OK - Nex Benedict, 16 year old student died after being beaten in school restroom, Owasso, Feb 8 2024

[airportwoman]

An overdose of medication could obviously be an accident (depending on the levels) or a suicide. Early on, authorities indicated that they were confident that the altercation was not the cause of death. This seemed highly unlikely, and they obviously knew the scrutiny that such a statement would make. There is something we aren't being told here, and I wonder if there's a note.

It's very difficult to accidentally overdose on either of those meds.

 

[LouTennant]

I just don't understand the inconsistency in the 2-side argument. Is there another crime on WS in which we need to hear the side of the perps in the altercation before saying they should be criminally charged for breaking the law, be it mugging, beating, rape or anything else short of murder?

MOO

Of course anybody is entitled to their opinion on guilt at any stage of the reporting. Early signs of guilt are more obvious in certain cases.

In this case inpeticular we are missing a lot of info. The statements from the 3 girls and the independent witnesses and also the full report from LE.

With that I am not going to rush to judgement and will reserve my full opinion/judgement until I see the all statements.

Jmo

 

[Mack the Knife]

And I would add that I really haven't seen this type of interpretation with any other victim on WS. Pages and pages of victims, but we never wonder what their role was when they were the victim of a 3-1 physical assault. I could see the questions if it was 1-1, but 3-1 and the (IMO) prejudicial statements from law enforcement make me question what is going on in the world that we can't all agree on fundamental rules of human engagement.

MOO

I think it’s always fair to wonder about the truth of what happened.

Statements from perpetrators and alleged perpetrators are evidence, and WS seems like the right place to speculate about more evidence. This would be an insensitive thing to be discussing on, say, a family memorial page, but I think WebSleuths is the right place.

 

[MyBelle]

And I would add that I really haven't seen this type of interpretation with any other victim on WS. Pages and pages of victims, but we never wonder what their role was when they were the victim of a 3-1 physical assault. I could see the questions if it was 1-1, but 3-1 and the (IMO) prejudicial statements from law enforcement make me question what is going on in the world that we can't all agree on fundamental rules of human engagement.

MOO

BBM. I think what is going on is that the extremist rhetoric spouted non-stop on not just social media but also the news, is terrifying young people who are in the LGBTQ community who attend public schools and also their parents. The rhetoric itself is a form of bullying and the last place it belongs is from the lips of taxpayer-funded employees who provide oversight to public schools.

I didn't realize that one of the drugs Nex took was an anti-depressant. I do know that many adolescents suffer from gender dysphoria and can be suicidal. I'm appalled at the insensitive and incredibly cruel statement made by the State Superintendent for education about a group of human beings who do have civil rights which includes attending public schools.

JMO

State officials react to summary autopsy report ruling Nex Benedict's death suicide

"The loss of our student in Owasso is tragic for the family, the community, and our state. The LGBTQ groups pushing a false narrative are one of the biggest threats to our democracy and I remain, more than ever, committed to never backing down from a woke mob," Walters said in a statement.

 

[Mack the Knife]

I'm appalled at the insensitive and incredibly cruel statement made by the State Superintendent for education about a group of human beings who do have civil rights which includes attending public schools.

JMO

State officials react to summary autopsy report ruling Nex Benedict's death suicide

"The loss of our student in Owasso is tragic for the family, the community, and our state. The LGBTQ groups pushing a false narrative are one of the biggest threats to our democracy and I remain, more than ever, committed to never backing down from a woke mob," Walters said in a statement.

(Snipped)
Bullying by grown adults, elected adults. The same ones who would say that they are anti-LGBTQ+ to protect children. How could Nex, or any trans child, feel safe in a state where the adults are so actively hostile to them?

At least the AG seems sympathetic:

"My heart is broken over the tragic death of Nex Benedict. The Medical Examiner’s finding of suicide makes me even more concerned that bullying played a role in this terrible loss," Drummond said in a social media post.

 

[al66pine]

OK. Law re Assault, Battery, Self Defense.

There are big GAPS in factual info about exactly who did what, who said what, and when, and other facets of the events.
Thus it's difficult imo to make informed predictions about any CRIMINAL CHARGES that may be filed.
(Ditto TORT ACTION, e.g., wrongful death lawsuit, but that's another post all together.)

Might help focus our discussion by reviewing OK. Penal Code definitions of “assault” and “battery” and a section re lawful use of force to defend self or others.*

OK. Penal Code
“Section 641 - ASSAULT defined" (<-my CAPS)
“An assault is any willful and unlawful attempt or offer with force or violence to do a corporal hurt to another.”

“Section 642 - BATTERY defined" (<-my CAPS)
“A battery is any willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another.”

“Section 643 - FORCE against another not unlawful, when - SELF- DEFENSE - Defense of property" (<-my CAPS)
“To use or to attempt to offer to use force or violence upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases: …
3. When committed either by the person about to be injured, or by any other person in such person's aid or defense, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against such person, or any trespass or other unlawful interference with real or personal property in such person's lawful possession; provided the force or violence used is not more than sufficient to prevent such offense;…”

That last clause is an important limitation on legally acceptable intensity of responding force.
If a person hurls a JetPuffed MARSHMALLOW hitting another person who responds by firing a GUN, that other person is using DISPROPORTIONATE FORCE.
If arrested for battery (gunshot wound) of the marshmallow hurler, the other person who responded w gunfire would have little or no chance at claiming self defense.

Too much missing info for me to offer any predictions. YMMV

===============================
* Oklahoma Statutes | Chapter 20 - ASSAULT AND BATTERY | Casetext
There are other OK. defense of self or others which are not app. to this case, so sbm above.

 

[Elley Mae]

I’m confused.

NB started the fight by throwing/pouring water on ppl, NB commits suicide.

Where is there a crime.?

 

[duckduck]

What exactly would justify a kid being beaten up by three other kids in a school? Nothing.

I haven't heard of any injuries the attackers suffered. Did any of them have to go to the emergency room because they got... wet?

Why do you think Nex lost consciousness during the attack?

Edit: I don't mean to be snarky, but asking about "both sides" contributes to victim blaming. No one deserves to get jumped at school.

I thought hearing "both sides" was due process in the US.

 

[duckduck]

Let me be very clear, because I know what I am about to post will be very unpopular.

I do not tolerate discrimination of any kind. The Matthew Shepard and Brandon Teena cases shocked and sickened me.

But, do we even know this is a hate crime?

NB went to the bathroom with at least two other friends and admits to talking and laughing with them when they entered the bathroom. By NB's personal account, the bullies made fun of the way NB and their friends were laughing. Nothing about NB's gender, nothing derogatory in nature. Then NB responded by pouring water on the girls and the situation (wrongly) escalated from there. Where does this turn from a group of kids who just didn't get along into a hate crime?

I'm just trying to be objective here as this case has been very highly politicized on what feels like not enough information. And that empowers the hate mongers. I'm sure they are picking this apart much more than I am.

 

[Mack the Knife]

I’m confused.

NB started the fight by throwing/pouring water on ppl, NB commits suicide.

Where is there a crime.?

We don’t know if there is a crime. Nex escalated the altercation by throwing the water, then the three girls escalated it by making direct physical contact with Nex. The crime would presumably be if any of those escalations themselves violated the applicable laws, or if the actions after the initial escalation were considered to continue beyond what was legal.
I personally find it hard to believe that three people beating up one person is a reasonable escalation from one person pouring/throwing water/a water bottle on someone, but we just don’t know what happened or if it rises to the level of a crime. Which is why it would be nice to hear the three girls’ accounts of the situation. I doubt we will until or unless charges are filed.

We don’t know what happened, and what we do know we are hearing from very biased sources (I include OK public officials and LE as biased).

 

[MyBelle]

We don’t know if there is a crime. Nex escalated the altercation by throwing the water, then the three girls escalated it by making direct physical contact with Nex. The crime would presumably be if any of those escalations themselves violated the applicable laws, or if the actions after the initial escalation were considered to continue beyond what was legal.
I personally find it hard to believe that three people beating up one person is a reasonable escalation from one person pouring/throwing water/a water bottle on someone, but we just don’t know what happened or if it rises to the level of a crime. Which is why it would be nice to hear the three girls’ accounts of the situation. I doubt we will until or unless charges are filed.

We don’t know what happened, and what we do know we are hearing from very biased sources (I include OK public officials and LE as biased).

BBM. I will be very surprised if federal hate crime charges are not filed.

The resource officer who interviewed Nex was clearly biased, but I doubt he has received proper training. That needs to change.

JMO

Five things to know about Oklahoma’s hate crime law

Our reporting found gaps in state and federal laws on crimes motivated by gender or sexual orientation and a lack of required training for law enforcement.

www.readfrontier.org

Oklahoma is one of 32 states without a requirement in statute that police complete training on investigating hate crimes and working with victims. Though some agencies reported offering hate crime-related training, the topics they covered were varied.
The state Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training created training objectives that must be taught in every police academy across the state. But their civil rights standards don’t require officers to be taught about the federal statute that covers hate crimes based on gender and sexual orientation.

 

[bootsinmass]

Really , at 16 the genders on the door shouldnt matter . I am not gonna to pee myself looking for a womans room ,when I see the mens room. Maybe it is just me. As humans sometimes we be Karening to much .

snipped for focus

This is one of the reasons Nex's death has been so public and so polarizing.

Oklahoma state has in fact passed law that students MUST use the restroom matching the assigned birth on their birth certificate. Technically this is not unconstitutional. While additions to the federal Title VII have been updated to include gender discrimination. it applies only to employers. Title IX (applying to protections in education) have not yet followed suit. This may in fact become a larger federal case with major implications, with HRC and the DoE involved. OK state has actually been a huge focus in LGBTQ spaces lately even prior to Nex's death, because the state has put so much work toward limiting gender expression especially by children.

If any investigation shows that the school discriminated by not addressing bullying, or that Nex did not receive the correct legal or physical protections afforded by the letter of the law, the family may also be able to pursue a wrongful death suit against the school and/or the minors involved, even in the case of apparent (reported)

 

[DFWNF]

Legally in my state it is physical assault to toss water on a person as has been described in this case.
I guess I am being pedantic, I do that often. Probably why I joined this forum for really.

That is interesting, I never knew that.

 

[DFWNF]

Being non binary, there seems to be confusion, or deliberate pretending ignorance, in the choosing of pronouns in articles etc.

 

[al66pine]

Both Sides. Due Process?

I thought hearing "both sides" was due process in the US.

@duckduck

Not sure if I'm following the comment. Is it saying that someone is being deprived of due process?

How is anyone being deprived of due process ATM under US constitutional "Due Process" clause of Fifth Amendment?*

AFAIK, no civil suits have been filed & no criminal arrests have been made, so basically in general public discussion, virtually anyone is free to say anything publicly (subject to ToS here on WS).

If I'm misunderstanding the post, my apologies.

_________________________
"Where an individual is facing a deprivation of life, liberty, or property, procedural due process mandates that they are entitled to adequate notice, a hearing, and a neutral judge."
See more at:

Due Process Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DFWNF]

Being non binary, there seems to be confusion, or deliberate pretending ignorance, in the choosing of pronouns in articles etc.

hi Laughing agree it was sad. I was thinking of some news articles and the obituary.

 

[Laughing]

hi Laughing agree it was sad. I was thinking of some news articles and the obituary.

iirc, Grandma (sometimes listed as Mom?) used mixed pronouns, while always speaking with caring & respect towards Nex the person.

I. too, am an old woman & mix pronouns, just haven't quite mastered the skill yet.

Now that is different imho from some of the journalism around this case!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[DFWNF]

Thanks for posting, I think I was still reeling from the comments from Superintendent Ryan Walters.

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks for posting, I think I was still reeling from the comments from Superintendent Ryan Walters.

So am I.
He should be removed from office.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

The Initial Water Tossing/Pouring

Legally in my state it is physical assault to toss water on a person as has been described in this case.
I guess I am being pedantic, I do that often. Probably why I joined this forum for really.

@Soulmagent
Not responding to anything about the law in your state or how it may be interpreted in your state, but here are OK. statutes which may be relevant to the initial water "tossing" or "pouring."

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.
OK. Penal Code
“Section 641 - ASSAULT defined" (<-my CAPS)
“An assault is any willful and unlawful attempt or offer with force or violence to do a corporal hurt to another.”

2022 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-641. Assault defined.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

“Section 642 - BATTERY defined" (<-my CAPS)
“A battery is any willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another.”

2022 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-642. Battery defined.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._.__

Not diving into the OK statute re defense-of-self-or-others.
Not commenting about later actions of other students, just providing some info which may be relevant to the initial water "tossing" or "pouring" in OK.