GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

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I agree entirely that the option not to appear should be closed, it absolutely must be mandatory. How the defendants “ appear “ is the question here. It’s completely different if you have a multi handed trial forcing a group of defendants to appear in the dock for sentencing of course than someone like Letby.
It’s more the disruption and upset caused to victims that I am thinking of.
 
"This inquiry is essential for the parents of Letby's victims, but it is also important for all of us. We all need to be sure that the NHS delivers the best possible care, that hospital management is accountable and responsive to concerns, and that whistleblowers are treated fairly.

'We cannot let what occurred at the Countess of Chester Hospital to ever happen again. This inquiry must lay bare the facts of what happened but it must also be the start of much needed change'."

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lucy Letby inquiry given powers to compel NHS bosses to give evidence

The inquiry into Lucy Letby's crimes will become statutory, the Health Secretary has announced. Letby, 33, was given a whole life sentence for murdering seven babies and trying to kill six more.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
d0lphin said:
I completely agree, it's a knee jerk reaction from the government and there have been cases of criminals laughing at the families in court (which I know they could do any time, not just during sentencing)

I
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There was an infamous case in the USA (naturally) where a convicted rapist/killer made an outrageous accusation about the father of the victim, who was present in court at the time... Richard Allen Davis - Wikipedia
 
Anxala said:
I watched this analysis earlier today on another site. It's one of the most interesting takes on LL I've seen to date. Well worth a look/listen.

The psychiatrist is Dr Andrew van der Vaart.
Does Lucy Letby have a "split personality"? If so, what is she splitting off and why? I discuss BPD and its 4 archetypes as identified by Dr. Christine Lawson.

Click to expand...

An unfortunate assumption that "witch' means someone sadistic IMO. And I found the mention of the 10 commandnents a bit odd! Goes on a bit, but it's all right.
 
cottonweaver said:
when i posted 'Maybe she's more reckless and less of the devious, scrupulous master-criminal than we've been led to believe? Makes me wonder, but I don't know the answer' I wouldn't go as far as saying she wasn't sly.
see judge Goss ' "There was pre-meditation, calculation and cunning in your actions..... etc

I agree with you though on the rest and was hinting that the particular conditions at CoC meant she was facilitated to continue her spree ( been reading views of nurses on another site & they think if u were LL, CoC NNUwas a good place because it was ' as slack as....'
Totally agree w you on 2nd para - she wanted to stay in the loop and if half your old Unit is in your corner and all of senior management, why not. Days out Chester races etc. Nonetheless she could have easily covered sickness absence because it could have bolstered the Grievance complaint she had submitted
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I wouldn’t say anything against this or the judges remarks. All of those things are present certainly. I just don’t think I can say that her efforts to conceal were anything other than short term and not seemingly effective. would any rational individual think you could do this and get away with it and when you know people associate you with these deaths already?

I never got the impression her motive was for attention I didn’t really think there was enough to assume she was a thrill killer either. There are some instances of very unusual behaviour after an event but not many. Staff said she appeared calm with one instance of her being animated. i really do wonder if she did it to be known.

in her shoes that’s a very quick and impactful way to make a name for yourself. It’s a maybe from me. Jmo though. I do think it could explain allot of contradictions about this very strange and baffling series of events.

eta weird how information came out after the verdict that made sense of what we had heard then to actually make less sense after. I don’t think anyone would have guessed about the managers.
 
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What about, as an alternative to making attendance for sentencing mandatory, instead make a refusal to attend mean defendants have to sit and face a camera in the holding cell which is then beamed into court. It may not satisfy everyone but it would certainly correct the current imbalance of power that the guilty hold.
 
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It is not the picture of the criminal the families want to see.

They want the criminal to hear their statements and the sentence and its reasons presented by Judge.

They hope something might reach the criminal's conscience and this person might show some remorse.

But I doubt it.
Most criminals do not care.
They are also in denial.
They almost always claim they are innocent.

JMO
 
marynnu said:
An unfortunate assumption that "witch' means someone sadistic IMO. And I found the mention of the 10 commandnents a bit odd! Goes on a bit, but it's all right.
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Hiya mary, wanted to ask was the other nurse who is suspected of poisoning 3 from the hospital where you worked.
See if my memory is right :)
 
Becci said:
o_OHiya mary, wanted to ask was the other nurse who is suspected of poisoning 3 from the hospital where you worked.
See if my memory is right :)
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OMG
How small is this world!
Amiga!
Marynnu!
You could be summoned as a witness to Court!!! o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
AHHHHH!
OHHHHH!
 
I was listening to one of the recent podcasts where they interviewed Baby L/Ms parents and it was said that LL was pleasant, helpful and kind to them helping them out in nappy changes but once L/M collapsed and survived her attitude towards the parents changed. The parents felt this was because she had failed in her attempt at killing the babies.

So my thing is, why would her attitude change towards the parents themselves? To me this sounds like she wasn't targeting babies necessarily but parents. Random thoughts but maybe it's a case of: Build up this wonderful experience for the parents, give them the hope and 'fantasy' and then pull the rug out from underneath them. She seemed to want to dig the knife in deeper (for lack of a better phrase) in her comments about one baby enjoying their first bath, the other about memory boxes and then saying your goodbyes.

It all sounds like she wanted to make the parents suffer and the babies were just the way to do that.

I know many have speculated before about it being aimed at parents but hearing this podcast really enforced that idea to me.
 
Anxala said:
I watched this analysis earlier today on another site. It's one of the most interesting takes on LL I've seen to date. Well worth a look/listen.

The psychiatrist is Dr Andrew van der Vaart.
Does Lucy Letby have a "split personality"? If so, what is she splitting off and why? I discuss BPD and its 4 archetypes as identified by Dr. Christine Lawson.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Very interesting. His theory about her splitting off the darker side of her personality makes sense but I think he misinterpreted some other aspects...

I think he overlooked that the comments about never having children or getting married were written after she'd been taken off the ward in 2016 when she was worried at the prospect of a police investigation and being locked up for life... where she wouldn't be able to do those things. There was no evidence that she was worried that she would never marry or have children BEFORE the murders so it doesn't make sense to say that that worry and the jealousy of others having those things, was the reason FOR the murders.

To add to that I don't think the family visiting their babies and LL being jealous of seeing them as a family unit triggered the attacks. It was more a case that she couldn't attack the babies whilst they were surrounded by their families, so had to wait for them to leave, in the same way she waited for the designated nurses to leave for their breaks before attacking the babies. Some of the parents were with their babies all day and she would attack in the short period where they went to get food or do the school run etc. So it wasn't a case of the babies being alone with LL for hours without an attack, and then the parents making a visit which triggered jealousy and an attack.

Also Doc Choc wasn't working at the hospital for the earlier attacks so the theory that she was trying to recreate a "family unit" at the resuscitations doesn't ring true either. Particularly when the earlier attacks resulted in other doctors attending the resuscitations who weren't alleged love interests or people she might have liked to have had children with. I think his oversight regarding the timing of the comments about never having children, led him off track a bit tbh.
 
cottonweaver said:
the penalty doesn't seem to apply to WLO's like Letby but makes a good headline

'If a criminal continues to resist attending their sentencing despite a judge’s order, they will face an extra two years behind bars. This new penalty will apply in cases where the maximum sentence is life imprisonment, including serious sexual or violent crimes such as murder, rape, and grievous bodily harm with intent'

www.theguardian.com

Criminals to be forced to attend sentencing in England and Wales

MoJ proposes new powers for judges, but caution raised over potentially disruptive behaviour by prisoners compelled to appear
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Yes they are only going to give 2 years extra in prison if you don't attend the sentencing. That doesn't work if you have a WLO!
 
Anxala said:
I watched this analysis earlier today on another site. It's one of the most interesting takes on LL I've seen to date. Well worth a look/listen.

The psychiatrist is Dr Andrew van der Vaart.
Does Lucy Letby have a "split personality"? If so, what is she splitting off and why? I discuss BPD and its 4 archetypes as identified by Dr. Christine Lawson.

Click to expand...
This is a very good insight in my opinion. Thanks for sharing. MOO
 
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