ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #71

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS* NO DISCUSSION #2

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 - TIMELINE ONLY *NO DISCUSSION*

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[Sillybilly]

OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

There seems to be some confusion and concerns being expressed about Timeline posts not being linked in the Opening Posts.

Mods, Admins, Coordinators ... we've all had discussion about this over the last year and we just don't know why or when members started requesting WS staff to make all these additions and changes to the Opening Posts of new threads. We are a very limited staff and this is something members have historically done on their own that doesn't create any extra work for WS staff.

It is a very simple system that was set up years ago and has worked well in the past. We don't need to duplicate effort or reinvent the wheel here.

In each forum, i.e. "Located Persons Discussion", members will see at the top of the page, a sub forum called for example "Located Timeline and Media Links"

As you can see, any member can start an appropriately titled new timeline thread within such a forum and make or copy their Timeline posts and all subsequent revisions or updates into that thread. It can be titled something like Vallow & Daybell Media, Maps & Timeline (or just Vallow & Daybell Timeline thread if they want to keep it separate and apart from Media and Maps). If the thread gets titled Media, Maps and Timelines, all members have to do is use the search feature within that thread for the word Timeline. That's what these features are for.

When a member has created the Timeline thread, WS staff link it ONCE in the Opening Post and it never has to be changed again, regardless of whether it's 1 or 100 new discussion threads for any given case.

If there is any question about the above, please contact any Mod or Admin and we'll be glad to clarify.

If nobody else is going to do it for this case, when one of us gets time (not sure when that will be), we will set up the timeline thread for you in this case and copy all of Gardener1850's timeline posts into it. We will update the link in the Opening Post and it will never have to change after that.

Truly hope this clarifies.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Mommacass has now been verified as a family member. We'll leave it to mommacass if they wish to share how they factor into the family relationships in this case.

As a verified member, mommacass does not have to provide links to the information they provide. You may ask mommacass questions but it is up to them whether they answer or not.

Please be respectful to them at all times and do not argue with them or badger them for information.

 

[aafromaa]

3 To keep it clear, it was NOT the DNA evidence itself that caused the trials to be severed. And the inference seemed to be that it might be very helpful to the defense. But LE had dawdled and missed the deadline to get it to the defense to examine and perhaps be able to use in this trial, as required by law. Last we heard, it still wasn't ready.

What severed the trials was that Lori wanted a speedy trial, as is her right, and didn't want to wait for this evidence that was still not being provided. There was no way to delay the trial legally. But CD wanted his full evidence and was in no hurry to get to trial. Both defendants were in the right as to what they wanted, so there was no choice but to have the trials separately.

BBM

I thought the hearing that took place in late Feb or early March (when the judge severed the trials) was brought about because the DNA results came back?????

Also, to be fair to the prosecution on this one, it was not entirely their fault that this took so long. They requested to do the consumptive testing long ago but the judge put it on hold - I don’t recall exactly but somewhere in my mind I’m thinking that it took several months to get the okay to do the testing because it would consume the samples.

DNA evidence testing on hold in Vallow-Daybell case

The defense team for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Daybell wants to conduct its own testing of DNA evidence, but there may not be enough to do that.

kslnewsradio.com

Lori Vallow-Daybell, Chad Daybell to be tried separately after new DNA evidence introduced

New evidence prompted a judge to sever Lori Vallow-Daybell and Chad Daybell's trials into two.

kutv.com

 

[indicolite22]

just a writer. I'd never heard of him before either & got his surname wrong.
ex journalist who does a lot of true crime &seems to have done a lot of early research on this case. I haven't read his book but had seen this interview

edited to add- just noticed already asked &answered by Jolyanna

I agree. Apart from interviewing Lori's childhood friend, Glatt doesn't seem to bring up anything new.

 

[k-mac]

I've always been suspicious of the AC death. I think most of us have been. But...

You may be right. Covid can (did) cause major embolisms in some. His symptoms do sound like covid many of us experienced. And it offers an understandable explanation for us wondering about his death. I like this as a possibility.

He also had some of the "co-morbidities" that, when covid was contracted, would together typically be likely to cause death.

But if that's what happened, it's a dead end idea for us. LE would never go back and do any testing to try to figure out "covid or not."

In general, it's naturally hard for me to imagine AC died WITHOUT being killed off. There are so many things that make it seem likely. But many others wonder the same way, INCLUDING LE, and LE was all over it, as they pursued the possibility and tried to find a killing and came up dry. They were there. They looked hard. They have access to sources and experts to consult. So maybe it was just a very odd twist in the road of life - as they do happen sometimes, even in very weird ways.

I think for most people what ever the ME says thats it.

However inquisitive minds know .......many a time they are dead wrong/ and making an educated deliberation when sometimes quite a few options are on the table.
It comes down to their opinion alone as to what goes on that legal document. ONE person.

Should be 3 INDEPENDANT ME signatures IMO.
Yes big costs but this is the most important components of life and death.


How many times has a body been exhumed to find completely different cause of death to whats documented? TOO MANY.
Even one in this case, Tammy Daybell!
Original Medical report said she died of natural causes ..when she was murdered by strangulation. SMH.

Alex's death is the most suspicious of all to me.
His new wife said at the hospital to LE am I a suspect???
huh?
ok.

moo

 

[SteveS]

BBM

1 I thought the hearing that took place in late Feb or early March (when the judge severed the trials) was brought about because the DNA results came back?????

2 Also, to be fair to the prosecution on this one, it was not entirely their fault that this took so long. They requested to do the consumptive testing long ago but the judge put it on hold - I don’t recall exactly but somewhere in my mind I’m thinking that it took several months to get the okay to do the testing because it would consume the samples.

1 There was a hearing re the DNA evidence results, then another about 6-7 days later. The issue on the 2nd was how to deal with the fact that evidence was being provided past the deadline. One piece of that was DNA results that STILL needed more testing, but other evidence had been submitted late as well.

...Fwiw, the DNA was almost certainly evidence favoring (or potentially helping) the defense, based on comments made by ALL the parties, including Boyce.

In the hearings, the prosecution argued that it had given the majority of evidence to the defense team by the deadline, an excuse which Boyce pushed back at strongly, saying, “These are capital charges — are the defense not entitled to all of the disclosure? They are entitled to all evidence — not the bulk or majority.” Daybell’s defense team argued that it was given evidence too late for an April trial and the prosecution argued that it was enough time. Ultimately, Boyce concurred with the defense, with it being indisputable that there was a deadline in place to ensure the defense had time needed, and the prosecution didn't honor it; so he severed the trials to give Chad's defense plenty of time to have and examine ALL the evidence before trial.

2 I'm not sympathetic to the prosecution in this situation at all. There were other issues with lateness beyond just the DNA testing. And the fact that there had been a bit of delay in the opportunity for testing is not persuasive when the prosecution had over 2 years to get things tested and handed over to the defense, giving them way more than the usual 6-month timeline in which they are supposed to meet all the requirements and get to trial. I see people who clearly knew the deadlines, committed to the court they could meet them, then waited until the last minute and had issues as a result. IMO it's really on them.

3 As far as the end result, I don't think they lost anything, because imo the trials should have been severed from the outset anyhow, for purposes of legal fairness.

 

[cottonweaver]

I agree. Apart from interviewing Lori's childhood friend, Glatt doesn't seem to bring up anything new.

Quite a few times during that interview Lauren M replies that she didn't know such & such or that X had confirmed something. So at the point he was researching & before he published he must have uncovered some stuff which wasn't in the public domain at that early stage.

eg the Lori conversation with her childhood best friend aged 12 ( Alex sexual abuse)

 

[cottonweaver]

I think for most people what ever the ME says thats it.

However inquisitive minds know .......many a time they are dead wrong/ and making an educated deliberation when sometimes quite a few options are on the table.
It comes down to their opinion alone as to what goes on that legal document. ONE person.

Should be 3 INDEPENDANT ME signatures IMO.
Yes big costs but this is the most important components of life and death.


How many times has a body been exhumed to find completely different cause of death to whats documented? TOO MANY.
Even one in this case, Tammy Daybell!
Original Medical report said she died of natural causes ..when she was murdered by strangulation. SMH.

Alex's death is the most suspicious of all to me.
His new wife said at the hospital to LE am I a suspect???
huh?
ok.

moo

while I think Alex's death could have been natural, I thought him saying to Zulema that he'd left a bag of cash just in case anything happened to him was odd.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445836272744890376

( I'm assuming that Zulema mentioned that again last week but I can't find a reference to it right now. If Z wasn't asked about that again last week, that's weird. Was expecting to find it in this thread below)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1646956012153499654

 

[indicolite22]

It has details such as Chad having had multiple affairs; having spoken to others about his supposed visions that T would die young but this was prior to meeting Lori; that quite a few men in the more extreme cult groups were also using this line with women they planned to seduce!
wtte of ' I've had a vision my spouse will die early so I will be free...'

SBM. On a related note, I'm re-listening to HTC's interview with one of Julie Rowe's disciples and her husband. Apparently multiple probations got introduced by JR to her group sometime between July and September 2018. Being connected in a previous life was also used as a pickup line. Apart from that, it was a means to label people (like certain celebrities) dark, because they were a bad person in a previous probation. In Chad's group, BB was said to have been Hitler's right hand in another life. According to Chad, MG and ZP were previously Lori's daughters.

ETA: JR's second in command was grooming this woman by claiming they had been married in a previous life and that they had to be together in the present, despite both having spouses (who were supposed to be supportive of the idea or, if they were unaware, were supposed to die). Chad used the same method on Lori.

 

[indicolite22]

SBM. On a related note, I'm re-listening to HTC's interview with one of Julie Rowe's disciples and her husband. Apparently multiple probations got introduced by JR to her group sometime between July and September 2018. Being connected in a previous life was also used as a pickup line. Apart from that, it was a means to label people (like certain celebrities) dark, because they were a bad person in a previous probation. In Chad's group, BB was said to have been Hitler's right hand in another life. According to Chad, MG and ZP were previously Lori's daughters.

ETA: JR's second in command was grooming this woman by claiming they had been married in a previous life and that they had to be together in the present, despite both having spouses (who were supposed to be supportive of the idea or, if they were unaware, were supposed to die). Chad used the same method on Lori.

In the aforementioned HTC video, the interviewees also describe how, a couple months before Tammy's death, they met Chad and his family at a party. Chad did not speak to Tammy at the event and would not sit with his family but with another group. He told them that MG and DW were having an affair and were getting divorces. Of course he didn't mention that he was cheating on Tammy and the people telling the story weren't aware of it at the time.

 

[Ruminations]

I know the prosecution said TD died of asphyxiation but was there any testimony on what caused the asphyxiatio? Or are we expecting there to be?

And I know that Tylee’s body was burned and dismembered and JJ’s was bound but was this the cause of death or done to the bodies after death? Have we had any testimony on that or are we expecting any?

Also, I’m waiting for DNA evidence - specifically on the duct tape, hair, & tools from CD property as it seems to have really riled up his lawyers and changed the judge’s mind on severing the trials so I’m hoping that means it is very incriminating for CD. Has prosecution given any idea when that might be coming?

Has their witness list been made public? I know they had to submit one to the court but I haven’t been able to find it so I’m thinking it may not be something released to the public.

The witness list is not public, so every day we have surprises!

No ME witnesses have testified yet.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

SBM. On a related note, I'm re-listening to HTC's interview with one of Julie Rowe's disciples and her husband. Apparently multiple probations got introduced by JR to her group sometime between July and September 2018. Being connected in a previous life was also used as a pickup line. Apart from that, it was a means to label people (like certain celebrities) dark, because they were a bad person in a previous probation. In Chad's group, BB was said to have been Hitler's right hand in another life. According to Chad, MG and ZP were previously Lori's daughters.

ETA: JR's second in command was grooming this woman by claiming they had been married in a previous life and that they had to be together in the present, despite both having spouses (who were supposed to be supportive of the idea or, if they were unaware, were supposed to die). Chad used the same method on Lori.

That Girl on Fire interview was the one that made me realise how this kind of group can suck very reasonable people in- ruin the marriages- tap them out financially. It greatly increased my empathy for victims.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

1 There was a hearing re the DNA evidence results, then another about 6-7 days later. The issue on the 2nd was how to deal with the fact that evidence was being provided past the deadline. One piece of that was DNA results that STILL needed more testing, but other evidence had been submitted late as well.

...Fwiw, the DNA was almost certainly evidence favoring (or potentially helping) the defense, based on comments made by ALL the parties, including Boyce.

In the hearings, the prosecution argued that it had given the majority of evidence to the defense team by the deadline, an excuse which Boyce pushed back at strongly, saying, “These are capital charges — are the defense not entitled to all of the disclosure? They are entitled to all evidence — not the bulk or majority.” Daybell’s defense team argued that it was given evidence too late for an April trial and the prosecution argued that it was enough time. Ultimately, Boyce concurred with the defense, with it being indisputable that there was a deadline in place to ensure the defense had time needed, and the prosecution didn't honor it; so he severed the trials to give Chad's defense plenty of time to have and examine ALL the evidence before trial.

2 I'm not sympathetic to the prosecution in this situation at all. There were other issues with lateness beyond just the DNA testing. And the fact that there had been a bit of delay in the opportunity for testing is not persuasive when the prosecution had over 2 years to get things tested and handed over to the defense, giving them way more than the usual 6-month timeline in which they are supposed to meet all the requirements and get to trial. I see people who clearly knew the deadlines, committed to the court they could meet them, then waited until the last minute and had issues as a result. IMO it's really on them.

3 As far as the end result, I don't think they lost anything, because imo the trials should have been severed from the outset anyhow, for purposes of legal fairness.

It appears the prosecution secured considerable victories in February by getting information about the shootings of Charles and Brandon into the trial.

But this is not a forum on the prosecution.

It is a victim- friendly platform to discuss the murders of Charles, Tylee, JJ and Tammy.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

This week Lori Hellis had her own "Do you know who I am?" moment in court. She explained what happened on her yt channel. Before the court session started on Tuesday, she was ejected from the main courtroom because someone (reportedly Lori's defense attorney JA) complained about her trying to take a picture with her phone. A court official checked her phone and found nothing. Following that another official tried to confiscate her phone. She refused to hand it over. After exiting the courtroom she was allowed in the overflow room, but only until lunch, when she was asked to leave. She was allowed to have a meeting with judge Boyce at the end of the next day. He reviewed the courtroom video and stated that there was another incident involving her. LH told the judge "You know me", but the judge denied recognizing her. A few months ago she argued a motion in front of him about unsealing court documents. It turned out that LH's phone also went off in court before and that she exchanged a few words with the defense's investigator inside the courtroom (according to her unrelated to the case). LH can attend the rest of the trial in the overfloow room, but is not allowed in the main courtroom any more. She believes she has been singled out by the judge.

 

[BUF]

This week Lori Hellis had her own "Do you know who I am?" moment in court. She explained what happened on her yt channel. Before the court session started on Tuesday, she was ejected from the main courtroom because someone (reportedly Lori's defense attorney JA) complained about her trying to take a picture with her phone. A court official checked her phone and found nothing. Following that another official tried to confiscate her phone. She refused to hand it over. After exiting the courtroom she was allowed in the overflow room, but only until lunch, when she was asked to leave. She was allowed to have a meeting with judge Boyce at the end of the next day. He reviewed the courtroom video and stated that there was another incident involving her. LH told the judge "You know me", but the judge denied recognizing her. A few months ago she argued a motion in front of him about unsealing court documents. It turned out that LH's phone also went off in court before and that she exchanged a few words with the defense's investigator inside the courtroom (according to her unrelated to the case). LH can attend the rest of the trial in the overfloow room, but is not allowed in the main courtroom any more. She believes she has been singled out by the judge.

She also posted it all on her Twitter.

Just another drama within the trial drama. moo

 

[indicolite22]

She also posted it all on her Twitter.

Just another drama within the trial drama. moo

I rarely disagree with her, but I think in this case the judge is trying to eliminate all the distractions. It shouldn't matter who she is.

 

[cottonweaver]

why Lauren Mathias was 'triggered' by David Warwick's testimony & why forensic psych John Mathias is concerned about the Mel Gibb & Warwick testimony on the nightmare & whether it happened as they said

Good to know that we're not alone in querying these aspects ( as we were on the last thread)

from around 1 hour onwards on their latest show

PS Lauren also clarifies the timing - according to DW- of when the supposed cabinet climbing happened ( middle of the night! I didn't realise that)

 

[indicolite22]

why Lauren Mathias was 'triggered' by David Warwick's testimony & why forensic psych John Mathias is concerned about the Mel Gibb & Warwick testimony on the nightmare & whether it happened as they said

Good to know that we're not alone in querying these aspects ( as we were on the last thread)

from around 1 hour onwards on their latest show

PS Lauren also clarifies the timing - according to DW- of when the supposed cabinet climbing happened ( middle of the night! I didn't realise that)

Why did the defense not jump on it if MG's and DW's testimonies were problematic? If there was texting between them and L&C that night, LE have the contents and so does the defense. If they only have phone calls, their content is a matter of speculation.

 

[cottonweaver]

Why did the defense not jump on it if MG's and DW's testimonies were problematic? If there was texting between them and L&C that night, LE has the contents and so does the defense. If they only have phone calls, their content is a matter of speculation.

Think we're at cross purposes - the Mathiases' in the new show I just linked to - aren't speculating about the contents of texts to L & C