It depends on how willing she will have been to engage in that. If there is anything I'm sure it'll come up in the judges sentencing on Monday, but I'm not expecting anything to be honest.
GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32
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May72031
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In a statement to the BBC, Sir Duncan said: "I believe that the board was misled in December 2016 when it received a report on the outcome of the external, independent case reviews.
"We were told explicitly that there was no criminal activity pointing to any one individual, when in truth the investigating neonatologist had stated that she had not had the time to complete the necessary in-depth case reviews."
Lucy Letby: Hospital bosses were misled, former chair claims
NHS trust board was told there was 'no criminal activity pointing to any one individual', he says.www.bbc.com
The people who compiled the "external, independent case reviews" need to be asked questions as well.
She moved back in with her parents after her initial arrest (not that surprising given she no longer had an income), but it's weird IMO that her mother (apparently) said to arrest her not LL, And her parents have continued to support her every day in court (Disbelief? Denial? Guilt?)Theories then. About what would make her like this/do this. Initially I thought it was some kind of madness due to being in a secret relationship with a married man, obsession with his wife, lack of self esteem, wanting his attention. But as someone pointed out, she was already killing before he arrived at the hospital (unless she already knew him before?). Also what she did was so foul and extreme that it goes way beyond "bunny boiler" behaviour.
Reports say there was nothing unusual about her background. But I saw her Mother was a GP. That reminded me of the Doctor Foster programme. Dr Foster (a GP in the series) was very very busy working all the time, and caught up in her job, and not around so much for a growing child. GP's have very intense jobs, on call and work a lot. Presumably LL's Father also worked. Perhaps she was left to her own devices a lot and ended up in a little world of her own. Then also maybe the business of her feeling superior - her Mother was a Doctor, - she was "only" a nurse - maybe a chip on her shoulder at "not being good enough" (which I think one of her notes said). Why didn't she train to be a Doctor instead? Doctors often run in families - Mum or Dad was a Doctor, child trains to be a Doctor. Maybe she didn't make the grade academically. Maybe, despite her normal looking background, her parents were not so kind about her achievements, thought she was a bit of a dunce or something. Maybe she felt like a disappointment and had conflicted feelings of inadequacy and wanting to feel more powerful and important - like her Mother - the GP. Maybe she wanted to marry a Doctor - but he was unavailable and that also made her feel inadequate.
She didn't seem to break away from her parents as an adult either. Going on holiday with them regularly (not many over 18 year olds want to holiday with parents), they helped her buy a house. She didn't seem to have any adult relationships, it seems, until this alleged affair with the Doctor at the hospital. So she seemed a bit of a loner. A dark horse.
However none of this explains why she would turn to killing neonatal babies. Unless she had got pregnant and had an abortion secretly maybe, and had some kind of psychosis and couldn't handle working with all the babies (not making any excuses for her). And why would that need to be secret anyway? Girls do get pregnant and have abortions. Unless the married Doctor convinced her it couldn't happen and had to be secret or it could affect his children if it ever came out.
Someone earlier mentioned the two books by her bedside. 1) A Doctor's memoir about being dangerously ill after a miscarriage 2) A novel about a young woman who had an affair with a married man ("Never Greener" - I'm going to take a look at that!). Not exactly light or fun reading. An obsession with miscarriage, near death and affairs? Or secretly having gone through something like that herself.
Inside Lucy Letby’s bedroom where evil nurse red novels on bed with teddies
A CHILLING look inside Lucy Letby’s bedroom reveals the evil nurse read romance novels on her bed covered with teddy bears and wore a fluffy pink dressing gown. Letby, 33, was found guilty on…www.thesun.co.uk
All JMO MOO. And still doesn't really explain, whatever her state of mind and upbringing, how someone could use their medical knowledge to cause harm. And how she seemed perfectly normal and happy to her friends.
Unless she was just born like that - as some people are - with psycopathic tendencies.
Another thing - why did it only start in 2015? Presumably it was when she first started working on a neonatal unit. And what happened between 2017 and it coming to trial? What did she do, what was her behaviour during this time? If she was addicted to killing and had been removed from the neonatal unit - how did she not have this urge diverted elsewhere?
"If she was addicted to killing and had been removed from the neonatal unit - how did she not have this urge diverted elsewhere?"
Did LL crave her parents' attention and once back home with them had no desire to kill/destroy any more families (she didn't have the same access/excuse - but serial killers will generally find another outlet)
Police are also now investigating collapses/deaths before 2015...
iamshadow21
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It shocks people because we are conditioned to think of a Hammer Horror monster, Hitler screaming wild-eyed hate in Nuremberg, or a creepy man in a park in a grubby overcoat with a van as what people who are capable of bad things look like. Which fails to take into consideration the banality of evil, which is, bad people just look and act like people most of the time, and when they do bad things, it's often for the most banal of reasons. They look like people you see at the supermarket, pruning their rose bushes, reading a paper on the tube, or nursing you in hospital. It's a shock when it's brought home to us that people capable of violence are just normal looking humans who watch soaps and football, who pay their taxes and drive a Mazda, who go on holidays to slightly boring places and play pub trivia. They are, on the surface, just like others who never dream of hurting someone else, even at their worst moments. And that average appearance, for such people, is the best of camouflages.
MOO
WaxLyrical
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I don’t find anything strange about the house she bought. Generally, but not always, people who buy flats are doing so because they can’t afford a house. It was reported that her parents helped her get on the property ladder, so it makes sense why she could afford it. A quiet, safe area, in close proximity to the workplace, an idea purchase for someone in their mid 20s to be honest. Sounds like she’d need at least one spare room to put her mum and dad up in considering they lived far away.Anyway still wondering if there was something about her home life growing up. Reports say it was idyllic, middle class, leafy area. That doesn't allow for emotional abuse growing up. Overly harsh parenting perhaps. Emotional abuse isn't visible. What I find unusual as well is the type of house she lived in. Hardly the kind of place a young single woman would buy - more the type of place her parents would live in - a 70s semi in a family neighbourhood. Although they helped her buy the house, wouldn't a young single woman have chosen something like a city centre flat, more modern, with other young people around and a social life? She was surrounded by retired people or families with children. Not an ideal place to live for a young single woman.
So going back to the phrase of "Not good enough", Maybe she did have this feeling after her upbringing.
Lucy Letby, the ‘beige’ and ‘average’ nurse who turned into a baby killer
Her childhood seemed idyllic and she cried at reminders of her home life, but she was, the prosecutor said, ‘cruel and relentless’www.theguardian.com
I do however get a strange feeling about her childhood. The fact the dad was threatening the consultants and on first name terms with the CEO. The fact Letby was infatuated with a man in his 40s who she knew was out of reach. There’s a bit of a daddy issues vibe. The childish bedroom, the comfort items in court. Her “idolising” the nurses who cared for her when she was a baby and insisting throughout that she would follow the same career path, determined to work with children.
I feel certain that something has happened in childhood that triggered all this. Someone can’t have an “idyllic upbringing” and then just happen to be one of the worst serial killers in history. She’s experienced something or witnessed something terrible during her formative years in my opinion.
WaxLyrical
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Yes I’m aware. It was just a throwaway example of what a potential smoking gun in this case might have looked like.
ColourPurple
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Wow, I hadn't realised that on top of the fact that the consultants had to write a letter of apology to LL in February 2017, she was also due to go back to work on the NNU within the week, when the consultants had their meeting with the police in April 2017!
Faced with the threat of disciplinary action, the doctors sent Letby a carefully worded apology on 28 February 2017. Their letter, which has been seen by the Observer, reads: “Dear Lucy. The increased mortality on the neonatal unit and subsequent reviews and re-designation of the neonatal unit has been very stressful time for all staff and parents. We understand that it has been an exceptionally stressful time for you.
“We would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. As you will be aware, emotions have run high. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.”
Less than three months later, after weeks of anguished meetings about how to prevent Letby from returning to work, Brearey and his colleagues contacted Cheshire police.
It was that meeting, on 27 April 2017, that triggered one of the biggest and most complex murder investigations of recent times in Britain.
Brearey’s colleague Jayaram said he “could have punched the air” when the now-retired detective chief superintendent, Nigel Wenham, listened to the consultants and said that their concerns were “something that [the police] have to be involved with”.
Letby had been just six days from returning to work on the neonatal unit at this point. Instead, she never set foot on the ward again. The next time senior doctors would see her was when her picture appeared on the television news, after her arrest more than a year later, in July 2018.
DS Paul Hughes, who led the investigation, told the Observer the information provided by Brearey and his colleagues had been “the golden thread” for their inquiry. “They have been very brave in coming forward and they’ve put this ahead of their careers, in my view,” he said. “If it wasn’t for their ongoing determination, would there have been more [murders]? I don’t know. It’s difficult to answer or speculate on the future. But they’ve done well.”
www.theguardian.com
Faced with the threat of disciplinary action, the doctors sent Letby a carefully worded apology on 28 February 2017. Their letter, which has been seen by the Observer, reads: “Dear Lucy. The increased mortality on the neonatal unit and subsequent reviews and re-designation of the neonatal unit has been very stressful time for all staff and parents. We understand that it has been an exceptionally stressful time for you.
“We would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. As you will be aware, emotions have run high. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.”
Less than three months later, after weeks of anguished meetings about how to prevent Letby from returning to work, Brearey and his colleagues contacted Cheshire police.
It was that meeting, on 27 April 2017, that triggered one of the biggest and most complex murder investigations of recent times in Britain.
Brearey’s colleague Jayaram said he “could have punched the air” when the now-retired detective chief superintendent, Nigel Wenham, listened to the consultants and said that their concerns were “something that [the police] have to be involved with”.
Letby had been just six days from returning to work on the neonatal unit at this point. Instead, she never set foot on the ward again. The next time senior doctors would see her was when her picture appeared on the television news, after her arrest more than a year later, in July 2018.
DS Paul Hughes, who led the investigation, told the Observer the information provided by Brearey and his colleagues had been “the golden thread” for their inquiry. “They have been very brave in coming forward and they’ve put this ahead of their careers, in my view,” he said. “If it wasn’t for their ongoing determination, would there have been more [murders]? I don’t know. It’s difficult to answer or speculate on the future. But they’ve done well.”
‘Trust me, I’m a nurse’: Why wasn’t Lucy Letby stopped as months of murder went by?
It took almost two years for the police to be called in to investigate baby deaths at the Countess of Chester hospital. Now, after Letby’s conviction, a picture of ‘Kafkaesque’ obfuscation is emerging
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Observe_dont_Absorb
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Yes, I think it's that... the dissonance between how people perceive a 'monster' ought to be (ie the horror films) and how the reality in this case has been.
Having said that, I believe it was the police detective who declared her 'beige' in one word. I'm a little surprised by that as obviously we know she was deeply disturbed, writing post it notes, hoarding paperwork, and stalking parents. So she had her demonic side.
I would like to know what *all* her online searches were and what sort of things she did and movies she watched etc. Maybe that's the bit that's totally 'beige' like literally nothing weird or quirky to see here?
I know. It was a shocker.Wow, I hadn't realised that on top of the fact that the consultants had to write a letter of apology to LL in February 2017, she was also due to go back to work on the NNU within the week, when the consultants had their meeting with the police in April 2017!
Faced with the threat of disciplinary action, the doctors sent Letby a carefully worded apology on 28 February 2017. Their letter, which has been seen by the Observer, reads: “Dear Lucy. The increased mortality on the neonatal unit and subsequent reviews and re-designation of the neonatal unit has been very stressful time for all staff and parents. We understand that it has been an exceptionally stressful time for you.
“We would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. As you will be aware, emotions have run high. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.”
Less than three months later, after weeks of anguished meetings about how to prevent Letby from returning to work, Brearey and his colleagues contacted Cheshire police.
It was that meeting, on 27 April 2017, that triggered one of the biggest and most complex murder investigations of recent times in Britain.
Brearey’s colleague Jayaram said he “could have punched the air” when the now-retired detective chief superintendent, Nigel Wenham, listened to the consultants and said that their concerns were “something that [the police] have to be involved with”.
Letby had been just six days from returning to work on the neonatal unit at this point. Instead, she never set foot on the ward again. The next time senior doctors would see her was when her picture appeared on the television news, after her arrest more than a year later, in July 2018.
DS Paul Hughes, who led the investigation, told the Observer the information provided by Brearey and his colleagues had been “the golden thread” for their inquiry. “They have been very brave in coming forward and they’ve put this ahead of their careers, in my view,” he said. “If it wasn’t for their ongoing determination, would there have been more [murders]? I don’t know. It’s difficult to answer or speculate on the future. But they’ve done well.”
‘Trust me, I’m a nurse’: Why wasn’t Lucy Letby stopped as months of murder went by?
It took almost two years for the police to be called in to investigate baby deaths at the Countess of Chester hospital. Now, after Letby’s conviction, a picture of ‘Kafkaesque’ obfuscation is emerging
CS2C
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Did you also read the times article where it said they were going to offer her a transfer to Alder Hay and also fund a masters degree or higher nurse education for her due to her being bullied ?Wow, I hadn't realised that on top of the fact that the consultants had to write a letter of apology to LL in February 2017, she was also due to go back to work on the NNU within the week, when the consultants had their meeting with the police in April 2017!
Faced with the threat of disciplinary action, the doctors sent Letby a carefully worded apology on 28 February 2017. Their letter, which has been seen by the Observer, reads: “Dear Lucy. The increased mortality on the neonatal unit and subsequent reviews and re-designation of the neonatal unit has been very stressful time for all staff and parents. We understand that it has been an exceptionally stressful time for you.
“We would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. As you will be aware, emotions have run high. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.”
Less than three months later, after weeks of anguished meetings about how to prevent Letby from returning to work, Brearey and his colleagues contacted Cheshire police.
It was that meeting, on 27 April 2017, that triggered one of the biggest and most complex murder investigations of recent times in Britain.
Brearey’s colleague Jayaram said he “could have punched the air” when the now-retired detective chief superintendent, Nigel Wenham, listened to the consultants and said that their concerns were “something that [the police] have to be involved with”.
Letby had been just six days from returning to work on the neonatal unit at this point. Instead, she never set foot on the ward again. The next time senior doctors would see her was when her picture appeared on the television news, after her arrest more than a year later, in July 2018.
DS Paul Hughes, who led the investigation, told the Observer the information provided by Brearey and his colleagues had been “the golden thread” for their inquiry. “They have been very brave in coming forward and they’ve put this ahead of their careers, in my view,” he said. “If it wasn’t for their ongoing determination, would there have been more [murders]? I don’t know. It’s difficult to answer or speculate on the future. But they’ve done well.”
‘Trust me, I’m a nurse’: Why wasn’t Lucy Letby stopped as months of murder went by?
It took almost two years for the police to be called in to investigate baby deaths at the Countess of Chester hospital. Now, after Letby’s conviction, a picture of ‘Kafkaesque’ obfuscation is emerging
I couldn’t believe my eyes…
May72031
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But, shortly before she was removed from the neonatal unit, she "found" that a port was not fitted properly, or something, and queried whether that could cause air embolisms. So, she could have said she went home and Googled this after that event.
So, not a really a smoking gun. But just another bit of circumstantial evidence...
ColourPurple
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Unbelievable!. Dr Jayaram was told to make a face to face apology to LL too!
ColourPurple
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Shocking! I'm just catching up on all the articles now. I'll have a look for that one. (Argh forgot it would be behind a paywall)The absolute gall of her!
ETA that ties in with her having written Alder Hey or AH on a note where she mentioned mediation etc too.
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Tortoise
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So consultants met with police, and was she then immediately suspended or was her suspension when she was arrested?
edited
I got my answer
Letby had not yet been arrested and was still working at the hospital's risk and patient safety office. But Operation Hummingbird was in full swing and Dr Brearey was helping the police with their investigation.
Late one evening, he was going through some historic medical records when he discovered a blood test from 2015 for one of the babies on his unit. It recorded dangerous levels of insulin in the baby's bloodstream.
The significance of the test result had been missed at the time.
A few months later, Letby was finally arrested and suspended by the hospital. But three years had passed since Dr Brearey had first sounded the alarm.
edited
I got my answer
Letby had not yet been arrested and was still working at the hospital's risk and patient safety office. But Operation Hummingbird was in full swing and Dr Brearey was helping the police with their investigation.
Late one evening, he was going through some historic medical records when he discovered a blood test from 2015 for one of the babies on his unit. It recorded dangerous levels of insulin in the baby's bloodstream.
The significance of the test result had been missed at the time.
A few months later, Letby was finally arrested and suspended by the hospital. But three years had passed since Dr Brearey had first sounded the alarm.
Hospital bosses ignored months of doctors' warnings about Lucy Letby
Hospital bosses failed to investigate allegations and tried to silence doctors, BBC investigation finds.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Calls to force court appearances as Lucy Letby refuses to attend sentencing
Nurse convicted of killing seven babies is third murderer in recent times to avoid hearing
WaxLyrical
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I disagree. If she was found to have been Googling about air embolism, or insulin poisoning or whatever at the time she was committing these crimes or before, then I think that would have carried a lot of a weight for many many people looking at this case.
Why did she only start in 2015? What happened to trigger her? Was there a trigger? Or did she just get a God complex, the more experience she had.
Timeline of Lucy Letby's horrific crimes in full as killer nurse is convicted
The 33-year-old was found guilty of murdering seven babies and the attempted murder of six other infants in the neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospital
I did think that maybe there would be more on that front. It's possible though that she had a I-pad or something that she did her research on and she got rid of it?
Think it's being suggested now by the police that's it's likely she started earlier.. they are now looking at 4000 cases.Why did she only start in 2015?
Timeline of Lucy Letby's horrific crimes in full as killer nurse is convicted
The 33-year-old was found guilty of murdering seven babies and the attempted murder of six other infants in the neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospitalwww.dailypost.co.uk
Dotta
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Thanks for this info.Wow, I hadn't realised that on top of the fact that the consultants had to write a letter of apology to LL in February 2017, she was also due to go back to work on the NNU within the week, when the consultants had their meeting with the police in April 2017!
Faced with the threat of disciplinary action, the doctors sent Letby a carefully worded apology on 28 February 2017. Their letter, which has been seen by the Observer, reads: “Dear Lucy. The increased mortality on the neonatal unit and subsequent reviews and re-designation of the neonatal unit has been very stressful time for all staff and parents. We understand that it has been an exceptionally stressful time for you.
“We would like to apologise for any inappropriate comments that may have been made during this difficult period. As you will be aware, emotions have run high. We are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year. Please be reassured that patient safety has been our absolute priority during this difficult time.”
Less than three months later, after weeks of anguished meetings about how to prevent Letby from returning to work, Brearey and his colleagues contacted Cheshire police.
It was that meeting, on 27 April 2017, that triggered one of the biggest and most complex murder investigations of recent times in Britain.
Brearey’s colleague Jayaram said he “could have punched the air” when the now-retired detective chief superintendent, Nigel Wenham, listened to the consultants and said that their concerns were “something that [the police] have to be involved with”.
Letby had been just six days from returning to work on the neonatal unit at this point. Instead, she never set foot on the ward again. The next time senior doctors would see her was when her picture appeared on the television news, after her arrest more than a year later, in July 2018.
DS Paul Hughes, who led the investigation, told the Observer the information provided by Brearey and his colleagues had been “the golden thread” for their inquiry. “They have been very brave in coming forward and they’ve put this ahead of their careers, in my view,” he said. “If it wasn’t for their ongoing determination, would there have been more [murders]? I don’t know. It’s difficult to answer or speculate on the future. But they’ve done well.”
‘Trust me, I’m a nurse’: Why wasn’t Lucy Letby stopped as months of murder went by?
It took almost two years for the police to be called in to investigate baby deaths at the Countess of Chester hospital. Now, after Letby’s conviction, a picture of ‘Kafkaesque’ obfuscation is emerging
So,
Police was informed by Consultants.
I read in other reports that it was CEO Tony Ch. who contacted the Police asking them to investigate.
Interesting.
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