4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #82

[jepop]

IMO, it points towards another possible suspect? Not a very strong suspect, but LE should have investigated. The defence could try and use it.

Yes, and whose to say LE did not look into this incident, or re-look at it, whilst investigating the King Road murders. All that would be under gag, and fall under Investigative procedure. One thing I feel optimistic about is that this crime (the murders) was investigated from all possible angles. MOO

Edited clarity

 

[NCWatcher]

I agree it's not 100% clear if the Admitted Student Visits that can be reimbursed are for both undergrads and grad students, but I posted about it because it's a possibility specific to WSU that exists, and parents would be equally welcome to join grad students as undergrads, IMO. We don't know if BK would have attended something like this with his father.

There are more undergrads than grads in most schools, so it makes sense that a lot of material can be geared towards the underclass students, without excluding grads.

It doesn't seem there are many details on their website, maybe there is a catalog just for the grad schools that has more detail. It's likely the 5 events (Feb - April) are intended to capture rolling admissions to all programs with April as the final option, which BK could have made it to if he applied early enough and was on spring break from DeSales. JMO

I'm glad you posted the info. I'm not sure I would have thought about looking. I'd just think grad depts would do their own (mostly unreimbursed and not mandatory in my experience at state schools) post-acceptance visits. But my grad area required pre-acceptance interviews. Plenty of free food while there but otherwise travel and lodging costs were on the applicant. Some were very much "cattle calls." Others were not and involved meetings with faculty and separate meetings with grad students. So both sides could evaluate the "match."

The Admitted Student Visits discussed can yield $1000 for tuition later on but that may or may not cover the cost of flying across the country and staying in a hotel for a weekend (a weekend when lots of other incoming students [& perhaps parents] are in town.) I'm also not sure how the described sessions would meet a grad student's needs. Meeting "current students" would help only if they were students in the PhD. area as meeting English or Biology grad students really won't help incoming CJ students, at least not IMO. And to get the $1000 a student has to attend 5 sessions.
JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you think MG is the only local restaurant with vegan options suspect BK patronized? I guess I’m not & I remain unsure if he ever was a MG customer — there are several places in Moscow & Pullman my vegan friends patronize. MG had a whole lot of non-local harassment because two of the victims worked there. I hope we learn more as more definitive info about BK’s movements during his time here as it becomes available. MOO

I don’t know if he’d been to MG previously or not, but I’m pretty comfortable that MG actually reviewed their records pretty carefully, as they said they did, before making the statement. MOO. Of course, if he used cash …

FWIW, according to business owners I know in town, cash purchases are uncommon. My better half is the only person I know who regularly carries paper money anymore — LOL.

Just a reminder for all: local businesses really went the extra mile to help LE, MOO, something I think sometimes gets lost in the bigger horrific picture. At least one instance of speculation about KG’s alleged stalker rumor was able to be tracked down, investigated, and ruled out due to efforts of local unnamed businesses & employees:

“Using tips and leads, investigators have identified an incident involving Kaylee at a local business, which may have been the stalker reference she made to friends and family. In mid-October, two males were seen inside a local business; they parted ways, and one male appeared to follow Kaylee inside the business and as she exited to walk toward her car. The male turned away, and it did not appear he made any contact with her. Detectives contacted both males and learned the two were attempting to meet women at the business, this was corroborated through additional investigation. Based on available information, detectives believe this was an isolated incident and not an ongoing pattern of stalking. No evidence suggests the two males were involved in the murders.”

Source: 12/5/2022 MPD Press Release

Also remember it was another local business employee who found surveillance video of a suspicious white vehicle that was collected by MPD on 12/13/22:
Idaho murders: Cops take hours of video from gas station after clerk spots white car on night of stabbings

And, of course, many other local businesses (& residents, property owners, etc) were just as cooperative if more quiet about it; some have also been subjected to seemingly endless online harassment, rumors, & crazy conspiracy theories. I personally know of several businesses that voluntarily reviewed their own surveillance videos & provided them to LE with no warrant necessary even though they spotted nothing suspicious.

All MOO & just filling in some older details for folks’ timelines that may have understandably been forgotten in the past several months that were quite consequential.

I didn't suggest that MG was the only place to get vegan meals and also said that MG was in no way responsible for BK's actions.

 

[Nila Aella]

Still curious about these two entries in the case summary that have not made it to the cases of interest page: What kind of Order would Judge J Judge need to provide on January 6 that Judge MM couldn't?




And this one:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-053123.pdf

MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Still curious about these two entries in the case summary that have not made it to the cases of interest page: What kind of Order would Judge J Judge need to provide on January 6 that Judge MM couldn't?


View attachment 425867

And this one:

View attachment 425868

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-053123.pdf

MOO

I remember JJJ had signed something early in the case, and wondering who he was. Maybe the 1/6/23 date is referring to:

• 01/04/2023 Second Amended Order Governing Courthouse and Courtroom Conduct

And I know the date is way different, but he also signed:

• 04/24/2023 Order Appointing Special Assistant Attorneys General

His name has popped up at different times in certain documents.

ETA: Judge Marshall is a Magistrate Judge, and Judge Judge is an Administrative District Judge.

 

[sleepysleuth]

I was just thinking about whether or not BK travelled to the area prior to moving and it made me wonder - is it possible that obtaining that info is why his parents were called in to testify before the grand jury?

All of the articles about the grand jury very specifically noted that they couldn’t inquire about crimes in Idaho, but that they could share any information WITH Idaho.

So let’s say they call the parents in to ask about Dana Smithers, or any other case the grand jury was investigating - perhaps they knew that he likely wasn’t involved in those matters, but this would be a way they could get his parents under oath to testify to his whereabouts leading up to the murders.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[NCWatcher]

I was just thinking about whether or not BK travelled to the area prior to moving and it made me wonder - is it possible that obtaining that info is why his parents were called in to testify before the grand jury?

All of the articles about the grand jury very specifically noted that they couldn’t inquire about crimes in Idaho, but that they could share any information WITH Idaho.

So let’s say they call the parents in to ask about Dana Smithers, or any other case the grand jury was investigating - perhaps they knew that he likely wasn’t involved in those matters, but this would be a way they could get his parents under oath to testify to his whereabouts leading up to the murders.

Anyway, just a thought.

I guess you could be right but it sounds awfully shady. (Not that shady things don't happen. We all know they do.) But if BK did travel to the WA area and part of the reason was ostensibly to visit the CJ Dept in late May (after school was out in ID? Hmm), wouldn't LE just ask those folks when he was there? Without PA having to set up a potentially illegal but definitely unethical GJ situation?

Since we don't know, a number of different and creative ideas about the PA GJ have been floated. Many involve suggestions of how calling the parents to testify was really to help the Idaho investigation, not to investigate a PA crime. I don't know why they were called but I really hope it wasn't just in service of Idaho. IF there is no independent evidence in the possession of ID LE that places BK in WA/ID in late May 2022 (no car stops, no one identified who claimed to interact with him, no sightings, no unsolved crimes with his "fingerprints") exactly why do we care anyway? I must be missing something.
JMO

 

[TL4S]

I was just thinking about whether or not BK travelled to the area prior to moving and it made me wonder - is it possible that obtaining that info is why his parents were called in to testify before the grand jury?

All of the articles about the grand jury very specifically noted that they couldn’t inquire about crimes in Idaho, but that they could share any information WITH Idaho.

So let’s say they call the parents in to ask about Dana Smithers, or any other case the grand jury was investigating - perhaps they knew that he likely wasn’t involved in those matters, but this would be a way they could get his parents under oath to testify to his whereabouts leading up to the murders.

Anyway, just a thought.

This is sort of what I think too. His whereabouts and activities leading up to his applying to WSU, all the way through his arrival in Pullman, should be investigated, imo. I wonder if there was criminal activity happening in PA, like stalking, perhaps, which BK is a suspect, but which would also be helpful in showing patterned behavior in the ID case.

 

[NyxNY]

@Bogbacal2 What could be the reasoning behind keeping Ethan‘s vehicle and his brothers vehicle? Would it be that these were the last of the vehicles to be processed/examined or could there be another reason?

...and Ethan's golf clubs. They held on to those longer as well. I've always wondered why.

p.s. I know I botched the replying to a closed thread thing. Apologies

 

[arielilane]

As the days narrow on the window the prosecution has to make a decision in the #idaho4 case as to whether they will put the Death Penalty on the table for #bryankohberger, it's important to understand how the victim families feel. #xanakernodle's mom says no to the Death Penalty. The prosecution will consider each view. #Idaho #XANA https://newsweek.com/university-idaho-murders-cara-kernodle-death-penalty-stance-bryan-kohberger-1777044

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664268736688443393

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I guess you could be right but it sounds awfully shady. (Not that shady things don't happen. We all know they do.) But if BK did travel to the WA area and part of the reason was ostensibly to visit the CJ Dept in late May (after school was out in ID? Hmm), wouldn't LE just ask those folks when he was there? Without PA having to set up a potentially illegal but definitely unethical GJ situation?

Since we don't know, a number of different and creative ideas about the PA GJ have been floated. Many involve suggestions of how calling the parents to testify was really to help the Idaho investigation, not to investigate a PA crime. I don't know why they were called but I really hope it wasn't just in service of Idaho. IF there is no independent evidence in the possession of ID LE that places BK in WA/ID in late May 2022 (no car stops, no one identified who claimed to interact with him, no sightings, no unsolved crimes with his "fingerprints") exactly why do we care anyway? I must be missing something.
JMO

Yes, I think there might be a few state and US constitutional issues and legal violations for calling an investigative GJ together to violate civil rights. This would be both morally and legally reprehensible behavior. Also, BK's parents had counsel at the hearing, so I'm sure they'd have smelled this a mile away. We should all be outraged at the thought that this would be ever be done imo. I'm sure it was not done since there are other legal avenues available to ID. Violating civil rights, using a GJ like a Star Chamber, and extracting testimony under false pretenses shouldn't be on their to-do list, and even without the laws to keep us in check, this would be a dent in anyone's decency and integrity.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

duplicate

 

[Wallendo]

Although multiple articles have stated that PA Grand Jury information can be shared, several articles have pointed out that that can only be done by court order.

I also doubt that the parents' grand jury testimony would be helpful in Idaho. There are easy ways that the prosecution could determine when BK was in the Washington/Idaho area (cell records, credit/debit card statements, WSU records).

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Although multiple articles have stated that PA Grand Jury information can be shared, several articles have pointed out that that can only be done by court order.

I also doubt that the parents' grand jury testimony would be helpful in Idaho. There are easy ways that the prosecution could determine when BK was in the Washington/Idaho area (cell records, credit/debit card statements, WSU records).

Exactly right, and it would be immediately obvious from court record that this was a sham. Sharing can only be done by court order, at the request of the attorneys -- all of whom are on record, all of whom must follow the law or be fired/disbarred/face legal ramifications/etc. So the idea that two states would collude to dupe people is absurd and completely unnecessary.

That said, if I were the prosecution and defense in ID, I'd want to review the testimony, not for dubious information deviously obtained, but to see how the parents testified, their demeanor, style, etc. I'd use it to help plan my tack with them.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

It is incumbent on the Prosecutor, imo, to go for first degree in this case, as there are suggestions it could be. The defense can try to claim that there was no intent, but to make the jury believe them, they will have counter the active arguments put forward by witnesses for the State. I've...

www.websleuths.com

Bringing post forward from last thread about possibility BK put his phone in airplane mode so he would still have GPS capabilities when he left Pullman before the murders or not, to add:

Yes, he probably knew where he was going (how to get to Moscow from going there many times before) and so wouldn't need directions necessarily for that.

However, IMO, I still think he kept GPS enabled for one or more of the following reasons:

(a) So he could have a continuous GPS record of his entire route that night, all his comings and goings, to save for later and to be able to map and go back to anywhere along his route for several reasons (e.g., to return to a spot on a back road where he stashed evidence, to have as a record for posterity, to make sure he went a different way after leaving the scene and going back to WA, etc.). Cristhian Rivera did something like this (used GPS maps) to record where he left the body of Mollie Tibbetts after murdering her, in a cornfield he wouldn't have remembered how to get back to, and used his GPS coordinates record to lead LE to her remains after he was caught.

(b) If he took a slightly different route that night than other nights, on purpose, to be able to guide himself in the dark on roads he was unfamiliar with and not go predictably the way he had gone before (e.g., to avoid cameras he knew of on his usual route, to be able to see alternate routes in and out of town &/or the King Rd or Indian Hills neighborhood, etc.).

(c) To scope out other roads and routes and intersections to take on his way home as he passed them on his way to Moscow, and be sure he knew the lay of the land and didn't get lost (e.g., he could have had a Plan A and B, but not C or D fallbacks in case he was being chased or was a nervous driver, insecure about driving in new terrain, etc.)

(d) To have a locational security blanket from home to crime scene (e.g., in case he spotted LE or other unexpected activity on his planned route, he would know of alternate routes, where to circumvent a road closure, etc.).

Also, it's a rural wooded area with no streetlights or businesses lit up in the night between his home and Moscow AFAIK, and although he drove it before, he may not have been familiar with all the twists and turns and wanted to see where he was at all times in real time.

He had only been living in the area for 3 months or so, and so didn't know it like the back of his hand, IMO.

And maybe he was especially nervous that night and didn't want to rely on following his nose to (and from) the scene.

Back to the security blanket aspect, I know people around his age who are not skilled at navigating, even in areas they have driven before, and they don't feel comfortable driving anywhere without their GPS on.

MOO and JME

 

[Boxer]

There is no indication that the family has the kind of money to provide an apartment for BK. And no indication that he earned enough to do so. It's also worth remembering that some of his work was done during the intense phase of COVID lockdown, so there was not much incentive to get an apartment alone when no one was going out much, if at all. BK was doing grad work online so it's not that he needed close access for classes.

COVID measures started spring 2020.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree it's not 100% clear if the Admitted Student Visits that can be reimbursed are for both undergrads and grad students, but I posted about it because it's a possibility specific to WSU that exists, and parents would be equally welcome to join grad students as undergrads, IMO. We don't know if BK would have attended something like this with his father.

There are more undergrads than grads in most schools, so it makes sense that a lot of material can be geared towards the underclass students, without excluding grads.

It doesn't seem there are many details on their website, maybe there is a catalog just for the grad schools that has more detail. It's likely the 5 events (Feb - April) are intended to capture rolling admissions to all programs with April as the final option, which BK could have made it to if he applied early enough and was on spring break from DeSales. JMO

I think the page would say if there was reimbursement. I believe every college has pre-semester orientation and activities for incoming students, and large public universities usually have quite a few events.

But if public universities are reimbursing airfare and hotels for these visits, I would be very very surprised and have never heard of it. Esp for undergrads.

There is no catalog just for grad students that I know of, but you can click through the graduate materials from the regular catalog and registrar's deadlines (including the application, if you want to sign up to see it). Usually, grad student orientation is provided by the department the week before classes start and there's usually some kind of department wide grad function soon after school starts, IME. The pages posted here appear to be part of their annual online information and not in the catalog, anyway. Here's the catalog:

The Washington State University Pullman Catalog

catalog.wsu.edu

And here it is in pdf:

https://registrar.wsu.edu/media/j11p1nao/current-wsu-catalog.pdf

Graduate school info starts on p. 26. The list of cooperative courses with U of I (discussed recently here) is on p. 37 and AFAICT, there are no CJ courses on it. Criminal Justice program and courses starts on p. 143.

imo

 

[Balthazar]

I'm glad you posted the info. I'm not sure I would have thought about looking. I'd just think grad depts would do their own (mostly unreimbursed and not mandatory in my experience at state schools) post-acceptance visits. But my grad area required pre-acceptance interviews. Plenty of free food while there but otherwise travel and lodging costs were on the applicant. Some were very much "cattle calls." Others were not and involved meetings with faculty and separate meetings with grad students. So both sides could evaluate the "match."

The Admitted Student Visits discussed can yield $1000 for tuition later on but that may or may not cover the cost of flying across the country and staying in a hotel for a weekend (a weekend when lots of other incoming students [& perhaps parents] are in town.) I'm also not sure how the described sessions would meet a grad student's needs. Meeting "current students" would help only if they were students in the PhD. area as meeting English or Biology grad students really won't help incoming CJ students, at least not IMO. And to get the $1000 a student has to attend 5 sessions.
JMO

In my experience, these meetings are ONLY within your school. Just to be clear, you might be going to Washington State University, but your school would be School of Business or School of Criminology or School of Computer Science, etc. You are only meeting with faculty, advisors and other grad students in your school - NEVER for the entire university or other schools.

 

[Balthazar]

I was just thinking about whether or not BK travelled to the area prior to moving and it made me wonder - is it possible that obtaining that info is why his parents were called in to testify before the grand jury?

All of the articles about the grand jury very specifically noted that they couldn’t inquire about crimes in Idaho, but that they could share any information WITH Idaho.

So let’s say they call the parents in to ask about Dana Smithers, or any other case the grand jury was investigating - perhaps they knew that he likely wasn’t involved in those matters, but this would be a way they could get his parents under oath to testify to his whereabouts leading up to the murders.

Anyway, just a thought.

I would think that it would be very easy to get a record of when BK was in Idaho via the School of Criminology of WSU, also from his apartment rental records, once he moved there. His school is going to know when he was there for interviews, if he came to any pre-PhD meetings and such. They would know when he reported to the school to start his PhD program and what days he was on campus.

 

[TL4S]

Yes, I think there might be a few state and US constitutional issues and legal violations for calling an investigative GJ together to violate civil rights. This would be both morally and legally reprehensible behavior. Also, BK's parents had counsel at the hearing, so I'm sure they'd have smelled this a mile away. We should all be outraged at the thought that this would be ever be done imo. I'm sure it was not done since there are other legal avenues available to ID. Violating civil rights, using a GJ like a Star Chamber, and extracting testimony under false pretenses shouldn't be on their to-do list, and even without the laws to keep us in check, this would be a dent in anyone's decency and integrity.

I don't think the PA GJ was set up to help the ID case, at all. From my understanding, the only real things we know is that BK's parents had to testify, and that the information could be shared with ID. With me not having a strong understanding of legal matters, I'm not sure I fully have this right, but from what I've been reading here, the fact that sharing with ID was granted by the court has to mean something. Whatever BK's parents had to testify to has to pertain to a PA crime, and it has to pertain to BK, or why would the sharing with ID be granted? If their testimonies had absolutely nothing to do with BK, would ID attorneys have rights to his parents' testimonies on an unrelated case in PA? Sorry for all the question...