I had the impression that they'd already had the property settlement. If so, there would be no further asset split in a divorce.
Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3
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There's also the possibility -at least this is something I can imagine - that if EP has felt under pressure from, say, her ex or others, has felt that there may be a question around her ongoing custody of the children for whatever reasons - whether that might be justified in reality or not - it's possible that when (according to her statement) SP accused her of poisoning the in-laws at the hospital using the dehydrator, that being sensitive to this (speculated) ongoing situation (pressure or insinuation from ex or others over a period of time that she is 'unfit' for eg), she may have just panicked and dumped the dehydrator for no reason whatsoever apart from an acquired fear of the power others might have over her to remove her children. This is only speculation. Perhaps she used the dehydrator in the past on foraged mushrooms, perhaps she used it to dehydrate some other substance that is not strictly legal (ie pot) -* Note, am not accusing EP of using at all, just giving some reasons why dumping dehydrator could have been knee jerk reaction to ex's accusation if there happens to exist an ongoing pattern of her perceiving hostility and believing that she is in a less powerful position to defend herself and her parenting and that she is under threat (real or imagined) of losing her children. All speculation, all Moo.I explored the idea of EP having a financial motive early in the case. But when we found out that EP inherited from her mother and is reasonably wealthy now, that doesn't seem to be a strong motive.
However, "Patterson said in the statement that she was worried she would lose custody of their children". I realise that was in the context of her husband accusing her of poisoning his parents so she "dumped the hydrator in the tip and panicked".
Leongatha suspected mushroom poisoning: Erin Patterson says media has portrayed her as an ‘evil witch’
Woman at centre of Victoria mushroom lunch that left three dead says she feels trapped in her home because reporters are camped outsidewww.theguardian.com
"Erin’s in-laws and several church elders had reportedly gone to her home on the 29th to discuss new arrangements for Simon to see the former couple’s children."
Inside the mushroom-lunch death mystery that’s gripping Australia
An alleged poisoning is captivating Australia, where authorities suspect Erin Patterson intentionally laced a lunch of mushrooms and beef Wellington for her former in-laws, killing three and sicken…nypost.com
I have never been aware before that child custody was the reason for the three deceased and the survivor to attend the lunch. I had only read in the media that it was a "mediation".
We have not been given any information as to what the present child custody arrangements are. Maybe EP had argued her case and received full custody of the children previously (perhaps due to SP's illness). Perhaps since he recovered, he has been talking to his parents about gaining shared custody or even full custody of their children which has angered EP. So maybe her in-laws suggested meeting over a lunch and invited the Minister and his wife to mediate the discussions. Perhaps SP had already set up a court date to proceed with this so he didn't think there would be any value gained by his presence so he cancelled the lunch at the last minute.
What is the definition of an unstable parent?
Examples of unfit parents include those who have drug or alcohol problems and foster an unsafe living environment as a result or a parent with a mental illness who is unstable.
Can a mother lose a custody battle in Australia? - Movement Legal
A mother can lose custody of a child if the Court determines that custody would not be in the child's best interest.movementlegal.com.au
Only about 11% of fathers gain full custody of their children in Australia. Perhaps SP has evidence of EP's mental instability? Maybe the children would rather live with their father?
What age can a child choose to live with a parent in Australia?
The Family Law Act 1975 in Australia doesn't provide a defined age when a child can single-handedly choose which parent they want to reside with.
What Age Can A Child Refuse To See A Parent In Australia?
Australian law does not have a set age for children to refuse parental visits. Discover what courts consider when making custody orders.justicefamilylawyers.com.au
IMO if child custody was the reason for their mediation, if EP thought that SP's parents were going to argue against her having joint of full custody in court, and she thought there might be a chance of the child custody arrangements changing to her disadvantage by something that the in-laws had evidence of, could that be a strong motive for murder?
Division of assets occurred prior to her mother's death from what I can gather. MOO
In Australia, divorce is not necessary for this to occur.
Estelle
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Then in other media, you read this:I explored the idea of EP having a financial motive early in the case. But when we found out that EP inherited from her mother and is reasonably wealthy now, that doesn't seem to be a strong motive.
However, "Patterson said in the statement that she was worried she would lose custody of their children". I realise that was in the context of her husband accusing her of poisoning his parents so she "dumped the hydrator in the tip and panicked".
Leongatha suspected mushroom poisoning: Erin Patterson says media has portrayed her as an ‘evil witch’
Woman at centre of Victoria mushroom lunch that left three dead says she feels trapped in her home because reporters are camped outside
"Erin’s in-laws and several church elders had reportedly gone to her home on the 29th to discuss new arrangements for Simon to see the former couple’s children."
Inside the mushroom-lunch death mystery that’s gripping Australia
An alleged poisoning is captivating Australia, where authorities suspect Erin Patterson intentionally laced a lunch of mushrooms and beef Wellington for her former in-laws, killing three and sicken…
I have never been aware before that child custody was the reason for the three deceased and the survivor to attend the lunch. I had only read in the media that it was a "mediation".
We have not been given any information as to what the present child custody arrangements are. Maybe EP had argued her case and received full custody of the children previously (perhaps due to SP's illness). Perhaps since he recovered, he has been talking to his parents about gaining shared custody or even full custody of their children which has angered EP. So maybe her in-laws suggested meeting over a lunch and invited the Minister and his wife to mediate the discussions. Perhaps SP had already set up a court date to proceed with this so he didn't think there would be any value gained by his presence so he cancelled the lunch at the last minute.
What is the definition of an unstable parent?
Examples of unfit parents include those who have drug or alcohol problems and foster an unsafe living environment as a result or a parent with a mental illness who is unstable.
Can a mother lose a custody battle in Australia? - Movement Legal
A mother can lose custody of a child if the Court determines that custody would not be in the child's best interest.movementlegal.com.au
Only about 11% of fathers gain full custody of their children in Australia. Perhaps SP has evidence of EP's mental instability? Maybe the children would rather live with their father?
What age can a child choose to live with a parent in Australia?
The Family Law Act 1975 in Australia doesn't provide a defined age when a child can single-handedly choose which parent they want to reside with.
What Age Can A Child Refuse To See A Parent In Australia?
Australian law does not have a set age for children to refuse parental visits. Discover what courts consider when making custody orders.
IMO if child custody was the reason for their mediation, if EP thought that SP's parents were going to argue against her having joint of full custody in court, and she thought there might be a chance of the child custody arrangements changing to her disadvantage by something that the in-laws had evidence of, could that be a strong motive for murder?
"Ms Patterson had invited her ex-husband Simon’s parents Gail and Don Patterson, his aunt Heather Wilkinson and her pastor husband Ian to her home in an effort to try and negotiate a reconciliation with her ex, according to the Daily Mail.
Simon was also invited but pulled out at the last minute, a close friend of Simon’s told the publication.
“They went to her house for a mediation to talk to the family. Simon was supposed to go there for lunch but he pulled out in the last minute otherwise he would be in that death bed too,” the friend said, adding that Simon was not interested in getting back with the mother of his children."
My question is: Was EP only interested in reconciliation due to their possible child custody issues? IMO
However, if this was a premeditated murder, EP did not want to wait until after the mediation to take action, she had already planned it. This indicates that she had already given up. IMO
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The child custody issues aren't a fact though are they? I think that's something else that's been suggested and speculated but certainly not confirmed. Moo
ETA: only referring to bolded section of your post. Imo neither lunch time mediation session or child custody as a basis for such can be confirmed as facts atm.
Estelle
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No I agree. I was only speculating (ALL IMO) in trying to find a possible stronger motive than financial issues for alleged murders. People are sometimes murdered because they have knowledge of something that the possible murderer doesn't want revealed especially not in court. EP and SP were apparently married in 2006 so 17 years of observing her behaviour. IMO
I agree for sure, motives for murder can be, and Imo often are emotional. In those instances perhaps only the perpetrator knows the reasons and even then it's not like they would necessarily be clear on what drove them to cross that line - like if we have a good handle on ourselves and are able to self-observe from a distance the 'reason' stays as fantasy or whatever (Imo). Moo Pre-meditated murder means crossing that line and from the perp's POV having a justification to do so.
Sorry if I was pedantic - I knew you were probably stating that as an opinion/speculation only. I've just experienced so many times when someone doesn't moo something leading to something becoming 'fact' - the way rumours spread and become fact in a lot of social media forums. I do love WS for trying to keep that stuff to a minimum and nip in bud!
Estelle
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In your opinion, is putting ALL IMO at the end of a post good enough? However, I was referring to two media articles which are within quotation marks!
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Idk, there are different ways - just so that it's clear that a sentence is an opinion or speculation and not fact. That's Jmo. In the case of the sentence I highlighted, when you added possible that made it clear you were speculating Imo. Without the word possible - post just shows two Msm articles with extrapolated quotes, then a sentence that read (before the insertion of 'possible') as fact. Jmo! -
Better to move on as I feel like we're getting off topic!
Eerie twist as mushroom poisoning victims are buried
The parents -in-law who died after a mushroom pie lunch cooked by their son's estranged wife Erin Patterson have already been farewelled at a private burial of 'only close family members'.
www.dailymail.co.uk
So two have been buried it seems. Let’s hope toxicology reports don’t take too long.
Earlier today I thought all the funerals were still on hold, still delayed by the police investigation.Eerie twist as mushroom poisoning victims are buried
The parents -in-law who died after a mushroom pie lunch cooked by their son's estranged wife Erin Patterson have already been farewelled at a private burial of 'only close family members'.www.dailymail.co.uk
So two have been buried it seems. Let’s hope toxicology reports don’t take too long.
"The families of three people who died after eating a poisonous mushroom lunch have been forced to wait for further police inquiries before they can bury their loved ones."
"It is unclear how long the grieving family members of the three dead lunch guests will have to wait for further police inquiries into their deaths."
Updated: 01:32 AEST, 23 August 2023
Why families of deadly mushroom victims were forced to delay funerals
Erin Patterson, 48, cooked a beef wellington at her home in Leongatha, in Victoria's Gippsland region on July 29, that contained death cap mushrooms.
That reads as an assertion that none of the victims had been buried by early AEST on 23rd August. Moo
But five hours later
By Candace Sutton for Daily Mail Australia
Updated: 07:25 23 Aug 2023
Eerie twist as mushroom poisoning victims are buried
The parents -in-law who died after a mushroom pie lunch cooked by their son's estranged wife Erin Patterson have already been farewelled at a private burial of 'only close family members'.
www.dailymail.co.uk
"A couple who died from a suspected mushroom poisoning in Victoria were laid to rest in a discreet private ceremony earlier this week."
Wondering if the 'Eerie Twist' is referring to the new asserted fact that two victims were laid to rest "earlier this week". Two contradictory assertions made as if they are fact within the space of five hours. Annoying! Moo
I'm taking it as true that SPs' parents' funerals have already taken place given the more recent article provides some level of detail. Wishing all the victims' loved ones support and love. This must be a very difficult time for them. :-(
Ellery84
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Tragic message on mud-covered note at eerie grave of mushroom victims
A mud-covered note on an unmarked grave has revealed the final eerie resting place of a couple who died from a suspected mushroom poisoning.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Poor Gail and Don Patterson, currently buried in an unmarked grave at Korumburra General Cemetery.
May they Rest In Peace.
SouthAussie
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Yes, JennieM posted a link earlier today that said the Pattersons had been interred. It was in the link in the post about the planned memorial service. Link
Multiple media outlets are reporting on it as the family released a statement to them today.
I would guess that the family deliberately withheld that information earlier because they wanted a completely private funeral.
Two mystery mushroom poisoning victims laid to rest, public memorial next week
Don and Gail Patterson died after they are believed to have eaten poisonous death cap mushrooms during a family lunch, but there are hopeful signs for another seriously ill victim.
Thanks South Aussie - Also posting article from ABC. My annoyance stems from Daily M publishing as fact that all families were still waiting. Imo that must have been unverified at the time. My fault for not sticking with other outlets that chose to wait for verification. MooYes, JennieM posted a link earlier today that said the Pattersons had been interred. It was in the link in the post about the planned memorial service. Link
Multiple media outlets are reporting on it as the family released a statement to them today.
I would guess that the family deliberately withheld that information earlier because they wanted a completely private funeral.
View attachment 442446
Two mystery mushroom poisoning victims laid to rest, public memorial next week
Don and Gail Patterson died after they are believed to have eaten poisonous death cap mushrooms during a family lunch, but there are hopeful signs for another seriously ill victim.www.smh.com.au
Public memorial to be held for suspected mushroom-poisoning victims Don and Gail Patterson
A memorial service will be held in Korumburra next week for Don and Gail Patterson, who died last month from suspected mushroom poisoning in Victoria's east.
www.abc.net.au
OrangeCash
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EP currently says the mushrooms were bought from an Asian grocery shop, not foraged. But if they were foraged, by someone else, as 'an experienced wild mushroom forager' you'd think she would recognise they were DC mushrooms while preparing them
Vic mushroom deaths: Claim Erin Patterson 'very good' fungi forager
Patterson made a beef wellington meal at a lunch that left three people dead and one fighting for their life.
Thoughts on SP being absent at the lunch?
My conflicting theories:
- his parents were the driving force behind the meeting. They wanted to restore the family unit and were bringing the church with them to lunch to help their case. Neither EP or SP wanted that. SP decided last minute not to engage with them at all.
- SP always intended to pull out at the last minute - why though?
- SP was unwell or had something else on.
My conflicting theories:
- his parents were the driving force behind the meeting. They wanted to restore the family unit and were bringing the church with them to lunch to help their case. Neither EP or SP wanted that. SP decided last minute not to engage with them at all.
- SP always intended to pull out at the last minute - why though?
- SP was unwell or had something else on.
Countem
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All of the following is MOO.
Undoubtedly, child custody (i.e., loss of control) may be a motive (or a contributing factor) in this case. That in mind, despite EP coming into a substantial inheritance, money (i.e., greed) may also be a motive (or a contributing factor). We do not know what EP’s outstanding debts or other financial pressures (if any) are. We do not know if EP feels entitled to certain assets that she (or her children) may have more freely obtained from the passing of any (or all) of the victims.
Undoubtedly, child custody (i.e., loss of control) may be a motive (or a contributing factor) in this case. That in mind, despite EP coming into a substantial inheritance, money (i.e., greed) may also be a motive (or a contributing factor). We do not know what EP’s outstanding debts or other financial pressures (if any) are. We do not know if EP feels entitled to certain assets that she (or her children) may have more freely obtained from the passing of any (or all) of the victims.
Ellery84
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Look, my thoughts are he didn’t want to get back together and he didn’t want to attend her lunch. Jmo
He stood her up, plain and simple.
Some people don’t like being stood up - that may have been a trigger.
IMO
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