4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[katydid23]

IMO - I’m interested in this too & also…… why drive his car to & from the crime scene? Just these two mistakes seem ridiculously stupid. MOO

I know it seems like a stupid mistake. But then again, how else was he going to get there?

If he borrowed a car, that leaves a witness.
If he steals a car, he could get pulled over at any time, possibly with a bloody weapon and bloody clothing still in the car.
If he rents a car, he has to use his ID and Ins, etc.
If he Ubers, same problems exist.

How should he have gotten to the crime scene without taking his car?

 

[Helechawagirl]

IMO - I’m interested in this too & also…… why drive his car to & from the crime scene? Just these two mistakes seem ridiculously stupid. MOO

Wonder if he was more interested in the psychological perspective of a killer than the mechanics of a murder. I’ve not heard that he was a true crime fan. Perhaps not having a license plate on the front of the car made him think it wouldn’t be identified? JMO

 

[SLouTh]

I know it seems like a stupid mistake. But then again, how else was he going to get there?

If he borrowed a car, that leaves a witness.
If he steals a car, he could get pulled over at any time, possibly with a bloody weapon and bloody clothing still in the car.
If he rents a car, he has to use his ID and Ins, etc.
If he Ubers, same problems exist.

How should he have gotten to the crime scene without taking his car?

Agree Katy …. I have been trying to work out how he could use a different car without involving anyone else …. Fairly difficult as you have suggested ..

I just wonder if he could have parked somewhere else … still close by, and covered the rest of the way by foot, but perhaps he thought it was more likely that he would be seen on foot ???? Or a greater chance of leaving a blood or DNA trail???

I think that biggest question is how could a person who already has Masters in Criminology make so many errors?

I know this will be unpopular, but if he was in that particular area for some other purpose, he would have had nothing to hide, and none of these things would be “errors” …

Perhaps it actually wasn’t planned? However I can’t explain why he would have such a large knife, on his person, if that was the case???

JMOoooooo

 

[katydid23]

Agree Katy …. I have been trying to work out how he could use a different car without involving anyone else …. Fairly difficult as you have suggested ..

I just wonder if he could have parked somewhere else … still close by, and covered the rest of the way by foot, but perhaps he thought it was more likely that he would be seen on foot ???? Or a greater chance of leaving a blood or DNA trail???

I think that biggest question is how could a person who already has Masters in Criminology make so many errors?

I know this will be unpopular, but if he was in that particular area for some other purpose, he would have had nothing to hide, and none of these things would be “errors” …

Perhaps it actually wasn’t planned? However I can’t explain why he would have such a large knife, on his person, if that was the case???

JMOoooooo

Yes, parking somewhere else and walking or riding a bicycle seem like a possibility. But then again, so many ring cams and CCTV all around. And you cannot easily spot them all. He still could have easily been spotted by neighbours cameras and tracked back to his car eventually.

 

[TL4S]

I know it seems like a stupid mistake. But then again, how else was he going to get there?

If he borrowed a car, that leaves a witness.
If he steals a car, he could get pulled over at any time, possibly with a bloody weapon and bloody clothing still in the car.
If he rents a car, he has to use his ID and Ins, etc.
If he Ubers, same problems exist.

How should he have gotten to the crime scene without taking his car?

I love this post. It's exactly how we need to think about all of it, imo, because we can question a lot of what he did that day, but when it comes down to it, there were certain things he was willing to risk, out of necessity, because his motivation to commit a crime was more powerful than his fear of getting caught. JMO.

We can also question the scope of his understanding of digital trails (wifi, bluetooth, handshakes, surveillance, cell pings, etc.), but he had an educational background that at least gave him a better than average knowledge of these things, imo. I can't dismiss that.

When he left that early morning, he likely knew somewhere along the line he would be detected. Maybe he thought he'd outsmarted the system, though, because of his knowledge. Maybe that was part of the thrill for him, IDK. But that drive to commit a crime ended up overriding the whole process and he screwed up. JMO.

 

[SLouTh]

Wonder if he was more interested in the psychological perspective of a killer than the mechanics of a murder. I’ve not heard that he was a true crime fan. Perhaps not having a license plate on the front of the car made him think it wouldn’t be identified? JMO

BBM

I think this ^^^may definitely have contributed to not being easily identified, in his thought process….

But on the other hand, if his rear plate was captured on CCTV vision, wouldn’t a PA plate “stand out” ???
Maybe not, after googling the 3 states licence plates …. There are so many variations….. Especially if you add “personalised plates“ into the equation….

Pennsylvania Number Plates
The plate design reflects the "Family of Plates" color scheme of blue, white and yellow. Pennsylvania is printed at the top and the words " VisitPA.com" are printed on the bottom.

Washington State Number Plates
Here's the tab color schedule through 2024: 2020: white 2021: blue 2022: red 2023: green 2024: black The cycle repeats after that.

Idaho Number Plates
license plates with blue numerals and letters on a multicolored red, white and blue background. Each license plate must bear upon its face the inscriptions "Famous Potatoes" and "Scenic Idaho."

 

[TL4S]

BBM

I think this ^^^may definitely have contributed to not being easily identified, in his thought process….

But on the other hand, if his rear plate was captured on CCTV vision, wouldn’t a PA plate “stand out” ???
Maybe not, after googling the 3 states licence plates …. There are so many variations….. Especially if you add “personalised plates“ into the equation….

Pennsylvania Number Plates
The plate design reflects the "Family of Plates" color scheme of blue, white and yellow. Pennsylvania is printed at the top and the words " VisitPA.com" are printed on the bottom.

Washington State Number Plates
Here's the tab color schedule through 2024: 2020: white 2021: blue 2022: red 2023: green 2024: black The cycle repeats after that.

Idaho Number Plates
license plates with blue numerals and letters on a multicolored red, white and blue background. Each license plate must bear upon its face the inscriptions "Famous Potatoes" and "Scenic Idaho."

What really gets me is that as far as we know, LE doesn't have any captures of the rear plate, either. Do we even know if he had plates on the car at all that morning? He would have risked getting pulled over if he took the rear plate off, but then again, in his mind, what was the bigger risk...a cop pulling him over for no plates, or his plate getting captured on camera? Could he have stopped somewhere to take it off before the crime, and then put it back on again after he'd left Moscow?

 

[SLouTh]

What really gets me is that as far as we know, LE doesn't have any captures of the rear plate, either. Do we even know if he had plates on the car at all that morning? He would have risked getting pulled over if he took the rear plate off, but then again, in his mind, what was the bigger risk...a cop pulling him over for no plates, or his plate getting captured on camera? Could he have stopped somewhere to take it off before the crime, and then put it back on again after he'd left Moscow?

I was wondering the exact same thing … I guess we won’t know till trial if they do have a rear licence plate captured on CCTV…..

Do we know exactly where he allegedly parked that night?? I was wondering if he reversed in as well???

And then I think if CCTV captured him on the way into 1112 King RD, then wouldn’t the same camera catch him on the way out???? Assuming it was a camera close to the house, and not a Highway or road camera … They have the 3 point turn on CCTV ….

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

(b) Disclosure of proceedings by participants other than witnesses.--Disclosure of matters occurring before the grand jury other than its deliberations and the vote of any juror may be made to the attorneys for the Commonwealth for use in the performance of their duties. The attorneys for the Commonwealth may with the approval of the supervising judge disclose matters occurring before the investigating grand jury including transcripts of testimony to local, State, other state or Federal law enforcement or investigating agencies to assist them in investigating crimes under their investigative jurisdiction. Otherwise a juror, attorney, interpreter, stenographer, operator of a recording device, or any typist who transcribes recorded testimony may disclose matters occurring before the grand jury only when so directed by the court. All such persons shall be sworn to secrecy, and shall be in contempt of court if they reveal any information which they are sworn to keep secret.

and I think you mean @PrairieWind IMO

Yes, this is exactly why I think it has something to do with BK that ties into this case somehow. States don't share secret GJ testimony just for the heck of it. It is a big deal in some way.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

I was wondering the exact same thing … I guess we won’t know till trial if they do have a rear licence plate captured on CCTV…..

Do we know exactly where he allegedly parked that night?? I was wondering if he reversed in as well???

And then I think if CCTV captured him on the way into 1112 King RD, then wouldn’t the same camera catch him on the way out???? Assuming it was a camera close to the house, and not a Highway or road camera … They have the 3 point turn on CCTV ….

IMO

The PCA gives 4:04 as the time the car went by the last time going one way (presumably before he parked), and 4:20 as the time the car left, so I do think the same camera captured him come and go. I don't even know if those CCTV cameras are good enough to capture a plate number, especially only lit with a street light, do you? The description LE put out was, "Police in Moscow, Idaho, are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate." To me, that does sound like there was one plate, but not readable. I could be misinterpreting that statement, though.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Predictions? and Court Dates

Thank you @DrQ . I agree with everything in your post except
BK will never plead guilty DP or not. Don't believe he values human life, not even his own.
(edit: That's not a political statement;. but agree BK seems off-center, feels nothing, empty)
IDK either if trial will be on TV but we are about to find out. IMO

June 9 Hearing GAG Order & Cameras in Courtroom
by Goncalves' lawyer and a media coalition of thirty news organizations

June 27 Hearing defense's motion to compel discovery evidence

July 21, 2023. Deadline
Death Penalty Notice of Intent to seek DUE 60 days from 5/22/23

October 2. TRIAL expected to last four-to-six-weeks trial
Six Weeks from October 02, 2023 is November 13, 2023.

Will there be a change of venue?

I think BK's Defense will definitely ask for a change of venue.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I know it seems like a stupid mistake. But then again, how else was he going to get there?

If he borrowed a car, that leaves a witness.
If he steals a car, he could get pulled over at any time, possibly with a bloody weapon and bloody clothing still in the car.
If he rents a car, he has to use his ID and Ins, etc.
If he Ubers, same problems exist.

How should he have gotten to the crime scene without taking his car?

What gets me is BK could have driven within a mile or 2 of the house and walked/hiked back. At that time of early morning and dressed all in black with a mask, he would have been much harder to identify on any cameras. We know he was athletic enough to do that with ease.

Not only did he drive there he circled 3 times and made a 3 point turn on the last pass to park behind the house. Obvious much? It makes me wonder what his real motivation was? Fame, Infamy, a dark game to be played? Fantasy? IDK

MOO

 

[TL4S]

What gets me is BK could have driven within a mile or 2 of the house and walked/hiked back. At that time of early morning and dressed all in black with a mask, he would have been much harder to identify on any cameras. We know he was athletic enough to do that with ease.

Not only did he drive there he circled 3 times and made a 3 point turn on the last pass to park behind the house. Obvious much? It makes me wonder what his real motivation was? Fame, Infamy, a dark game to be played? Fantasy? IDK

MOO

It's a good question. No matter what he did, his vehicle would have had to sit somewhere, and it would have sat there longer if he'd needed to walk back and forth any distance. If you think about it, he did massive damage in a relatively small amount of time, and I bet that was his plan. So he'd want to get out of there quickly. For all his planning, maybe he missed that the neighbor's house had a camera. I like to think that was one of his mistakes.

 

[TL4S]

I do not have much knowledge of CCTV or any other such devices, but I have followed at least two other cases that involved footage of vehicles captured on surveillance camera, and never was a license plate known. If a camera is pointed straight towards the road, then I'm wondering if it's limited to capturing only the side of a car as it goes by. Or maybe the resolution isn't good enough to make out a plate, or it's a blur due to the vehicle moving at the time of capture. I would wager that BK knew this about the cameras he would drive past. LE canvassed the entire town and beyond, so even if he parked a distance away and walked, I think eventually the white elantra would still be suspect. Probably not as quickly or surely, though. I also think for anyone with some knowledge of crime, who plans to carry out a crime, they also might consider that walking would leave a scent trail for search dogs. JMO.

I don't mean to give BK too much credit. Maybe it all was a thoughtless process driven solely by homicidal urges. I just happen to think the entire planning process was just as motivating to him as the murders themselves. JMO.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Off topic but I wonder if anyone has written a book or researched the aftermath of a serial killer’s actions on their families? How do they cope? Do they abandon or support their child? Do they move? Change their names? Contact the relatives of their victims? Do they get divorced? Do they blame themselves? Do they feel guilty? Probably exists but I am unaware but I’m sure this group can point me in the right direction. Just curious.

@I'm Nobody gave you a good list!!! Here's another one to add to it:

A Father's Story by Lionel Dahmer

I haven't had the opportunity to read it yet, so can't really recommend, but it's out there.

 

[Megnut]

IMO - I’m interested in this too & also…… why drive his car to & from the crime scene? Just these two mistakes seem ridiculously stupid. MOO

I know … it just doesn’t make sense …. Most WSer’s could most likely plan a better murder scenario …. Not that we could go through with it … IMO

How did he not know there was CCTV that would capture his car, if he, as alleged, had been there so many times to case the house prior???

It just seems like such a fail in ”Murder 101”…. IMO

Wonder if he was more interested in the psychological perspective of a killer than the mechanics of a murder. I’ve not heard that he was a true crime fan. Perhaps not having a license plate on the front of the car made him think it wouldn’t be identified? JMO

I love this post. It's exactly how we need to think about all of it, imo, because we can question a lot of what he did that day, but when it comes down to it, there were certain things he was willing to risk, out of necessity, because his motivation to commit a crime was more powerful than his fear of getting caught. JMO.

We can also question the scope of his understanding of digital trails (wifi, bluetooth, handshakes, surveillance, cell pings, etc.), but he had an educational background that at least gave him a better than average knowledge of these things, imo. I can't dismiss that.

When he left that early morning, he likely knew somewhere along the line he would be detected. Maybe he thought he'd outsmarted the system, though, because of his knowledge. Maybe that was part of the thrill for him, IDK. But that drive to commit a crime ended up overriding the whole process and he screwed up. JMO.

I think he took measures only to make sure he could commit his intended crime (IMO one murder). He wasn't concerned (or was less concerned) about being caught. He didn't want interference --

I think this is his chosen career path and he's reveling in the aftermath.

Jmo

 

[SLouTh]

I think he took measures only to make sure he could commit his intended crime (IMO one murder). He wasn't concerned (or was less concerned) about being caught. He didn't want interference --

I think this is his chosen career path and he's reveling in the aftermath.

Jmo

One murder??? As in, one big multi murder???

Or it was supposed to be just one murder, who he allegedly targeted, and the rest of the victims were collateral damage???
And once the killer was there, and murdered one person, he perhaps lost control, after the first one??

Which ever way is horrendous ….
IMO

 

[jepop]

What really gets me is that as far as we know, LE doesn't have any captures of the rear plate, either. Do we even know if he had plates on the car at all that morning? He would have risked getting pulled over if he took the rear plate off, but then again, in his mind, what was the bigger risk...a cop pulling him over for no plates, or his plate getting captured on camera? Could he have stopped somewhere to take it off before the crime, and then put it back on again after he'd left Moscow?

RBBM: I think the section of PCA regarding Indian Hills Drive and Styner Avenue mentions that SV1 appeared to have only one number plate or a missing front number plate. Not exact wording and can't re-look now but the reference is infering that footage revealed only one plate (but not readable), IMO. But might want to check the wording. MOO

ETA: checked anyway! pp5-6. Open to interpretation I guess...

"A review of camera footage indicated that a white sedan, hereafter "Suspect Vehicle 1", was observed traveling westbound in the 700 block of Indian Hills Drive in Moscow at approximately 3:26a.m and westbound on Styner Avenue at Idaho State Highway 95 inMoscow at approximately 3:28 a.m. On this video, it appeared Suspect Vehicle 1 was not displaying a front license plate"

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think he took measures only to make sure he could commit his intended crime (IMO one murder). He wasn't concerned (or was less concerned) about being caught. He didn't want interference --

I think this is his chosen career path and he's reveling in the aftermath.

Jmo

I suspect more likely his 'career path' is that he would be professionally assisting or standing aside in close observation, possibly inputting shrewd asides, a situation he caused. In plain sight as it were. I once read up about one dynamic of how it is when someone takes someone else's life, they are enmeshed forever and it can be a way of staking a claim in a person's life for all of eternity (in their delusional sick mind but also sadly, from the point of view of the victim's families and loved ones, the murderer is forever entwined in the life story of the deceased).

I wonder how serious his application to work for law enforcement was? He seems like a single minded person, <modsnip - diagnosing> and I wonder if he had set his mind to that career, how much of an impact not being accepted could have and if he went about being involved in law enforcement in a very alternate fashion. MOO just pondering and speculating.

 

[jepop]

The PCA gives 4:04 as the time the car went by the last time going one way (presumably before he parked), and 4:20 as the time the car left, so I do think the same camera captured him come and go. I don't even know if those CCTV cameras are good enough to capture a plate number, especially only lit with a street light, do you? The description LE put out was, "Police in Moscow, Idaho, are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate." To me, that does sound like there was one plate, but not readable. I could be misinterpreting that statement, though.

I'd assume yes, the plate was unreadable. What else could it be? Not sure there's much room for misinterpretation here. If they'd had clear enough footage to capture the plate number, - and assuming it was defendant's- BK would have been arrested far sooner IMO and that would have been in the PCA. MOO
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Just Bouncing off on more general note:
IMOO, the quality of the footage of SV1 (Queen St, Walenta Ave, Styner, Indian Hills Drive and possibly other local streets not included in PCA) is what it is. I think the State has evidence to prove that all those captures are the same vehicle (SV1). Unless there's been further narrowing down/enhancement since the PCA, SV1 might be described as a 2011-2016 white Hyundi Elantra which is likely missing a front number plate. One of the State's job at trial, IMO, will be to show that SV1 can very reasonably be inferred to be one and the same with the 2014-2015 white hyundi Elantra captured in footage from Pullman, as per PCA. To my mind, there is already sufficient evidence, through phone pings, to show that the 2014-2015 elantra is BK's vehicle. MOO