OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[Ladyotm]

I don’t think they had time to finish. Once the police were notified, TA had to have known she would be suspect. I bet they ended up just ditching the bodies without being able to adequately conceal/eliminate them. They had to know everyone would be watching their every move. People knew her history with VB and the hatred she had for her. They just couldn’t make a move without authorities knowing. If they had just a couple of hours before LE showed up at the car, those bodies would have never been found.

I wish we had a timeline of what they did. They probably had a police scanner. I also wonder what the plan was for the car. Surely they hadn't intended to leave it there. Still so many questions. So glad they have recovered these mamas bodies so they can have a final resting place for loved ones to visit.

 

[Optics]

I wouldn't read too much into what one cop told Rickman. He could have just said it snidely because of Rickman's prior arrests, including that on Feb. 21, Rickman was arrested and charged with Domestic Assault and Battery in the Presence of Minors and Public Intoxication, which prompted the district attorney to ask the court to revoke Rickman’s probation. The charge was for attacking his mother in law.

The officer in that regard was someone who was on Tifany Adams "payroll".

 

[AugustWest]

I have to say, in all the years I’ve been following true crime, these might just be the dumbest bunch of co-conspirator criminals I’ve ever seen.

IMHO

RSBM

100% the stupidest, most obvious planned murder I have ever seen. You really couldn't make it easier for the police. Reading the court documents the day after Easter was like reading a textbook on motive, means and opportunity. There where, when and why was spelled out in public documents so clearly and obviously. It gave me a headache just realizing how dumb it all was.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

No, the law prosecutes actions. If LE had evidence he'd 'ordered' it from jail, ie contacted them, promised money, gave instructions, then those actions could be the basis for charges.

JMO

I sure hope that TA calls the son from her new location and the son calls his mother to chat. Let them chat away at their pleasure. Perhaps more will be learned. MOO

 

[TheLoadedGoat]

I hate to say it, but I think they planned to torture both the women. If you just want them dead, you would shoot them at the car and leave them there to be discovered. I think the plan was to use the stun guns to incapacitate them in order to put them in another vehicle and leave. But Jillian pulled a gun, maybe got a round off, and the response was gunfire that killed them both. So then they had to get the bodies to the pre-dug grave and bury the evidence. Maybe it was a blessing if they were shot and died quickly.

 

[Herat]

I hate to say it, but I think they planned to torture both the women. If you just want them dead, you would shoot them at the car and leave them there to be discovered. I think the plan was to use the stun guns to incapacitate them in order to put them in another vehicle and leave. But Jillian pulled a gun, maybe got a round off, and the response was gunfire that killed them both. So then they had to get the bodies to the pre-dug grave and bury the evidence. Maybe it was a blessing if they were shot and died quickly.

I would hope LE would be able to recover spent cartridges and stray bullets from the car and from the scene if that occurred. The Twombly child was reported to say her mother told her things didn't go they way they were planned.

 

[MassGuy]

I hate to say it, but I think they planned to torture both the women. If you just want them dead, you would shoot them at the car and leave them there to be discovered. I think the plan was to use the stun guns to incapacitate them in order to put them in another vehicle and leave. But Jillian pulled a gun, maybe got a round off, and the response was gunfire that killed them both. So then they had to get the bodies to the pre-dug grave and bury the evidence. Maybe it was a blessing if they were shot and died quickly.

I think they just wanted them to disappear, with no evidence of a crime. That’s why I think there’s the comment in the AA about things not going to plan, which is the same language several of us used when this first happened.

However it was planned to look, this wasn’t it. We knew it, and the suspects knew it.

It’s still an unanswered question what precisely their goal was, but I don’t think it was torture. They just didn’t have the time.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I literally could not believe the details of the planned "anvil" attack. The timing logistics of being able to successfully pull that off are mind boggling.

I also read in disbelief, how Cora openly told her sixteen year old daughter, how the murders went down. These were people who if you looked at their facebook pages appeared to be upstanding, God loving people.

Their local community is reeling. They involved their own family and friends - cleaning & borrowing a truck involved with the crime, burying bodies on their property. I fully expect to see this on a two hour episode of Dateline.

My thoughts are with Veronica & Jillian's famiy and loved ones tonight

Yes, I can’t but help to contemplate how that would have gone? And who would have drawn the short straw to chuck the anvil from the back of a moving vehicle to hit the poor unsuspecting victims? I am inclined to believe it would have instead fallen on their foot, and there would then be an additional trip either to the hospital or the predug hole? MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I would hope LE would be able to recover spent cartridges and stray bullets from the car and from the scene if that occurred. The Twombly child was reported to say her mother told her things didn't go they way they were planned.

You probably don’t use guns if you bring tasers and a hammer. The AA makes no reference to casings or bullet holes, so I don’t think a gun was actually fired.

I think the hammer left the blood, and the tasers were also used.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

On Banfield tonight, NN, she interviewed an attorney for TA. The attorney gave a glowing picture of TA and for a while I thought he was describing Mother Theresa. Part of the plan going forward will probably be to depict TA a a harmless loving grandma!! JMO

 

[SteveP]

On Banfield tonight, NN, she interviewed an attorney for TA. The attorney gave a glowing picture of TA and for a while I thought he was describing Mother Theresa. Part of the plan going forward will probably be to depict TA a a harmless loving grandma!! JMO

Yeah, I don't see that working out too well for him. JMO

 

[DJfan88]

Could CW have been accompanied by her older brother to the interview with LE? Hopefully he was a safe person for her to turn to regarding the awful details her own mother shared. I really feel for this young girl in the middle of this nightmare situation.

 

[SteveP]

I do wonder if CW had noticed a difference in her parents over the past short while, as they perhaps got deeper into this cultish "group", and if she could shed light on any of their other activities that may be of interest to LE. JMO

 

[whitelilac]

On Banfield tonight, NN, she interviewed an attorney for TA. The attorney gave a glowing picture of TA and for a while I thought he was describing Mother Theresa. Part of the plan going forward will probably be to depict TA a a harmless loving grandma!! JMO

Was this before or after the arrest? If after, did he read the AA ?? and if so, is he out of his mind?

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I hate to say it, but I think they planned to torture both the women. If you just want them dead, you would shoot them at the car and leave them there to be discovered. I think the plan was to use the stun guns to incapacitate them in order to put them in another vehicle and leave. But Jillian pulled a gun, maybe got a round off, and the response was gunfire that killed them both. So then they had to get the bodies to the pre-dug grave and bury the evidence. Maybe it was a blessing if they were shot and died quickly.

I don't know if TA would have cared about torturing Jilian, but I think there's a reason her search history showed that she was looking to find out how much a stun gun would hurt someone. She might not have been planning a long drawn-out ordeal for Veronica, but I do believe she wanted her to experience a certain degree of pain before she died.

 

[ClearAhead]

I wish we had a timeline of what they did. They probably had a police scanner. I also wonder what the plan was for the car. Surely they hadn't intended to leave it there. Still so many questions. So glad they have recovered these mamas bodies so they can have a final resting place for loved ones to visit.

I agree, leaving the car there with the bloody crime scene surely wasn’t planned. It’s what immediately put LE on the path toward investigating a missing persons case connecting with a violent crime. No vehicle, no crime scene, no evidence would’ve been much more difficult to add 2 and 2 which pointed directly toward TA and her band of misfits. JMO

On another topic, often there’s a preconceived belief that burner phones can’t be tracked. Now we know otherwise.

 

[Knox]

You probably don’t use guns if you bring tasers and a hammer. The AA makes no reference to casings or bullet holes, so I don’t think a gun was actually fired.

I think the hammer left the blood, and the tasers were also used.

I don't remember, was there anything within earshot of where they were abducted? Brutal to think that how they were killed on the spot.

Thoughts on if Jillian actually pulled her gun on them?

 

[MassGuy]

I don't remember, was there anything within earshot of where they were abducted? Brutal to think that how they were killed on the spot.

Thoughts on if Jillian actually pulled her gun on them?

I think she pulled her gun. I think the tasers were there to subdue these women so they could be transported elsewhere, but they were forced to use the hammer when they fought back. She draws the gun, a struggle ensues, and blood is drawn.

Assuming the gun was kept in her purse, then it would otherwise be there. There is the possibility it's missing because it was on her person (holstered), but I tend to think that's not the case.

 

[Marie A]

IMHO
I think their evil plan was fouled up by Veronica’s relatives (per the affidavit)
Melissa and Joey Padilla found the abandoned car and alerted police to
the crime scene.
This was really quickly.
I thought it may have been Jillian’s husband (who wasn’t far behind police)
but he wasn’t mentioned - the Padillas were.
The criminals didn’t have time to get rid of the car and fulfill their whole horrific plan.
There had been ongoing death threats to Veronica by TA. Many were aware of these threats.
I still can’t believe how brazen and untouchable TA thought she was.

 

[Herat]

Do you think the attack was planned with two scenes or three?

One where the vehicle was pulled over or forced off the road and the second at the burial site?

Or did the plot have a third place between them where a confrontation, humiliation, or torture was to occur? noon

I am still very unclear about where TA was during that morning during the short time between 9:30 or so and just after 12 noon when the vehicle was found