GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[JosieJo]

‘Unrequited affection’ is not the term I’d use after hearing some of the messages he sent her, nor after learning of their little meet ups, trip to London etc…

In the beginning I thought we’d see LL being more into him than he was her however knowing what we do now, the last words I’d use to describe this ‘relationship’ would be ‘unrequited affection from LL’ but that is JMO call a spade a spade it was an affair whether emotional, physical or both IMO

I would say it would suit him very well in his position to "describe" it publicly as unrequited

 

[Dotta]

I reckon her personality isn't nearly as attractive as her appearance. A jealous and immature narcissist isn't the type of woman most men want to be with. It must have bothered her immensely, given her ego.

Dr A did not complain.
He only left when Police appeared.

Then he ran as quickly as his legs could carry him.
Only the cloud of dust was visible

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes but one much older, married , rather "plain" and as geeky as herself imo

Not there is anything wrong with any of those qualities

Might be a cliche but they do say that some women sometimes choose married men precisely because they are unavailable. Plus, as you say, why choose him? Hard to believe there aren't any hot male nurses across that hospital . Ok, the married registrar supplies status and he's a shield. Didn't he protect her in some ways against the accusations and tip her off with info too? OTOH I do get the impression she admired him and wanted his favour/attention

I appreciate that I've previously said that she comes across as asexual to me - maybe that is due to the arrested development vibe I get from her.

I don't think relationships/sex/ romance were her drivers even at young age of 25.
I've only caught up with a few of the texts with the registrar. From those it wouldn't surprise me if their illicit 'affair' had only been ' consummated ' once at most after a ton of booze ( London trip/s)

Just my impressions FWIW

 

[kittythehare]

Quote from previous thread, from an article in the Telegraph regarding his application for anonymity -

"Dr A, who is married, told the court he had been the subject of unrequited affection from Letby and said his wife had also been targeted by her on social media. <snip>

He said he had suffered from severe anxiety for four years and believed he would struggle to give clear and accurate answers in court if his true identity was revealed."

Rare anonymity orders on Lucy Letby witnesses 'will have chilling effect on future cases'

Highly unusual reporting restrictions were imposed despite victims and families being widely named when the nurse was first charged

www.telegraph.co.uk

thank you.
WOW!

 

[kittythehare]

Might be a cliche but they do say that some women sometimes choose married men precisely because they are unavailable. Plus, as you say, why choose him? Hard to believe there aren't any hot male nurses across that hospital . Ok, the married registrar supplies status and he's a shield. Didn't he protect her in some ways against the accusations and tip her off with info too? OTOH I do get the impression she admired him and wanted his favour/attention

I appreciate that I've previously said that she comes across as asexual to me - maybe that is due to the arrested development vibe I get from her.

I don't think relationships/sex/ romance were her drivers even at young age of 25.
I've only caught up with a few of the texts with the registrar. From those it wouldn't surprise me if their illicit 'affair' had only been ' consummated ' once at most after a ton of booze ( London trip/s)

Just my impressions FWIW

i can easily fit the unrequited love part into her persona, 'The lonely passion of Judith

Hearne' type.
Walter Mitty, delusion- he cannot leave her because she will die/go nuts/ cut him off from children, if present etc etc etc..

There would have been more than adequate space for that delusion along with killing them as if they were toys, one fed the other, in fact, most likely.

 

[cottonweaver]

here's an example

I am assuming this is one of the texts from the married registrar to LL? If that's right, the tone of this isn't what I'd expect from an illicit affair
Important context is she has just returned from a holiday in Ibiza. Dated June.
I am presuming that the two had been separated for a whole week. First texts on arriving back home



A message from a doctor to Letby: "How was the flight? Unpacked as well - it's the only way!! (washing machine on?) Day has been rubbish . Lots of unnecessary stress for nnu and too much work to fit into one day . I may have (over)filled the unit (again) . SHO's have all been fed & watered and the babies are generally ok - so maybe not as bad as I'm thinking!"

Letby: "Glad it's over but flight was & airport was fine thinks (on 2nd load of washing!!)

"Oh that's not good back to earth with a bump for me tomorrow then!!

"You seem to be quite good at acquiring babies to fill our empty cots....?"

The reply: "It's a skill I've had for years . To be fair, there wasn't a social admission! Yes, you might be a bit busy. Oh - you're right, I made sure they went first. Just realised when I last ate (oops)"

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

so, separated for a week, texts about washing and what's their main priority topic?
The hospital.

and her priority once she's back from Ibiza? Assignations with him ?
'Within 72 hours, she murdered two triplets Children O and P. Child O suffered “trauma” akin to a road traffic accident that damaged the liver. Both babies had air in the stomach via a nasogastric tube that would have put pressure on their diaphragm, making it difficult to breathe.'

https://archive.ph/SATKz#selection-1317.0-1317.281

@kittythehare yes, that's what I thought. some kind of Brief Encounter but without the great lighting & cinematography!

 

[Sundial]

This should be given to LL's supporters. An eye opener. JMO

Adding onto it the sneaking around/back on the unit when she wasn’t supposed to be there, prosecution NJ established she had even gained access to the unit without it logging her coming back in. She accepted this was the case.

Like some slithering deceitful snake.
EBM

 

[Sundial]

“why was she seen as a victim, not a killer?”​

A Lucy Letby inquiry must answer this: why was she seen as a victim, not a killer? | Gaby Hinsliff

Blinded by the nurse’s supposed ‘vulnerability’, the hospital rounded on doctors raising concerns, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff

www.theguardian.com

 

[d0lphin]

She was pretty enough to find a boyfriend if she wanted to.

Didn't she wrap a doctor around her little finger?

JMO

I don't think being pretty means you can find a boyfriend or get married, ugly people can get married, I'm testament to that!

But I've seen on here that she said she wouldn't get married and have children. She was only in her late 20s at that point.

It must have been her personality that put off potential boyfriends (and I don't mean with hindsight knowing what she did).

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

The NHS is facing having to pay unprecedented levels of compensation.

Lucy Letby: NHS could face record compensation bill of more than £60m

 

[Dotta]

I don't think being pretty means you can find a boyfriend or get married, ugly people can get married, I'm testament to that!

But I've seen on here that she said she wouldn't get married and have children. She was only in her late 20s at that point.

It must have been her personality that put off potential boyfriends (and I don't mean with hindsight knowing what she did).

Sure, looks don't matter in the long run, I agree.

It is just that, IMO, relationships/marriage didn't feature in her plans somehow.

She was "Married to her Obsession" and didn't have time for anything else.

Like some addicts, e.g computer games ones - they can spend 24 hrs playing - without sleeping, eating, etc.
Addicts don't function like regular people.
Dr A was just a prop in hospital "crime scene".

Her writing about not having a family
(in some distant foggy future) referred to her anxiety of being imprisoned.

I really don't think she killed Babies b/c she was jealous of others having happy marriages/families.

But it is only my opinion.

 

[d0lphin]

Sure, looks don't matter in the long run, I agree.

It is just that, IMO, relationships/marriage didn't feature in her plans somehow.

She was "Married to her Obsession" and didn't have time for anythng else.

Like some addicts, e.g computer games ones - they can spend 24 hrs playing - without sleeping, eating, etc.
Addicts don't function like regular people.
Dr A was just a prop in hospital "crime scene".

Her writing about not having a family
(in some distant foggy future) referred to her anxietÿ of being imprisoned.

I really don't think she killed Babies b/c she was jealous of others having happy marriages/families.

But it is only my opinion.

Thanks for clarification on when she said she wouldn't have a family, I had assumed it was prior to the case against her.

 

[Dotta]

Thanks for clarification on when she said she wouldn't have a family, I had assumed it was prior to the case against her.

I don't really remember when she wrote it.
But it was, IMO, after being suspended so the grim reality slowly was closing on her.

But it is only my opinion

 

[Parker Knoll]

I was listening to a podcast which I will link shortly. Pascale Jones who was the CPS charging officer in the case simply said she thought one of the reasons was simply “ boredom “
Staggering really.

Added link here.

How did Lucy Letby slip under the radar for so long? — From The North — Overcast

overcast.fm

 

[iamshadow21]

I was listening to a podcast which I will link shortly. Pascale Jones who was the CPS charging officer in the case simply said she thought one of the reasons was simply “ boredom “
Staggering really.

Added link here.

How did Lucy Letby slip under the radar for so long? — From The North — Overcast

overcast.fm

Well, she did prefer to be in 1, where the sickest babies were, and complained when she wasn't. But even that wasn't enough stimulation for her; she had to create more chaos and pain.

MOO

 

[nyvictoria]

Trying to imagine motivation and came up with this.

I think maybe she went into a nursing career for the wrong reasons: not because she had a caring nature, but because she wanted the status, the admiration and authority that nurses are often perceived to have. After being one of the not-so-popular kids when younger, she suddenly has this chance to shine, to be someone that people look up to, even idolise.

But the reality is not quite as she'd imagined it. Much of the work is mundane, she doesn't always get the respect or admiration she's expecting, and some of the parents don't appreciate her presence. That really gets her annoyed. Instead of being the admired angel, she sees everyone focusing on the babies instead. She's angry with them, because she thinks she should be the star of the show, not them.

I agree and think that jealousy of the happy new parents and their babies, along with her possibly unrequited love for the doctor added to her anger and frustration. If her parents have coddled her, which IMO they did, she likely felt entitled to everything missing in her life.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Any professional who have tried to analyse her since the verdict have pretty much said the same thing … they are scratching their heads with her. She fits no real mould ( or mold wherever you are in the world ! ) with what we know so far.
I am loathe to use the word but she’s an enigma.

 

[cottonweaver]

Sure, looks don't matter in the long run, I agree.

It is just that, IMO, relationships/marriage didn't feature in her plans somehow.

She was "Married to her Obsession" and didn't have time for anythng else.

Like some addicts, e.g computer games ones - they can spend 24 hrs playing - without sleeping, eating, etc.
Addicts don't function like regular people.
Dr A was just a prop in hospital "crime scene".

Her writing about not having a family
(in some distant foggy future) referred to her anxietÿ of being imprisoned.

I really don't think she killed Babies b/c she was jealous of others having happy marriages/families.

But it is only my opinion.

Could it be that Doc X was her source of ' narcissistic supply?
She definitely wanted his attention and his presence in the room during the emergencies.
She wanted his praise and affirmation, as well as others ( Lucy is so good in a crisis etc)

Most everybody seems to agree that she exhibits narcissism, some might even think that is part of a personality disorder she has. IDK about that but the definition is here:

narcissistic supply is a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration...
Fenichel highlighted the narcissistic need in early development for supplies to enable young children to maintain a sense of mental equilibrium.
He identified two main strategies for obtaining such narcissistic supplies—aggression and ingratiation—contrasting styles of approach which could later develop into the sadistic and the submissive respectively...

Psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg considered the malignant narcissistic criminal to be coldly characterised by a disregard of others unless they could be idealised as sources of narcissistic supply...

Heinz Kohut saw those with narcissistic personality disorder as disintegrating mentally when cut off from a regular source of narcissistic supply.'

Narcissistic supply - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She breaks down when he testifies, tries to flee the dock.
She uses the word Love in her jottings. It's not credible that she understood what love truly means.

She writes the names of her other sources of validation & supply in the jottings, over and over. Karen Rees, Kathryn de Bergarac. 'Doc X' etc Love. Love and hearts.
She claimed they were ' just doodles' I don't think so


What she told Ben Myers KC about those notes:
The love hearts are "just doodling".
Various names including a doctor, Karen Rees - "director of nursing", Minna,
"They were important people to me at that time - they were the main people I could talk to."
Also written is "I can't do this any more"
Letby said she was "fighting for my life, my job"
Also written is "HELP ME" and "Please help
"Please help me [doctor] LOVE PLEASE HELP ME [doctor] You were my best friend [doctor]."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

images of the meltdown notes / 'doodles' 'Scribbled notes are the only glimpse into Lucy Letby's twisted mind'

 

[Cuko]

Lucy Letby used ‘code’ in diaries that helped detectives crack case

Lucy Letby, one of the most prolific child killers in modern British history, has been jailed for life

www.independent.co.uk

'Detectives investigating serial killer nurse Lucy Letby say they were “surprised” by the amount of material they found at her home and that a “coded system” in her diaries helped officers uncover key evidence.'

“It gave us a really good steer for the second occasion as to what sort of things we were looking for,” he added. “So as an example, something that’s been very useful to the enquiry has been Miss Letby’s diaries. They appeared to be and it became clear later that it was almost a code of coloured asterisks and various other things put in a diary that marked significant events.”

Wow re the coloured asterisks. Speechless.

 

[ColourPurple]

Could it be that Doc X was her source of ' narcissistic supply?
She definitely wanted his attention and his presence in the room during the emergencies.
She wanted his praise and affirmation, as well as others ( Lucy is so good in a crisis etc)

Most everybody seems to agree that she exhibits narcissism, some might even think that is part of a personality disorder she has. IDK about that but the definition is here:

narcissistic supply is a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration...
Fenichel highlighted the narcissistic need in early development for supplies to enable young children to maintain a sense of mental equilibrium.
He identified two main strategies for obtaining such narcissistic supplies—aggression and ingratiation—contrasting styles of approach which could later develop into the sadistic and the submissive respectively...

Psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg considered the malignant narcissistic criminal to be coldly characterised by a disregard of others unless they could be idealised as sources of narcissistic supply...

Heinz Kohut saw those with narcissistic personality disorder as disintegrating mentally when cut off from a regular source of narcissistic supply.'

Narcissistic supply - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She breaks down when he testifies, tries to flee the dock.
She uses the word Love in her jottings. It's not credible that she understood what love means.

She writes the names of her other sources of validation & supply in the jottings, over and over. Karen Rees, Kathryn de Bergarac. 'Doc X' etc Love. Love and hearts.
She claimed they were ' just doodles' I don't think so


What she told Ben Myers KC about those notes:
The love hearts are "just doodling".
Various names including a doctor, Karen Rees - "director of nursing", Minna,
"They were important people to me at that time - they were the main people I could talk to."
Also written is "I can't do this any more"
Letby said she was "fighting for my life, my job"
Also written is "HELP ME" and "Please help
"Please help me [doctor] LOVE PLEASE HELP ME [doctor] You were my best friend [doctor]."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

images of the meltdown notes / doodles 'Scribbled notes are the only glimpse into Lucy Letby's twisted mind'

When we first saw the messages I pondered whether he was more like a father/parental substitute to her. Constantly asking if she was OK (which would have irritated the hell out of me), offering her a lift home, buying her little treats, telling her how great she was.

On the other hand to her, he was also (like Dr Ventress before him) providing her with valuable feedback about what the doctors were making of the collapses, as well as being somebody she could "trauma bond" with and then relive the deaths and near deaths with afterwards!