Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
I remember it being discussed on previous threads, early on.

When I first started following this case quite some time ago, it was before I had signed up as a forum member, before the sleuth had discovered the 'Remakel' advert and before the inquests and podcasts.

I read up all the prior threads right from the beginning. I do recall that someone using a male name had sent a message or posted via FB to say that Marion was alive and didn't want to be contacted. I can't recall what the name was but Sally and the team will know right?
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The name was Clark Hunter, Sally posted on Facebook in 2013
 
Estelle said:
Does anyone remember a Facebook post that Sally received which claimed that Sally was still alive in Australia and wanted nothing to do with her family or something like that. IIRC it was someone using the name, "Clive"? I have always thought that RB using a fake FB profile sent that to Sally. Does anyone remember it?
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Clark Hunter in about 2013. Edit- Oops sorry must’ve hit post the same time as person above me.
 
Annalize said:
Imagine a tall pilot in his full uniform travelling to Wollongbar to pick up tea chests, from a garage. Did he land a plane in the driveway, or perhaps a helicopter in the front yard? Even if he was a tall pilot, I'm fairly sure he would be wearing casual clothes. I think the only tall thing about this ..it is a fabricated tall tale, a hallmark of the fraudster, AKA.
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The only way I could possibly consider any of this truth was that if a pilot friend of the daughter from her work helped her move something that was in fact Marions.

He seems to be reliant on mens rea- the act is not guilty unless the mind is also guilty. He picks a truth. It was not him as it was actually ”Frederick de Hedervary” who did something wrong, if you know what I mean. Like “technically” he is himself and his aliases are characters he’s not responsible for so he can lie easily as he’s disassociated from any responsibility.
 
I firmly believe the bank withdrawals were Marion due to the cancellation of the RACQ policy at around the same time. It’s been discussed previously and at one of the tranches but it’s believed you needed to attend a branch to cancel in 1997. I find it highly unlikely that RB or anyone else would’ve known enough about this policy to be able to cancel it (remember SL had the car and was going to potentially sell it so would’ve had the rego papers as they’re needed for the sale). A scammer wouldn’t get enough benefit from cancelling this sort of policy mid way though a policy term to bother with the risk IMO, you’d be lucky to get any money back after they take fees.

I think on balance of probabilities she was alerted to the fact she’d been swindled after he’d gotten the money in increments.

IMO JMO
 
Estelle said:
Does anyone remember a Facebook post that Sally received which claimed that Sally was still alive in Australia and wanted nothing to do with her family or something like that. IIRC it was someone using the name, "Clive"? I have always thought that RB using a fake FB profile sent that to Sally. Does anyone remember it?
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Clark Hunter. I was only looking at my notes (from the beginning) yesterday and saw that and wondered if any more had been done on that.
There were 2 messages:
Natalia is alive but you‘ll never see her again.
It was not her intention to disappear she was forced.
(on questioning said that he no longer knew where she was)
 
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Mjjj14 said:
I firmly believe the bank withdrawals were Marion due to the cancellation of the RACQ policy at around the same time. It’s been discussed previously and at one of the tranches but it’s believed you needed to attend a branch to cancel in 1997. I find it highly unlikely that RB or anyone else would’ve known enough about this policy to be able to cancel it (remember SL had the car and was going to potentially sell it so would’ve had the rego papers as they’re needed for the sale). A scammer wouldn’t get enough benefit from cancelling this sort of policy mid way though a policy term to bother with the risk IMO, you’d be lucky to get any money back after they take fees.

I think on balance of probabilities she was alerted to the fact she’d been swindled after he’d gotten the money in increments.

IMO JMO
Click to expand...
Here’s something to consider that I posted at the time from the perspective of being an RACQ member in 1997. IMO the use of the word « policy » is a misspeak which led many down the track of thinking it was a car insurance policy, but RACQ did not offer insurance policies at that time (they do now). IMO in 1997 it was a membership for road side assistance. This post here goes on to explain more about its cancellation and any potential refund
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
The thing is, from his innocent children's point of view (which they were born into this madness, so they were innocent), he had been working all that time.

He'd been scurrying back and forth hither and thither, travelling overseas and spinning yarns about antiques and rare coins. He'd been man about town, handling money investments, visiting banks, looking at properties, checking his rental mailboxes and his security deposit boxes, arranging lots of moving house, buying vehicles. Coming and going like quite the international businessman. Socialising, schmoozing, hanging out in street cafes smoking cigars, debating, discussing, considering all manner of intellectual matters and following share prices index in the newspaper every day or some type of phoney cover.

They may not have been minted like some of the other kids at school but sure as heck they didn't go hungry or want for shoes, need social housing, or live in an urban flat with no garden. I bet DdH played a Stepford Wife version of homemaker and housekeeper and provider.

I'll also bet there was plenty of times the mask slipped and he was a straight up violent abuser and they heard and saw unspeakable things and were subjected to flashes of extreme cruelty.

I was brought up like this by one of these people so I know what I'm talking about.

JMO MOO
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Your commentary on this case this week and weekend has been so insightful and bang on @Observe_dont_Absorb
 
Estelle said:
I agree that MB would have told Sally on that last call if she was suspicious of RB. IMO RB told MB that he had to do urgent business somewhere and that he would be back as he told others. She must have sounded OK on the phone to Sally otherwise Sally would have been suspicious. Was she encouraged to make that call by someone who had befriended her who could have been RB's partner in crime and RB had told MB that he would take her to Amsterdam. Perhaps they went on a boat and MB's body was thrown overboard? Not sure if he could get away with it on a ferry. I really don't think that MB had any inkling that RB was going to withdraw her money at that stage and she was looking forward to the Amsterdam trip and I don't think she would have come back so soon to withdraw her own money. She seemed to have enough for her travels with her.
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Agree @Estelle. I could not see Marion writing "Luxembourg housewife" on an arrival card if she had doubts about RB. IMO she either returned still under his influence or did not return and someone else used her passport. I'd always wondered about passport fraud, an Australian passport would have been extremely valuable and there were no electronic passports back then, everything was manual. We are also assuming he returned on 31 July, but this could just have been his passport (or one of them, as he had multiple IDs in the 1990s).

Does anyone know if Sally has been able to submit her DNA to any overseas authorities? Am sure this has been discussed before and Sally has been prevented from being able to do this due to Marion not having been declared deceased, is this right? Wonder if there's anyway she could get her DNA checked in Netherlands?
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gymtonic said:
Here’s something to consider that I posted at the time from the perspective of being an RACQ member in 1997. IMO the use of the word « policy » is a misspeak which led many down the track of thinking it was a car insurance policy, but RACQ did not offer insurance policies at that time (they do now). IMO in 1997 it was a membership for road side assistance. This post here goes on to explain more about its cancellation and any potential refund
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14
Click to expand...
Hey all, my apologies for misleading and especially @Mjjj14 . I am correcting myself here based on another more lengthy post I made at the time! RACQ DID offer car insurance in 1997…
My other thoughts here clarify this issue…
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11
 
Mjjj14 said:
I firmly believe the bank withdrawals were Marion due to the cancellation of the RACQ policy at around the same time. It’s been discussed previously and at one of the tranches but it’s believed you needed to attend a branch to cancel in 1997. I find it highly unlikely that RB or anyone else would’ve known enough about this policy to be able to cancel it (remember SL had the car and was going to potentially sell it so would’ve had the rego papers as they’re needed for the sale). A scammer wouldn’t get enough benefit from cancelling this sort of policy mid way though a policy term to bother with the risk IMO, you’d be lucky to get any money back after they take fees.

I think on balance of probabilities she was alerted to the fact she’d been swindled after he’d gotten the money in increments.

IMO JMO
Click to expand...
However, the internet was available then so could she have had someone at the hotel cancel it for her once she gave the person in charge the details or even sent a letter? When was it cancelled? Also she may have had the car documents with her and RB got hold of them too. What date was it cancelled?
 

Sinister new twist in 25-year-old cold case of missing Australian mother Marion Barter who was never heard of again after running out of coins during chat to her daughter in UK phone box​

1685925695706.png
Marion was reported missing on October 22, 1997, when she failed to contact her son Owen on his 23rd birthday

www.dailymail.co.uk

New twist in 25-year-old case of missing Australian mum Marion Barter

EXCLUSIVE: Marion Barter, 51, spoke to her daughter from a phone box in Tunbridge Wells saying she enjoyed UK so much she would defer her trip on the Orient Express.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

New twist in 25-year-old case of missing Australian mum Marion Barter

EXCLUSIVE: Marion Barter, 51, spoke to her daughter from a phone box in Tunbridge Wells saying she enjoyed UK so much she would defer her trip on the Orient Express.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

I think I'd forgotten this bit about Evelyn Reid and the champagne bottle.
The article says she noticed that the top had been tampered with.

I knew about the bottle but forgot why she was suspicious, apart from the fact that he gave it to her.

Maybe during their conversation he thought he may have let something slip...

I wish she still had that bottle.
 
I'd like to see a current photo of him clean shaven, without the beard.

He then might be more recognisable to people who have come across him in the past.

How about someone photoshopping his beard out :)
 
ruby925 said:
However, if Marion was returning because she had rumbled RB, her money was being stolen etc, I think she would have enlisted Sally's help at that point. So i believe that Marion was at that time still fully invested in RB and their new life. All MOO obvs
Click to expand...

Keeping in mind another reason she may not have reached out to her family is that she legally changed her name and would have to admit to it if others or herself involved the police, that could make her even more concerned about judgment from others, it is one thing to be taken for a ride by a con man, but to have to admit you had also gone along with something so "crazy" as changing your name to Florabell Remakel, that it could make you look foolish which could make you think twice about involving other people.
 
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