termination letter and matches what several other MSM articles have said about this letter.

"....according to the termination letter, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times."

"Phil Weiler, a vice president and spokesman for W.S.U., said a federal student privacy law prohibited him from commenting in detail on Mr. Kohberger’s history with the university. He said only that Mr. Kohberger was no longer enrolled at the university."

University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and was investigated over his behavior around female students before he was charged in four murders.

www.nytimes.com

The New York Times is one of the largest newspapers in the U.S. and they are considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well-respected journalists/editors.

Recognized by many for its factual reporting, articles tend to follow strong standards for sourcing of information, meaning they link to numerous, high-scoring external sources and tend to include relevant direct quotations.

• New York Times
• Is the New York Times Reliable? - The Factual | Blog

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Good night

It is nearly midnight here haha

PS
Read carefully the whole text

I read it. Still don't understand the comparison to BK's alleged grading habits and sexism.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Calmer feelings prevailed thankfully. NM

 

[maconrich]

The New York Times obtained Bryan Kohberger's termination letter and did an extensive article about it, quoting from the letter. This matches the NewsNation termination letter and matches what several other MSM articles have said about this letter.

"....according to the termination letter, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times."

"Phil Weiler, a vice president and spokesman for W.S.U., said a federal student privacy law prohibited him from commenting in detail on Mr. Kohberger’s history with the university. He said only that Mr. Kohberger was no longer enrolled at the university."

University Investigated Idaho Murder Suspect’s Behavior Around Time of Killings (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger had a verbal altercation with a professor and was investigated over his behavior around female students before he was charged in four murders.

www.nytimes.com

The New York Times is one of the largest newspapers in the U.S. and they are considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well-respected journalists/editors.

Recognized by many for its factual reporting, articles tend to follow strong standards for sourcing of information, meaning they link to numerous, high-scoring external sources and tend to include relevant direct quotations.

• New York Times
• Is the New York Times Reliable? - The Factual | Blog

So, are we to believe the NYT or WSU (Phil Weiler)? What does WSU have to gain by breaking federal student privacy laws? Wouldn't they be smarter to do whatever they can to make WSU look good (such as following federal laws) especially given the fact a potential murderer was one of their grad students?
Edited to correct WSU.

 

[10ofRods]

We can't know that "it came to this". We weren't there.

Yes, students have every right to know why they were graded as they were. But no employee of any establishment deserves to be embarrassed in front of 150 "customers" during the employee's first weeks on the job.

The proper response would have been for the prof to take 10 essays graded by BK and then read them and show the assistant how they should have been marked.

I would say the same were the "employee" a rocket scientist or a janitor.
Public humiliation is not the way to "teach" anybody, not even a graduate student. It's actually an elaborate form of bullying. As I have said before, I have been both a TA and a supervisor of TAs for many years.

And I do think it's changing - somewhat. My ex-husband's years of internship and residency had elements of public humiliation (and my work with a heart transplant team in the early days of transplants shocked me - the way the medical students and interns were regularly cowed and bullied were so severe and surprising; I could not even write down or explain some of them on this forum).

I think it's interesting that we see these behaviors more in law school, med school (apparently in the past?) and criminology than, say, in anthropology. It's one reason I hung out in the department and became one. It wasn't that everyone was nice, it was more like each professor went there own way. One was mean. Many were courteous and kind. All of them were prone to wandering away in the middle of a conversation or ending an office conversation by simply beginning to do something else, with no conclusion (sometimes mid-sentence). They argued a lot with each other (there was sometimes shouting at dept meetings) but aside from the mean prof locking people out of the seminar room at exactly the starting hour, it was chill. Everything we did wrong was painfully explained to us in excruciating detail and usually in writing as well.

Still, people did get ejected from the program (once someone did something both unethical and possibly illegal - ejected from the whole university and it was very public). He had fulfilled his units for the master's and still uses that degree today for his work at a think tank. Perhaps not oddly he's pretty much a conspiracy theorist today. He definitely had antisocial tendencies, which I observed in action and of which he was rather proud (he admitted what he did).

But no public humiliation of the sort that BK might have endured (I need his perspective though - he may have egged the prof on or volunteered, as this guy I'm discussing certainly did). I have seen mock trials many times, including ones based on the experiences of different parties in the classroom, and yes, it can get really aggressive - but, so can law school and the courtroom needs to be managed. I presume the Prof styled himself as Judge. There are definitely different kinds of judges, but I need BK's viewpoint before I weigh in on what really happened and whether he, himself, felt "bullied" by it.

IMO as usual.

 

[girlhasnoname]

We have no idea what his "goal" was nor does all behavior have an objective goal. Sometimes, behavior is the result of other disorders. Sometimes, people don't read social cues well and have interpersonal conflict that arises from that.

IMO, we have no information to make any kind of meaningful determination of any goal he may have had nor do we have any evidence of bullying of his students.

I'd say at minimum, the defendant has a problem with social cues.

One goal I think he had was (allegedly) committing murder on November 12th, of which he more than succeeded.

I don't claim to know his mental state, whether he was bullied, overweight, used heroin, was vegan, took boxing classes, was a jerk TA, graded harshly, harassed and demoralized women, but I do know he is accused of entering that home on that night and brutally murdering four innocent college students. Why? Who knows for sure, but it does not excuse or negate the fact of these actions.

All Just My Opinion

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'd say at minimum, the defendant had a problem with social cues.

One goal I think he had was (allegedly) committing murder on November 12th, of which he more than succeeded.

I don't claim to know his mental state, whether he was bullied, overweight, used heroin, was vegan, took boxing classes, was a jerk TA, graded harshly, harassed and demoralized women, but I do know he is accused of entering that home on that night and brutally murdering four innocent college students. Why? Who knows for sure, but it does not excuse or negate the fact of these actions.

All Just My Opinion

I think you're confusing this post with another. I didn't say he didn't have problems with social cues and I realize he allegedly committed murder and no, nothing excuses that. But that isn't what I was talking about in the post you're quoting.

The post you're replying to was about his altercation with his professor and what his "goal" was in during that argument. We have no reason to believe the argument with his professor had anything to do with the murders and we don't know the background of the argument, so I don't think we can speak to his goal during it. That's all that post was about.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So, are we to believe the NYT or WSU (Phil Weiler)? What does WSU have to gain by breaking federal student privacy laws? Wouldn't they be smarter to do whatever they can to make WSU look good (such as following federal laws) especially given the fact a potential murderer was one of their grad students?
Edited to correct WSU.

This is what was said by WSU: <snipped & UBM>

"Phil Weiler, a vice president and spokesman for W.S.U., said a federal student privacy law prohibited him from commenting in detail on Mr. Kohberger’s history with the university. He said only that Mr. Kohberger was no longer enrolled at the university."

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think you're confusing this post with another. I didn't say he didn't have problems with social cues and I realize he allegedly committed murder and no, nothing excuses that. But that isn't what I was talking about in the post you're quoting.

The post you're replying to was about his altercation with his professor and what his "goal" was in during that argument. We have no reason to believe the argument with his professor had anything to do with the murders and we don't know the background of the argument, so I don't think we can speak to his goal during it. That's all that post was about.

It seems we've been circling the drain a bit. I'm confused, I guess it's time to call it a night.

 

[maconrich]

This is what was said by WSU: <snipped & UBM>

"Phil Weiler, a vice president and spokesman for W.S.U., said a federal student privacy law prohibited him from commenting in detail on Mr. Kohberger’s history with the university. He said only that Mr. Kohberger was no longer enrolled at the university."

MOO

Not sure if TA receives same protection under FERPA as students (at WSU)?

FERPA Rights and Privacy

 

[NCWatcher]

Not sure if TA receives same protection under FERPA as students (at WSU)?

FERPA Rights and Privacy

He certainly has rights under FERPA as a grad student.