GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

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As usual this defense atty doesn’t know how to make a point and sit down. She has to whine on and on and bore everyone to death to the point that her argument loses impact.

Her pretending not to understand the prosecutor’s multiple objections about her saying “unsent” instead of “deleted” was irritating. Prosecutors seem to really dislike her.

This witness’ texts sound juvenile as well. He says he “hates people” and seems supportive of her in general throughout these texts. I guess if I found out my affair partner’s child committed a mass shooting I don’t know how I would react immediately after….maybe I would be sympathetic initially. But if you’re a real friend and supportive of her, why not stick by her now? JMO
 
Weki said:
As usual this defense atty doesn’t know how to make a point and sit down. She has to whine on and on and bore everyone to death to the point that her argument loses impact.

Her pretending not to understand the prosecutor’s multiple objections about her saying “unsent” instead of “deleted” was irritating. Prosecutors seem to really dislike her.

This witness’ texts sound juvenile as well. He says he “hates people” and seems supportive of her in general throughout these texts. I guess If I found out my affair partner’s child committed a mass shooting I don’t know how I would react immediately after….maybe I would be sympathetic initially. JMO
Click to expand...

Why is he sending her so many of the community's negative messages when she's expressing feelings about wanting to end her life?

On another occasion he also texts her that she needs to focus on defending herself not her son because nothing can save him but she needs to concentrate on getting legal advice to protect herself.

Maybe his wife has already divorced him?


ETA:
Jennifer: the school failed me and 4 other families
Bryan: and the pair of you too

Later, she asks him whether he watched the news ( Ethan's arraignment was televised)
He replies that he doesn't watch the news ( Obviously he didn't think Ethan's arraignment was good enough reason to make an exception that day)

( Jennifer also adds that she'd rather die than go to jail. )
Jennifer: ' Sarah sent me pics of the boys, I'm going to miss them so much '
Guess who she's talking about? Horses!)
 
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cottonweaver said:
Why is he sending her so many of the community's negative messages when she's expressing feelings about wanting to end her life?

On another occasion he also texts her that she needs to focus on defending herself not her son because nothing can save him but she needs to concentrate on getting legal advice to protect herself.

Maybe his wife has already divorced him?


ETA:
Jennifer: the school failed me and 4 other families
Bryan: and the pair of you too

Later, she asks him whether he watched the news ( Ethan's arraignment was televised)
He replies that he doesn't watch the news ( Obviously he didn't think Ethan's arraignment was good enough reason to make an exception that day)

( Jennifer also adds that she'd rather die than go to jail. )
Jennifer: ' Sarah sent me pics of the boys, I'm going to miss them so much '
Guess who she's talking about? Horses!)
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Good question! Kira did the same thing! It seems like both these individuals were excited at having direct contact and knowledge of the shooter’s mother. It’s like when your so-called friends giddily report to you about malicious gossip about you. That’s not a real friend. These two were just excited by the drama of it all! And Jennifer was lying (and already crafting a defense narrative) to both of them. All these individuals lack empathy and maturity imo.

I can only hope his wife wisened up and divorced him!

JMO
 
cottonweaver said:
I forgot to add the link

Reiterating part of Keast's opening statement

"But there is no claim that she gifted that firearm to her son, knowing he was going to commit the attack.

There's no claim that she wanted him to commit the attack.

So how can she be held responsible when her son pulled the trigger? And the answer is she's not charged with murder. She's charged with involuntary manslaughter.

You see, murder is it's an intentional killing. Involuntary manslaughter, by definition, is unintentional. It's rooted in negligence," Keast said. "You're going to learn that involuntary manslaughter is committed when someone's acts or their failure to out or they're failures to perform their legal duty or grossly negligent. And that gross negligence was a cause of death. A cause of death, not the cause of death."

Crumbley is not on trial for murder – but four charges of involuntary manslaughter. Keast said when somebody else was a cause of death, the person who was ‘grossly negligent can and still will be held responsible’.

"That is, if the person who pulled the trigger, if the shooter in this case, his act was reasonably foreseeable to the defendant"

Keast finished his statement by saying that Crumbley is not on trial for being a bad parent, neither are gun owners, or the school's inability to search a backpack. Instead, he said she's on trial for her negligence that could have prevented the tragedy.

"Gross negligence is when you could use ordinary care, just ordinary care to avoid an unknown danger. And you don't, even though it is apparent that serious injury could occur. And that's what this case is about. It's about Jennifer Crumbley's willful disregard of the danger'
www.fox2detroit.com

Jennifer Crumbley trial: Prosecutor says negligence led to Oxford High School shooting, not bad parenting

Jennifer Crumbley's trial for the Oxford High School shooting started Thursday with opening statements from Oakland County Prosecutor's Office. She's on trial for four cases of involuntary manslaughter.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com
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Thanks for posting his opening.

Could this mean that the jury instructions will be something like "what the school did or didn't do is not for you to judge", this is not about the school"?
I don't know if the jury was told, or even could be told that the school has numerous civil suits filed against them.
The pointing blame would be quite confusing at times if the parents and school were on an even playing field with the jury.
Since that's Smith's defense what is she hoping for, the jury will split the baby?
 
Good grief! Now state is going through all the items found at the hideaway place. Paper cups, food items, Lara Bar, bananas, socks, orange juice, “is it lotion or is it shampoo?”…..

“Ladies underwear or men’s?”
“Do you know how many?”
“The green bag underneath the pants, what did it have inside it?”
“What brand of pants and size?”
“What’s next to the business card?”

More pics of intimate clothes. I was genuinely expecting prosecutor to ask “what cup size?”

JMO
 
The prosecution clearly hates this defense attorney. She definitely plays up the damsel in distress defending a damsel in distress. "I'm so sorry." "Please stop me if anything I ask is unclear." "I'm so sorry, please let me rephrase." I'm sure this is an intentional tactic. It's probably also a tactic to have the defendant come to court in drab clothing and uncombed hair. Look what the state has done to this woman!

I think the boy toy's testimony overall helped the defense. We shall see.

Kira and the boyfriend seem to dislike her present day, despite both agreeing that they were friends during the time of the shooting. That's hard for me to reconcile, based on the fact there hasn't been communication (to my knowledge) since JC's arrest with either one of them. At this point these two are trying to salvage their reputations. Guilt by association can be a vicious thing.
 
IAMWAN said:
No. They are on another break because now they are discussing about how the firefighter witness is the person JC had an extramarital affair with and her attorney previously asked for that evidence to be excluded but now is saying she doesn’t care.
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OMG!
I missed this afternoon's session.
What a piece of work she is.

God only knows how much she told EC and I don't want to imagine the fights he was exposed to between the parents about both their cheating on top of the toxic home environment.
 
wyome said:
The prosecution clearly hates this defense attorney. She definitely plays up the damsel in distress defending a damsel in distress. "I'm so sorry." "Please stop me if anything I ask is unclear." "I'm so sorry, please let me rephrase." I'm sure this is an intentional tactic. It's probably also a tactic to have the defendant come to court in drab clothing and uncombed hair. Look what the state has done to this woman!

I think the boy toy's testimony overall helped the defense. We shall see.

Kira and the boyfriend seem to dislike her present day, despite both agreeing that they were friends during the time of the shooting. That's hard for me to reconcile, based on the fact there hasn't been communication (to my knowledge) since JC's arrest with either one of them. At this point these two are trying to salvage their reputations. Guilt by association can be a vicious thing.
Click to expand...
You outdid yourself with that description of Smith.
 
wyome said:
The prosecution clearly hates this defense attorney. She definitely plays up the damsel in distress defending a damsel in distress. "I'm so sorry." "Please stop me if anything I ask is unclear." "I'm so sorry, please let me rephrase." I'm sure this is an intentional tactic. It's probably also a tactic to have the defendant come to court in drab clothing and uncombed hair. Look what the state has done to this woman!

I think the boy toy's testimony overall helped the defense. We shall see.

Kira and the boyfriend seem to dislike her present day, despite both agreeing that they were friends during the time of the shooting. That's hard for me to reconcile, based on the fact there hasn't been communication (to my knowledge) since JC's arrest with either one of them. At this point these two are trying to salvage their reputations. Guilt by association can be a vicious thing.
Click to expand...
I give Kira a lot of slack.
She told JC that she was in shock on 11-30 when communicating with her.
It was JC who messaged her.
Who the hell would expect a message from the parent of a school shooter 1.5 hrs after it took place to cancel a riding lesson, or any lesson?
I have to update on the boyfriend.
 
Adderall and Xanax prescribed for Jennifer in the purse

4 cell phones, one whose screen looks deliberately smashed.
Cash
Sundries ( grooming stuff, purse-type contents)

State keen to point out that the bag and purse were secreted around the studio, inside storage bins
 
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The defense atty is not as helpless as she portrays. She’s shrewd. I also agree the “boy toy” (lol) helped Jennifer. Defense realized that the affair helps her client and pivoted. The prosecutor became overly defensive/excitable and that worked in her favor. She kept provoking him and he took the bait. It humanizes her client and the boy toy’s 3 long interviews with LE helps make it seem like the state is punishing the defendant for being immoral. The moral police. It also seems like the boy toy was sympathetic to the defendant until LE got a hold of him. The witch hunt narrative.

JMO
 
cottonweaver said:
Bryan fireman friend was surprised they bought him the gun
She'd already told him that she was ' afraid Ethan would do something dumb'

The friend of Ethan who ' moved away' was recounted to Bryan as a suicide. Prosecutor says ' and did you later find out that this was not true' ( IDK why he didn't explain that)

Bryan facebook messages JC after the murders but hadn't realised that FB can give LE access to those. Whoops!

Can barely read the FB messages. ( Many of these were deleted or ' unsent' by Bryan)
Jennifer is complaining Kira won't let her see the horses and Bryan is telling J that he assumed James will be charged for unsafe storage ( Dec 1st messages)
Jennifer replies and claims the gun had the string lock on it but she'd never mentioned that to him prior to Dec 1st when they'd discussed the shooting ( I guess this is where the lies start)

Jenn texts Bryan that the news says both parents will be charged.
Bryan replies that he doesn't understand what the charges could be and says it will be media misinformation

Dec 1st
Jennifer ' everything was secured, not loaded, bullets stored away separately. omg omg omg'

Another message. Jennifer ' no I'll never be okay, i lost my son, my son's a murderer, never be able to live with the guilt of that, life's not worth living '

Dec 2nd, Jennifer complains to him that her mom won't speak to her, she blames them.
J also messages that it's like mourning death of her child
Also messages that they are retaining attorney and charges are involuntary manslaughter.

Dec 2nd?
J also messages ' we are on the run again, helicopters, not sure where to message you' !!!!
Also J messages him ' clear your cache' and he replies ' good move' !

Dec 2nd
J messages him ' We're F-----d'
( She says they've secured an attorney and heard they will be charged)

She then goes on to lie to Bryan about the infamous maths worksheet. ( She lied and said she'd only ever seen the later version where Ethan had scrubbed out the drawings)
Click to expand...
JC also sent the
We're F-----d'
Click to expand...
to Andrew Smith, the lawyer OOP of the company she worked for.
JC's mom...very interesting blaming the couple.
It must have been James's mom who passed in the spring of 2021.
I'm so curious about who the "Damsel" subpoenaed as witnesses.
Thanks for the post.
 
Izzylizzy said:
I give Kira a lot of slack.
She told JC that she was in shock on 11-30 when communicating with her.
It was JC who messaged her.
Who the hell would expect a message from the parent of a school shooter 1.5 hrs after it took place to cancel a riding lesson, or any lesson?
I have to update on the boyfriend.
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem like JC has any close friends. She seems to treat Kira like a genuine friend, and Kira probably sees her as a customer that she has to be friendly with. I give JC some slack for her preoccupation with her horses. I don't condone her parenting obviously, but her relationships with the people closest to her was obviously strained and distant. JC seems as lonely as her son.
 
Izzylizzy said:
JC also sent the

to Andrew Smith, the lawyer OOP of the company she worked for.
JC's mom...very interesting blaming the couple.
It must have been James's mom who passed in the spring of 2021.
I'm so curious about who the "Damsel" subpoenaed as witnesses.
Thanks for the post.
Click to expand...
Re J's mom. Ah! I hadn't realised she has passed.
BTW, in FB messages, Jennifer also says to Bryan that they need people who will stick up for them as parents. ( Their parenting skills but implies that nobody is doing that. Not clear if Jennifer wanted people to make supportive statements in public, to media)

BTW State still didn't add any detail as to why Jennifer lied about the Ethan friend who moved away. OFC it mustn't be material to their case or they're protecting his ID but I was just curious as to why she would say the boy had killed himself when he didn't.
 
cottonweaver said:
Adderall and Xanax prescribed for Jennifer in the purse

4 cell phones, one whose screen looks deliberately smashed.
Cash
Sundries ( grooming stuff, purse-type contents)

State keen to point out that the bag and purse were secreted around the studio, inside storage bins
Click to expand...
Bad drugs and a bad, bad combo.
Was Jennifer a drinker?
 
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