IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[girlhasnoname]

when is the trial?

I think it will be set during RA's bond hearing scheduled for June 15 & 16.

 

[somequestions]

I wonder how many people think Richard Allen is guilty of the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German?

I know you cannot explain away the ballistics evidence in this case. But the strange thing is that the height of the man in the bridge video does not appear to be the same height as Richard Allen. My unscientific way of measuring the height of the man on the bridge has them at least 5' 9" tall.

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

 

[Gemmie]

I wonder how many people think Richard Allen is guilty of the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German?

I know you cannot explain away the ballistics evidence in this case. But the strange thing is that the height of the man in the bridge video does not appear to be the same height as Richard Allen. My unscientific way of measuring the height of the man on the bridge has them at least 5' 9" tall.

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

His height was answered in this post:

Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

When he was initially arrested, there was an error entered into the system about his alleged alias. It took several days before they edited that, and got rid of it. Then they say he's been moved to an undisclosed location, but yesterday on the Indiana Dept. of Corrections, it took me 2 seconds...

www.websleuths.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

Defendant	ALLEN, RICHARD M
	Description Male, White, 5' 4", 180 lbs. Address

37C01-1111-IF-001671

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I wonder how many people think Richard Allen is guilty of the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German?

I know you cannot explain away the ballistics evidence in this case. But the strange thing is that the height of the man in the bridge video does not appear to be the same height as Richard Allen. My unscientific way of measuring the height of the man on the bridge has them at least 5' 9" tall.

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

I don't think anything is strange about BG's height estimate as given by LE, he was 5'6" to 5'10'', when BG was wearing boots and a hat. You can't be sure if that hat is sitting high on his head or not. Since the height was removed from a later bulletin, I think it's possible the concern was that people would hesitate to report anyone they thought was too tall to be the short man on the bridge. This led some to incorrectly believe that RL, KAK, KK and other quite large men could be BG. MOO
The FBI has scientific ways and equipment to estimate height, compare to fixed objects, an estimate of tibia bone length, reenactments, etc.

The Delphi Killings: Everything we know five years after Abby & Libby were killed

Five years ago Liberty German and Abigail Williams went for a walk in the woods near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. They would never be seen alive again.

www.wrtv.com

 

[JosieMae]

Would be interesting to see a known photo of RA wearing jeans. It's obvious (now) how this pair is excessively long on BG.

 

[JosieMae]

I don't think anything is strange about BG's height estimate as given by LE, he was 5'6" to 5'10'', when BG was wearing boots and a hat. You can't be sure if that hat is sitting high on his head or not. Since the height was removed from a later bulletin, I think it's possible the concern was that people would hesitate to report anyone they thought was too tall to be the short man on the bridge. This led some to incorrectly believe that RL, KAK, KK and other quite large men could be BG. MOO
The FBI has scientific ways and equipment to estimate height, compare to fixed objects, an estimate of tibia bone length, reenactments, etc.

The Delphi Killings: Everything we know five years after Abby & Libby were killed

Five years ago Liberty German and Abigail Williams went for a walk in the woods near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. They would never be seen alive again.

www.wrtv.com

Would like to see a full-length known photo of RA in jeans. It's obvious (now) that BG's pair are excessively long.

 

[Justice101]

I wonder how many people think Richard Allen is guilty of the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German?

I know you cannot explain away the ballistics evidence in this case. But the strange thing is that the height of the man in the bridge video does not appear to be the same height as Richard Allen. My unscientific way of measuring the height of the man on the bridge has them at least 5' 9" tall.

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

Height estimates are just that... height. It will not be entered as hard evidence... just a partial description of BG based on triangulation, shadows from the sun etc. I mean you can't even tell if the dude in the video has brown hair or is wearing a hat.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Defendant	ALLEN, RICHARD M
	Description Male, White, 5' 4", 180 lbs. Address

37C01-1111-IF-001671

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

I know I've seen a photo showing him standing in front of a height marker and showed he was 5 6'.

@Gardenista you were the one that helped me with that way back.

 

[somequestions]

I know I've seen a photo showing him standing in front of a height marker and showed he was 5 6'.

@Gardenista you were the one that helped me with that way back.

Ok, so is Richard Allen 5'4" or 5'6" tall?

I understand that he probably is the killer based on the ballistics and circumstantial evidence, but there are lots of people that wear blue jeans and have a blue jacket.

Shouldn't people want to be sure?

 

[Kittybunny]

Ok, so is Richard Allen 5'4" or 5'6" tall?

I understand that he probably is the killer based on the ballistics and circumstantial evidence, but there are lots of people that wear blue jeans and have a blue jacket.

Shouldn't people want to be sure?

Sure, but that's why there will be a trial where all the rest of the evidence will be presented. Personally, I find the fact that he himself placed himself on the bridge that day pretty damning.

But...Me, or really anyone else on this forum, believing in his guilt or innocence and opining about it means nothing. Our opinion does not influence the outcome of the trial.

 

[Kittybunny]

DBM

 

[Justice101]

Some have expressed concerns about a person that is presumed innocent being kept in a prison, housed the same as the convicted felons that are now being punished. This is not, and I'm not that you're saying it is, equal to feeling sorry for him. I believe that RA is absolutely guilty but I respect anyone that insists he is innocent until proven guilty and must be treated accordingly and not differently than other defendants awaiting trial.
What should the judge have done?
She certainly couldn't make a decision based on animous toward the defendant. A fair trial and appeals were probably a consideration. The more grounds for appeals that the defense sees, the more likely they will go to trial and then appeal. I wish he would get the death penalty but a jury wouldn't decide on that until after conviction and I don't trust that path to the DP. The safest route is for RA to plead guilty, MOO, because I want the surest path to justice for the victims.



Another inmate writing a letter of that nature would be possible evidence and could not be entered as inmate correspondence into the court record. That would go to LE and the prosecutor for follow-up and the defense would have to be notified asap if there was any new evidence developed, as discovery must be done and the pretrial is nearing.

So, if we kept the convicted in other areas from the accused.. we'd need to build more jails...which is waste of money. Every jurisdiction houses the convicted with the accused. besides... RA is in his own cell and isolated from the others

 

[somequestions]

Sure, but that's why there will be a trial where all the rest of the evidence will be presented. Personally, I find the fact that he himself placed himself on the bridge that day pretty damning.

But...Me, or really anyone else on this forum, believing in his guilt or innocence and opining about it means nothing. Our opinion does not influence the outcome of the trial.

I meant shouldn't detectives want to be sure about something as basic as a person's height when compared to the video so that on the off chance the person is found not guilty, law enforcement does not end up looking like the boy that cried wolf.

 

[FrostedGlass]

So, if we kept the convicted in other areas from the accused.. we'd need to build more jails...which is waste of money. Every jurisdiction houses the convicted with the accused. besides... RA is in his own cell and isolated from the others

In Indiana, convicted and accused can be houses together in county jails. It's mostly unheard of to place an accused in an Indiana state prison.

 

[M. Kay]

In Indiana, convicted and accused can be house(d) together in county jails. It's mostly unheard of to place an accused in an Indiana state prison.

I've been considering much longer than usual, how to reply to Frosted Glass. Mostly I want to continue this topic fairly.
I listened uncomfortably to MS interview with currently incarcerated resident's report of others jeering RA in that state facility. This isn't usual jailing, perhaps resulting in harm to RA and/or the case? Best for all involved: do 'by the book'.
He did in freedom's fresh air avoid justice for over five long years. I've judged him guilty, unfairly perhaps. From that view: "well, this is his peer group now." But admitting my words feels shadowy; awaiting trial in bedlam can't be just.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I've been considering much longer than usual, how to reply to Frosted Glass. Mostly I want to continue this topic fairly.
I listened uncomfortably to MS interview with currently incarcerated resident's report of others jeering RA in that state facility. This isn't usual jailing, perhaps resulting in harm to RA and/or the case? Best for all involved: do 'by the book'.
He did in freedom's fresh air avoid justice for over five long years. I've judged him guilty, unfairly perhaps. From that view: "well, this is his peer group now." But admitting my words feels shadowy; awaiting trial in bedlam can't be just.

Thank you; I like your reply a lot. The sentence I put in red is so important.

 

[TheBishop]

I wonder how many people think Richard Allen is guilty of the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German?

I know you cannot explain away the ballistics evidence in this case. But the strange thing is that the height of the man in the bridge video does not appear to be the same height as Richard Allen. My unscientific way of measuring the height of the man on the bridge has them at least 5' 9" tall.

Has anyone been able to prove that Richard Allen's height is the same height as the man in the bridge video?

But you CAN explain away the ballistics... ballistic tests are not always accepted as conclusive when made on unspent casings. This is a grey area with much opposing expert opinions when, as in this case, the bullet has not been fired from a gun, but has been expelled and therefore is without the markings found on spent bullet casings. There's much argument needed to prove that this bullet came from this actual gun and not another...
Just saying...

 

[Error505]

Sure, but that's why there will be a trial where all the rest of the evidence will be presented. Personally, I find the fact that he himself placed himself on the bridge that day pretty damning.

But...Me, or really anyone else on this forum, believing in his guilt or innocence and opining about it means nothing. Our opinion does not influence the outcome of the trial.

BBM for emphasis

Agree 100%. How many other men have placed themselves at that bridge, on that day, at that time? Zero to my knowledge.
Self-reporting to a conservation officer is suspect to me! MOO

EBM clarification

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

So, if we kept the convicted in other areas from the accused.. we'd need to build more jails...which is waste of money. Every jurisdiction houses the convicted with the accused. besides... RA is in his own cell and isolated from the others

I disagree, this is not how it works in a prison or a county jail. In a prison, anyone pending trial is not housed/celled with the inmates, which have been convicted and are serving a sentence for a felony. I've never made a comment that he shouldn't be isolated, separated from the convicts. He has to be and that is not an issue to me.
Defendants are rarely in prison to await trial. County jails already serve the purpose of housing defendants awaiting trial, those that were just booked and being processed to post bail, and those sentenced, typically, to a year or less for lesser crimes. In my county's large county jail, those serving a sentence are kept on the upper floors or farmed out to an out-of-area less secured facility. Modern jails and prisons already have different units to keep certain populations separated. No new facilities would be needed.

It appears that RA has already been moved, do you take issue with the judge's decision? The judge can't just respond to RA's attorneys with the kind of opinions/comments being made here. That is just not how things work in the legal system. MOO