ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

[Ruminations]

If I remember correctly, the ME said Tylee was not alive when burned. And the FBI anthropologist said the injuries to her bones happened "near" the time of death.

And the injuries to her bones, "near" time of death, were not consistent with dismembering. It sounds like injuries done to her pubic area for some reason other than dismembering.

A femur was nibbled on by some mammal. When would that happen, without some parts being carried off? Did some animal snack from the fire pit? The shed?

I don't get it. And I probably shouldn't want to. What a heartbreak.

Moo.

 

[LinasK]

Tylee suffered a brutal death. Otherwise there would have been no need to burn the body and cover the causes. I believe she was beaten or shot.
I can’t even imagine the horror in JJ’s eyes knowing his own mother and/or uncle was smothering him and taking his life away. How he must have wanted to fight to remove the tape from his mouth so he could breathe. I wish Rob Woods would drive this home for the jurors. But my opinion is that he’s too soft.

I've always suspected that she was shot, hence Chad's comment about shooting the raccoon. He was referring to Tylee as a raccoon.

 

[KonaHonu]

Tylee suffered a brutal death. Otherwise there would have been no need to burn the body and cover the causes. I believe she was beaten or shot.

I have always wondered about Chad's story about shooting a raccoon. Could that have been to cover up both the reason for the disturbed ground in the pet cemetary AND neighbors maybe mentioning to Tammy that they heard a gunshot?

I can't even think about how that would have worked!

 

[wnk]

A femur was nibbled on by some mammal. When would that happen, without some parts being carried off? Did some animal snack from the fire pit? The shed?

I was wondering that as well. Does anyone know if the Daybells had a dog at the time?

 

[indicolite22]

I was wondering that as well. Does anyone know if the Daybells had a dog at the time?

What about rodents?

 

[k-mac]

I completely agree. But my understanding of Idaho law is that they have to prove there was an agreement to commit murder. The prosecution is doing a great job of presenting evidence against Chad and Alex. They have presented a a few things against Lori like her comment that "2manykids" was a funny wifi password, searching for life insurance on kids, etc. But were I a juror, it would fall FAR shorth at this point. Boring me with the how many times she texted her boyfriend and brother is counterproductive because it just tells me they have nothing against her, especially after the lead detective testifies they have nothing against her.

She told Mel G and others when asked she knew were JJ was and he was safe.
The man she went on to marry had burried them in his yard.
Chad was not a man of means or money. None of them were.

Lori had few friends and less trusted allies.

Where could Lori have handed the kids over to be "safe"????

come on now. It's enough .

Summers phone call Lori implies that she had accepted their deaths and was moving on when she married Chad.
Only problem for her there is the kids hadn't been found when she married Chad.
Collectively that is more than enough.

moo

 

[indicolite22]

I still can't get my head around it. If it was Alex who did most of the destruction, how could he stomach it?. They had got on well for years? Did Alex get some drugs to summon up the courage?

But..... because Lori had started claiming Tylee was a zombie from around spring, how could Alex pose next to her smiling in that photo at Yellowstone? ( or is he grinning knowingly? I posted photo on the previous page)

Alex texted ZP on Sept 1 that Tylee was a dark portal. Then they were joking about creating an inner tornado for her (ZP thought she could manipulate the weather). IMO he probably knew before they left Arizona that Tylee would be murdered. Alex believed everything Chad and Lori said about zombies.

 

[Gardenista]

Lori Hellis said she thinks we might be getting closing arguments early next week. Upthread I posted that CTV said Chad's parents are testifying Monday. I wonder if they are testifying for the defense.

 

[Gardenista]

What about rodents?

What about a raccoon?

 

[k-mac]

Let's not forget that MG and DW were in the apartment at the time. Noises like tearing duct tape would likely be heard so that would be a HUGE risk. I have no opinion about whether it was 1 or 2 people, Alex or Lori or both. But it just seems very hard to believe that anyone would try to kill the kid with other people in the house. Obviously they did though. That's why I would love to hear the nature of DW's nightmare.

But that perspective has to believe that the visitors where completely out of the loop.

Their religious beliefs and devotion to their special cult leaves a very dark feeling of foreboding around that night and who knew what.

I am not prepared to give either visitor the benefit of ignorance.
It is just not reasonable to exclude them (or include them).

Just not enough to point either way.
Which allows plenty of doubt in their version of events.

Grey area.

 

[indicolite22]

Lori Hellis said she thinks we might be getting closing arguments early next week. Upthread I posted that CTV said Chad's parents are testifying Monday. I wonder if they are testifying for the defense.

They don't know Lori, so they can't testify about her character pre-Chad like her sister. I think Lori and Chad lied to his parents about Lori being an empty nester (technically they didn't lie, because the children were dead).

 

[Ruminations]

I've always suspected that she was shot, hence Chad's comment about shooting the raccoon. He was referring to Tylee as a raccoon.

No evidence of a gunshot to what was left of Tylee was presented.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

But that perspective has to believe that the visitors where completely out of the loop.

Their religious beliefs and devotion to their special cult leaves a very dark feeling of foreboding around that night and who knew what.

I am not prepared to give either visitor the benefit of ignorance.
It is just not reasonable to exclude them (or include them).

Just not enough to point either way.
Which allows plenty of doubt in their version of events.

Grey area.

Alex's apartment wasn't adjacent to Lori's so commotion in his apartment would not have been heard by Lori's guests.

 

[KMouse]

I can't help but wonder if any fingerprints were taken off of the duct tape.

Duct tape speaks to premeditation. Also, no fingerprints=gloves=premeditation

 

[k-mac]

Alex's apartment wasn't adjacent to Lori's so commotion in his apartment would not have been heard by Lori's guests.

But there is no proof as to which apartment it happened.

 

[indicolite22]

But there is no proof as to which apartment it happened.

No, there isn't (apart from Lori's alibi statement), but Lori and Alex had options to prevent being heard by MG and DW. Of course Alex's neighbors could have heard something.

 

[KonaHonu]

Alex's apartment wasn't adjacent to Lori's so commotion in his apartment would not have been heard by Lori's guests.

We've heard testimony that Alex brough a sleeping JJ back to Lori's apartment late in the evening of the 22nd. At that point he could have been drugged. So why bring him back if you are just going to kill him? It is possible that Lori took him to Alex's apartment in the middle of the night and they killed him together but that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But doing it in Lori's apartment with visitors there makes even less sense.

I don't think MG and DW are involved.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

GHB... commonly known as the date rape drug

Would be interesting to know what Alex went to Mexico for.

 

[BUF]

Duct tape speaks to premeditation. Also, no fingerprints=gloves=premeditation

Yes, they had to have had the duct tape available, but using gloves with duct tape is almost impossible. There must have been something on the duct tape … fingerprints, hair, fibers, but wondering if all the decomp that was testified to in the grave affected anything.

 

[indicolite22]

We've heard testimony that Alex brough a sleeping JJ back to Lori's apartment late in the evening of the 22nd. At that point he could have been drugged. So why bring him back if you are just going to kill him? It is possible that Lori took him to Alex's apartment in the middle of the night and they killed him together but that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But doing it in Lori's apartment with visitors there makes even less sense.

I don't think MG and DW are involved.

I agree. But when Alex brought JJ in that last evening, JJ wasn't wearing his pajamas in which he was later found. To me it's more likely that JJ was just sleeping at that point and that murder was planned for later, possibly when Lori had her bedroom door locked because she left.