UK UK - Jill Dando, 37, Fulham, London, 26 Apr 1999

[WestLondoner]

View attachment 499897

This graphic I've drawn is very crude and not to scale, but bearing in mind how small and cramped Jill's front garden was/is, there wouldn't be much room for the killer to maneuver Jill or himself.

I see your point. There's not a lot of room there.

I wonder if the killer was basically standing astride her, facing left. She was perhaps doubled over first, then forced to the ground. This would force the killer to hold the gun in his left hand, as to shoot with his right hand would entail the bullet travelling in the opposite direction.

 

[Inspector Evans]

He changed his story to the police before, just because he is saying something does not make it true.

The centre staff would know what time he arrived though surely, they had timesheets I'm sure?

Think I'll look back at the reporting for the first trial in June 2001 and see what was actually said in court about his movements on the lunchtime of 26th April 1999.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Dando accused 'set up alibi' at health centre

The man accused of murdering Jill Dando told staff at a health centre he was worried because he looked like the prime suspect, the Old Bailey heard yesterday.

www.theguardian.com

So 11:50am was just an estimated time.

Interesting article. All seems a bit vague for a court course really in terms of timings when he went to the centre.

If he'd been talking to Julia Moorhouse specifically about Jill Dando at half 12 that day that would've been a huge issue given the limited knowledge about her death at that time but if he knew he obviously kept quiet about it.

I tend to keep an open mind about Barry George. He had convictions for sexual assault so could see a path where that scales up for repeat offenders and ends in far worse.

However to me the alibi/lack of one for the day should've been a huge part of the case. It's o.k claiming someone was there but then a bit less believable if they're then somewhere else a mile away less than 20 minutes later, very small timescale either.

Of course if it was an hour or two later that's different. I was expecting more than a few paragraphs on this aspect of the case especially from the witnesses.

 

[RichardKimble]

Dando accused 'set up alibi' at health centre

The man accused of murdering Jill Dando told staff at a health centre he was worried because he looked like the prime suspect, the Old Bailey heard yesterday.

www.theguardian.com

So 11:50am was just an estimated time.

Was there a description of an attacker in the public domain? two days after the fact?

He had been agitated, saying the description of the Dando suspect matched him but that "it could be anyone".

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I see your point. There's not a lot of room there.

I wonder if the killer was basically standing astride her, facing left. She was perhaps doubled over first, then forced to the ground. This would force the killer to hold the gun in his left hand, as to shoot with his right hand would entail the bullet travelling in the opposite direction.

It's such a tight spot, and with such a high doorstep, that standing over her seems like it would have been quite awkward. I've put an image together from two in this Daily Mail article; I added the red arrow to mark the bullet hole in the door:

Photo reveals blood-splattered doorway where Jill Dando was killed

Beloved Crimewatch presenter Jill Dando, 37, was shot on her doorstep in Fulham, London on April 26, 1999 and a shocking photo showing the blood-splattered scene has now been released.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Jill's key was already in the door, so she was presumably standing on the doorstep similarly to how she's shown in this eerie photo.

I can so easily picture in my mind how this was done. Walk up behind Jill and push her down, in the process causing her to twist around just as the model started to do in the documentary reenactment, and just as Jill is doing in this photo. Push her down until her head is against the doorstep, with her left side facing towards the killer. The killer, either deliberately or because he's a bumbling fool with a crummy reactivated weapon, then fires a shot.

It all takes just a few seconds, and IMO the killer would have barely needed to move at all from his position behind Jill on the path.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The centre staff would know what time he arrived though surely, they had timesheets I'm sure?

Think I'll look back at the reporting for the first trial in June 2001 and see what was actually said in court about his movements on the lunchtime of 26th April 1999.

BBM. Seemingly not. On the day of Jill's murder BG turned up at HAFAD without an appointment. It really sounds like 11:50am was just a best-guess estimate. Presumably it was around midday, but beyond that I'm not sure the exact time was ever fully confirmed.

On the day of the murder BG was agitated but apparently made no mention of Jill; he missed an appointment the next day; and when he turned up two days after the murder he seemed to be trying to form an alibi, asking about what he had been wearing and what time he'd been there.

To answer @RichardKimble's question, I think there was a description available on the day of the killing. The neighbour who heard Jill scream, and saw the killer walking away, had already been interviewed on the news within a few hours.

 

[WiseOwl]

I have just read the book Jill Dando: Her Life and Death by Brian Cathcart (first published 2001). On page 129 there is the description that RH gave to the police of the man he saw at the gate:

'He (RH) could not see the doorstep of number 29 but he had a clear view of the gate and there was a man there, apparently turning away from the house and heading west. This man was white, well-dressed and clean-shaven with black hair and a solid build. He was wearing a dark waxed jacket, like a Barbour. He seemed to be holding something up in his hand at shoulder height, and he (RH) believed it was a mobile phone.'

Hope this is useful.

 

[sl77]

Been thinking about this. There's ONLY 3 reasons you'd kill someone in broad daylight:

1) You're stupid/unwell (loner etc)
2) You don't care (diplomatic status etc, send a message)
3) You're desperate (was this the only time she'd be alone?)

Some organised crime wouldn't care about getting caught, although I would think most would care.

 

[sl77]

Personally I think Dando knew too much and was assassinated we've seen it time and time again when people get to close to revealing corruption in power

Surely they would also need to break in to her home and remove any research?

Otherwise police would have found it and found a motive?

 

[sl77]

The thing which puzzles me is, what kind of moron would use a custom shell? Surely you'd use the most utterly common shell/gun/bullet?

Is it possible they picked up the original but left a dummy shell behind to let the police spend 20 years chasing their tail? This is what I would have done.

 

[sl77]

The MET so convinced the media in the SJL case that JC did for her that the cps even said he'd never get a fair trial.

David V has some good research on SL. There's a lot of false assumptions. If you haven't heard of him you should check it out on Youtube. He doesn't think JC did it.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Handguns (and therefore their bullets) have been pretty much completely banned in the UK since 1996.

It's entirely possible that the reason for the hand-crimped bullet casing was no more complex than the killer having to reuse old components, because they weren't able to get hold of new ammunition.

 

[Inspector Evans]

Was there a description of an attacker in the public domain? two days after the fact?

Good point. The Crimewatch appeal for information on Dando's killer went out on Tuesday 18th May and there was an e-fit in that programme so I presume early May was one was released for general circulation in the media and local area?

 

[Inspector Evans]

BBM. Seemingly not. On the day of Jill's murder BG turned up at HAFAD without an appointment. It really sounds like 11:50am was just a best-guess estimate. Presumably it was around midday, but beyond that I'm not sure the exact time was ever fully confirmed.

On the day of the murder BG was agitated but apparently made no mention of Jill; he missed an appointment the next day; and when he turned up two days after the murder he seemed to be trying to form an alibi, asking about what he had been wearing and what time he'd been there.

To answer @RichardKimble's question, I think there was a description available on the day of the killing. The neighbour who heard Jill scream, and saw the killer walking away, had already been interviewed on the news within a few hours.

Yes seems that way from what was said in the first trial. Given Barry George lived at Crookham Road back then which is east of Gowen Avenue he'd have had to walk down the road, then turn left into Kimbell Gardens then back up Colehill Lane and then would get back to his flat about ten minutes later.

Simply not possible for him to then get to the centre by midday. However if he really did go there later then that makes more sense in the timeline.

The latest Times article had him visiting the centre at 11.50am so this is clear case where something vague over two years ago has slightly morphed into fact.

 

[sl77]

To those who think it's BG I have a question:

Do you honestly think you could use a gun, put it in your pocket and only have 1 single particle of gun residue? Not 2 particles, or 3 particles, just 1.

If you tried this 100 times, how many times do you think you would have 1 single particle?

I reckon 0/100

 

[JennieM]

To those who think it's BG I have a question:

Do you honestly think you could use a gun, put it in your pocket and only have 1 single particle of gun residue? Not 2 particles, or 3 particles, just 1.

If you tried this 100 times, how many times do you think you would have 1 single particle?

I reckon 0/100

He didn’t necessarily put the gun in the pocket in question.

 

[sl77]

He didn’t necessarily put the gun in the pocket in question.

Gun residue is going to be tiny. These aren't glass marbles, they're tiny particles you can barely see.

So the question still stands. Do you honestly think there's any natural action he could do which results in exactly one single particle being in the pocket?

10/50/100 particles, sure. But 1...... seems unlikely to me.

 

[WestLondoner]

Gun residue is going to be tiny. These aren't glass marbles, they're tiny particles you can barely see.

So the question still stands. Do you honestly think there's any natural action he could do which results in exactly one single particle being in the pocket?

10/50/100 particles, sure. But 1...... seems unlikely to me.

Depends how long it was before the coat was examined. If it was 18 months it could have been dry cleaned 18 times.

 

[RichardKimble]

To those who think it's BG I have a question:

Do you honestly think you could use a gun, put it in your pocket and only have 1 single particle of gun residue? Not 2 particles, or 3 particles, just 1.

If you tried this 100 times, how many times do you think you would have 1 single particle?

I reckon 0/100

Depends how long it was before the coat was examined. If it was 18 months it could have been dry cleaned 18 times.

He wasn't arrested until 12 months after the killing so if it was him he's savvy enough to rid of the gun so why not clean all his clothes ?

 

[iamshadow21]

He wasn't arrested until 12 months after the killing so if it was him he's savvy enough to rid of the gun so why not clean all his clothes ?

I don't think, from the description of his flat, that he was much into cleaning. I'd be surprised if he ever got a single thing dry-cleaned in his life. I think regular cleaned was probably a rare occasion enough.

MOO