Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[FacelessPodcast]

Adding for interest:

The closest train station to Yokota Air Base is Higashi-Fussa, and it takes approximately 1 hour via train to the closest station to the Miyazawa house Chitose-Karasuyama. It’s a very doable journey transferring train line at minimum only one time. There is walking involved to and from those stations but also buses available.
If by car as we’ve discussed the possibility of previously, directly to Soshigaya Park from the Air Base is just 45 minutes via toll and 1 hour outside of it. Again, a very doable journey

Now I’m wondering, if he drove back to Yokota after the murders and went via toll, would information be out there of that car passing through? Possibly cars very early morning of the 31st Dec. 2020? Assuming he went the quickest way back there and did go directly back.

Also to add, it seems as if the Miyazawa family also shopped around the Ogikubo area (about 3ish miles from their house). From Fussa to Ogikubo it's about 40 minutes on a direct train. I mention this as the majority of the killer's articles of clothing / possessions were all on sale in Ogikubo.

I can only assume the toll roads / video were checked. My worry would be: when? If the TMPD didn't jump on that angle immediately, the killer could have left Japan (incidentally, this is what my POI did fairly shortly after the murders).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The manner in which he killed Yasuko, the knife cuts he inflicted on her, suggests that he was in an altered state of mind—whether it be a psychotic episode or something else - manifesting as a frenzied and brutal slaughter, among other actions.

None of this does anything in the way of bolstering the suggestion that the killer had a developmental disorder. That he was in a frenzy is reasonable to conclude due to the over-kill. But it is not certain. He could have simply been driven by rage. Equally, he may have been calm and collected. This is clearly another possible reading from his actions.

There is no concrete evidence confirming that the killer was an illegal immigrant. However, the absence of substantial evidence about his identity leaves room for the possibility that he could be one. I mentioned some additional considerations earlier, providing a link to those points.

There is no evidence pointing to an undocumented immigrant whatsoever - concrete or otherwise. Saying that the absence of substantial evidence re: the killer's identity leaves the possibility of this -- it's just another way of saying that you don't know therefore anything is possible. This carries the same value as me suggesting the killer could be Ban Ki Moon because of the likely Korean DNA. Or that he was Boris Becker because of the tennis shoes.

 

[Melted]

Listened to the entire podcast last night.

First things first, amazing job Faceless. You and your team put together some riveting work.

My first thoughts on the crime jump to how unbelievable it was that nobody heard anything but the ladder being put down.

victims were slowly tortured but no screams, one victim was grappling with the suspect on the staircase and no noise.

This is all knowing that all of these victims knew that their family was next door in a building connected to theirs. Why not scream for help? Why did the suspect feel so comfortable staying around after what MUST of made that much noise?

I’m gonna take the day and try to wrap my head around the case but those were my initial thoughts.

 

[Charlot123]

I won't be naming him.

And no, I think there is no connection between him and the family. To clarify, the neighbours were the maternal family, the "An Irie" family (not her real name). There was also a couple over the road. They heard nothing and were eliminated from the investigation.

Side point: somebody mentioned that the two grandfathers had passed but that grandmothers were alive: it's only Setsuko who is still with us, Mikio's mother.

i agree; i think no one should expect you to name him. If it is not him, it is a liability. If it is him, it is the LE job to prove/disprove/check.

 

[Charlot123]

Listened to the entire podcast last night.

First things first, amazing job Faceless. You and your team put together some riveting work.

My first thoughts on the crime jump to how unbelievable it was that nobody heard anything but the ladder being put down.

victims were slowly tortured but no screams, one victim was grappling with the suspect on the staircase and no noise.

This is all knowing that all of these victims knew that their family was next door in a building connected to theirs. Why not scream for help? Why did the suspect feel so comfortable staying around after what MUST of made that much noise?

I’m gonna take the day and try to wrap my head around the case but those were my initial thoughts.

You know, in many houses, the sounds spread in such a strange way, that we learn to “explain” what we hear while it can be different.

Have tons of experience with own house.

 

[Charlot123]

Re: the size of the sneakers - I think the phrase “comical” in relation to the killer’s height and weight was a bit over exaggerated on my part lol, but if you see here from the Fuji TV re-creation screen grabs I shared where they used an actor that was the same deduced height and weight and wearing everything the killer wore, the sneaker size does look much too big:
View attachment 489343
View attachment 489345
It could be that the sneakers were deliberately too big for his feet, it could be that he just had big feet for his stature, and it could be that he was still growing as the age range given is still of growing age. But really from my side, just an observation.


Hi Charlot I think I can help with some of your questions here.

New Year in Japan is very busy because it is a big family affair. Companies here close specifically so that people can be with their families. Any travelling done during this time would have usually only have been done to go back to your family’s house if you didn’t live with them. Vacations are rarely taken during this time.
The streets of Tokyo would have been bustling at this time as people prepare. Traditional meals would be eaten on the 31st that require preparation, decorations and money envelopes need to be bought for younger kids, food and drink over the holiday would be needed before things close for a few days.

The Miyazawa’s shopped the day of the murder, or just before, most likely preparing for this. Their family next door would have also gathered with them on the 31st.
On Jan 1st they would have all likely gone to a temple or shrine to pray for luck, in a tradition called “hatsumode”. Temples and shrines at this time become very congested on the day and day before. Most people do this.

To conclude here, around this time there would have likely been an increase of people in the neighbourhood as people come in, rather than a decrease, as it is a family residential neighbourhood.

It is the one time of the year you can almost guarantee an entire family would have been in one place at the same time.

Thank you for such a great explanation of the NY atmosphere!

About the shoes. All in the perspective of the photo. This being said, anll types of old sneakers were huge and ugly, IMHO. Now they invest more into the aesthetics.

 

[Sillybilly]

About 10 years ago I met with and took a small contract job with a lovely Japanese business man who lived in Japan but owned properties in the Canadian city where I lived. The contract was to provide some supervision and surveillance of two of his properties as he had a concern about someone else he had employed. I spent many hours and submitted numerous reports to this person. I submitted invoices totalling $1200 but received no payment. He did however send me a lovely tin of Japanese cookies. After a couple of months without any payment at all, I emailed his office to enquire when I could expect payment. I received an absolutely scathing email from his office about how dare I insult Mr. X and reminding me that he had sent me lovely cookies. Needless to say, I wrote the amount off. The cookies were good but not worth $1200

I know there are cultural differences and I don't know if my experience was typical but, seeing how easily Mr. X was insulted by me asking for what I was legitimately entitled to, I'm wondering if it is possible that this ghastly murder was simply the result of someone in the family having insulted another family.

I'm sure the above is far too simple, but thought I'd toss it into the mix.

 

[Charlot123]

About 10 years ago I met with and took a small contract job with a lovely Japanese business man who lived in Japan but owned properties in the Canadian city where I lived. The contract was to provide some supervision and surveillance of two of his properties as he had a concern about someone else he had employed. I spent many hours and submitted numerous reports to this person. I submitted invoices totalling $1200 but received no payment. He did however send me a lovely tin of Japanese cookies. After a couple of months without any payment at all, I emailed his office to enquire when I could expect payment. I received an absolutely scathing email from his office about how dare I insult Mr. X and reminding me that he had sent me lovely cookies. Needless to say, I wrote the amount off. The cookies were good but not worth $1200

I know there are cultural differences and I don't know if my experience was typical but, seeing how easily Mr. X was insulted by me asking for what I was legitimately entitled to, I'm wondering if it is possible that this ghastly murder was simply the result of someone in the family having insulted another family.

I'm sure the above is far too simple, but thought I'd toss it into the mix.

My impression as an immigrant who has met many cultures: no. Bell curve distribution applies to all communities, and some “cultural traits” might exist, but Japanese clients are not, and never, viewed as manipulative or trying to avoid payment in general; you just got these “top 2 or bottom 2 percent” experience.

I think the issue of making someone lose his face exists, but probably doesn’t apply here, and in Japan people are careful about it.

I just think the Miyazawas just met another Kohberger or Allen, be it a local one or imported. MOO.

 

[Incoherent]

Also to add, it seems as if the Miyazawa family also shopped around the Ogikubo area (about 3ish miles from their house). From Fussa to Ogikubo it's about 40 minutes on a direct train. I mention this as the majority of the killer's articles of clothing / possessions were all on sale in Ogikubo.

I can only assume the toll roads / video were checked. My worry would be: when? If the TMPD didn't jump on that angle immediately, the killer could have left Japan (incidentally, this is what my POI did fairly shortly after the murders).

Interesting about Ogikubo. Funnily enough I have lived there too, from early 2013 to late 2015.

Ogikubo’s shopping area surrounds the train station and is very small. I feel like the family would have had a specific reason to travel into Ogikubo since it doesn’t offer much in the way of shopping compared to a few stations down which is Shinjuku and the main areas of central Tokyo. I wonder if the reason was determined they went there? Ogikubo is really known for it’s ramen though, famous in fact in Tokyo!

As for the killer, I guess since his outfit was on sale there it could be his reason. But like I said it is mere minutes from central Tokyo (and is the reason I lived there back then!) so he could’ve just been out and about.

Re: toll roads, I wonder how quickly they would have checked too. In time before your POI left? I don’t want to underestimate the TMPD but I wonder how quick it occurred to them to look and if they found anything at all.

 

[Incoherent]

About 10 years ago I met with and took a small contract job with a lovely Japanese business man who lived in Japan but owned properties in the Canadian city where I lived. The contract was to provide some supervision and surveillance of two of his properties as he had a concern about someone else he had employed. I spent many hours and submitted numerous reports to this person. I submitted invoices totalling $1200 but received no payment. He did however send me a lovely tin of Japanese cookies. After a couple of months without any payment at all, I emailed his office to enquire when I could expect payment. I received an absolutely scathing email from his office about how dare I insult Mr. X and reminding me that he had sent me lovely cookies. Needless to say, I wrote the amount off. The cookies were good but not worth $1200

I know there are cultural differences and I don't know if my experience was typical but, seeing how easily Mr. X was insulted by me asking for what I was legitimately entitled to, I'm wondering if it is possible that this ghastly murder was simply the result of someone in the family having insulted another family.

I'm sure the above is far too simple, but thought I'd toss it into the mix.

Wow haha. That is very unusual especially if a contract is involved. It would have been understood and honoured in Japan most definitely.
The cookies are usually a thank you gift for a service without direct payment or just as thank you in general.
You met a very odd one there!

 

[Incoherent]

You know, in many houses, the sounds spread in such a strange way, that we learn to “explain” what we hear while it can be different.

Have tons of experience with own house.

Even with the sound proofing Mikio installed it is still quite remarkable no one heard the noise of 4 brutal murders coming from a wooden house, especially next door and directly opposite houses. I’m not exaggerating when I say those walls are thin in that type of house. So thin in fact that in the Winter you can see your breath in the morning if you don’t keep the heating on overnight.

The majority of the murders were concentrated at the top of the staircase from the ground floor, which I suppose would make it the ‘kill point’, as it were, somewhat central and away from walls. Rei’s bedroom and the bathroom would share a wall with the house next door, but any stabbing (as far as we know) didn’t occur there. Perhaps that’s why the only noise heard was the thunking of the loft ladder when brought and up again?

But still… quite remarkable nothing was heard from the 6 other people just metres away and with a bathroom window that was still possibly wide open! But at this point I also believe that was not the entry point anyway.

 

[Charlot123]

Originally published in English in 1999 or so. I think it could be a good source of information about the Japan of Miyazawa's times, because it covers everything. Pretty comprehensive.

"Xenophobe's Guide to Japanese" by Sahoko Kaji et all on Amazon.

I bought it because there might be things I don't understand. For example, food habits.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Listened to the entire podcast last night.

First things first, amazing job Faceless. You and your team put together some riveting work.

My first thoughts on the crime jump to how unbelievable it was that nobody heard anything but the ladder being put down.

victims were slowly tortured but no screams, one victim was grappling with the suspect on the staircase and no noise.

This is all knowing that all of these victims knew that their family was next door in a building connected to theirs. Why not scream for help? Why did the suspect feel so comfortable staying around after what MUST of made that much noise?

I’m gonna take the day and try to wrap my head around the case but those were my initial thoughts.

Thank you so much for listening, @Melted. Very much appreciated It was two years of my life and tonnes of work, so very pleasing to know it was worthwhile. My main goal was simply to raise awareness about this crime outside of Japan, particularly as I think there's a solid chance the killer left the country years ago. Anything that makes his world a little smaller is a worthwhile exercise in my book.

RE: the sound, I can tell you that even the LE can't make any sense of that. I believe the word used about that explanation was "uncomfortable". Now, of course it's possible the struggle involved no screaming, though it did create some noise, but it was merely taken to be an argument. Particularly if the TV was blaring next door or some such. As the murders themselves occurred some time after 10:38pm and the ladder being thrown shut was around 11pm, it's possible the TV was on at the first point but people were going to bed by 11, thus that noise was heard. At any rate, it doesn't really make sense without knowing more.

As for his staying around in the house after the noise. 1) I can only assume he figured if the police hadn't come right away, they weren't coming at all. At least not that night. 2) Given his blood loss, maybe it was beyond his choice. He was simply too injured, too weak to make a hasty escape. Though I would venture his actions don't exactly speak of a man in a rush to an exit. Given my working theory about the son of a military man, I would guess that it's a combination of these two, plus he was waiting for curfew to lift on base to return to safety.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

You know, in many houses, the sounds spread in such a strange way, that we learn to “explain” what we hear while it can be different.

Have tons of experience with own house.

To this I can only add that my own sound engineer studied the walls and found it impossible that a cough would not be heard through them --thin soundproofing or not. Let alone if anyone had screamed. Maybe there is some argument that a sudden, dull sound like a wooden ladder been thrown up into place would travel better than a shrill scream. I have no clue. But I can only tell you that a professional was adamant that, if there had been screams, they would have been very, very audible.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

About 10 years ago I met with and took a small contract job with a lovely Japanese business man who lived in Japan but owned properties in the Canadian city where I lived. The contract was to provide some supervision and surveillance of two of his properties as he had a concern about someone else he had employed. I spent many hours and submitted numerous reports to this person. I submitted invoices totalling $1200 but received no payment. He did however send me a lovely tin of Japanese cookies. After a couple of months without any payment at all, I emailed his office to enquire when I could expect payment. I received an absolutely scathing email from his office about how dare I insult Mr. X and reminding me that he had sent me lovely cookies. Needless to say, I wrote the amount off. The cookies were good but not worth $1200

I know there are cultural differences and I don't know if my experience was typical but, seeing how easily Mr. X was insulted by me asking for what I was legitimately entitled to, I'm wondering if it is possible that this ghastly murder was simply the result of someone in the family having insulted another family.

I'm sure the above is far too simple, but thought I'd toss it into the mix.

This is a great story. The cheek of Mr. X! Side point, I have seen some fruit baskets in Tokyo (admittedly not cookies) worth $1,200. For anyone going to Tokyo soon, go check out the designer square melons in Ginza worth a months' wage.

I would imagine that anyone that has dealt with the Japanese, particularly in a professional capacity, would say that your experience is extremely atypical. It sounds like you were super unlucky!

Much is made of 'honour culture' in Japan and it's a complicated subject. As with many things there, the more you learn, the less you realise you know. Not to say you're doing this at all but, generally, I think it's often conflated with some sort of samurai movie plot. In my own (limited) experience, I would say the most notable cultural norm is the dance between omni-present politeness and a need to avoid conflict at all costs. Everything is a "misunderstanding", even if it's clearly not a misunderstanding and one party is blatantly in the wrong. JMO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I just think the Miyazawas just met another Kohberger or Allen, be it a local one or imported. MOO.

SBM: I definitely agree. Most reasonable to conclude the family didn't know him. At least on any social or close level. If they met, I believe it was in passing. Also just as possible he marked them for death at a distance. Maybe he didn't like their happiness. Maybe it was random.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

As for the killer, I guess since his outfit was on sale there it could be his reason. But like I said it is mere minutes from central Tokyo (and is the reason I lived there back then!) so he could’ve just been out and about.

Re: toll roads, I wonder how quickly they would have checked too. In time before your POI left? I don’t want to underestimate the TMPD but I wonder how quick it occurred to them to look and if they found anything at all.

SBM: Yes, everything on the killer would've been available throughout Tokyo. I guess the reason why it jumped out at me is just because it's not a huge, bustling area. Yet there was still everything he needed, more or less, to wear what he wore on the day. Including the M/X shirt, which was nowhere near as omni-present as Uniqlo is today (M/X dissolved long ago of course). Ogikubo, or this case in general -- it always leads me to wonder how much he watched them before the 30th of December, 2000. How much he knew going in.

RE: toll roads, I agree. I would assume that they would check the local CCTV for pedestrians / cyclists first along with the grid transport. I'm hoping the toll roads weren't an afterthought. In terms of my POI, the exact date of his exit isn't known but the range is between 1 - 3 months after the murders. I worry that's not enough time to divine his involvement AND figure out the necessary permissions to access him on base without a name.

 

[Incoherent]

SBM: I definitely agree. Most reasonable to conclude the family didn't know him. At least on any social or close level. If they met, I believe it was in passing. Also just as possible he marked them for death at a distance. Maybe he didn't like their happiness. Maybe it was random.

JMO I believe he visited Soshigaya Park a few times before or while deciding what he was going to do. It’s possible he didn’t target the family specifically, but the park was expanding at that time and also had numerous recreational facilities. It could be speculated on just why he was there, but perhaps for his age range the various facilities and spacious park areas appealed to him and others his age?
I do find it hard to believe a POI from Yokota just rocked up to a park in residential Setagaya and just climbed into a house and went for the kill on a whim without at least being there before.
As for if he knew the family personally - I also don’t think so.
But I do think they, or the house, were targeted to some degree.

RE: toll roads, I agree. I would assume that they would check the local CCTV for pedestrians / cyclists first along with the grid transport. I'm hoping the toll roads weren't an afterthought. In terms of my POI, the exact date of his exit isn't known but the range is between 1 - 3 months after the murders. I worry that's not enough time to divine his involvement AND figure out the necessary permissions to access him on base without a name.

SBM: as little as one month? It depends how fast they worked with the options that presented themselves. From what we’ve seen, heard, and read, it was almost like the TMPD felt confident they had the guy in the bag due to the sheer amount of evidence left behind. I wonder if it occurred to them to check the toll roads or look into Yokota within that timeframe. I’m inclined to stay they weren’t that quick.
Are you able to confirm if the TMPD has worked this angle?

 

[Charlot123]

So some questions. I started and finished the book yesterday. Definitely worth reading.

The Xenophobe's Guide to the Japanese The Xenophobe's Guide to the Japanese Jo Rice - Google Search

1) It says in the book that usually the oldest son stays with the parents, always. Now, this is Japan of 1999, so close to the Setagaya murders time. I am trying to understand what I yet don’t know.

(also, how traditional the family was.)

So… @FacelessPodcast, do you know if Mikio has older brothers? If not, him moving into his wife’s house was already not quite traditional. If he did, why is it only one side of the family in picture? His siblings should have the rights too. The same.

2) about the school, the college etc. Happy to post excerpts from the book; cram schools are very popular as it is hard to get into a good university. But, IRL, I understand that school bullying was very serious in Japanese schools. Probably much worse than here. I thought Columbine was bad but in Japanese schools it was almost an institutionalized system.

And then I came back to cram school. Could it be so that the perpetrator indeed was going to Yasuko’s school, was unhappy with the grades (mostly in the context bullying) and took it on the family? You know what bullied kids can do.

(BTW, if Kuromitsu existed, even if he didn’t kill the family…his torture of animals could be also explained by bullying.)

3) from what they write about Japanese toilet system - it would be unbelievable to not flush after himself. So either he was angry and spiteful even after their death, or simply confused and in haze.

4) @FacelessPodcast, the authors write that often there are no street names as such. Houses have names, but might be out of order. So if you are invited, there is often a fax sent out (we are in 1999) with the map. So… my question is, did the street on which Mikio’s house stands have a name?

If not, then the car standing too close to the house that evening could have been for reconnaissance? Not to get lost later? Thoughts?

Having read about Japanese system, I have a different psychological profile of the perpetrator. I can see why the Japanese police thought he was not their own. They might be wrong. But he seems not to fit into any collective, any group, any social stratum.

BTW, apparently, in Japan of 1999, left-handedness was considered not norm and kids were re-taught… food for thought.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I hope nobody thinks I'm casting aspersions on the Miyazawas, because that certainly isn't my intention. I'm just trying to think of an explanation for why the "Iries" didn't react to screaming if they heard any, and why they might lie about it later.

The only reasonably logical explanation I can think of (and again, I'm not saying it's true) is that the Iries were used to hearing fights from the Miyazawa house. It would potentially explain a lot.