Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[photographer4]

Which, keep in mind, is more than likely due to the "accidental" leaking of evidence from the D’s own office during pre-trial hearings. I would also imagine some of the media restrictions were put in place in hopes of avoiding the small town & neighboring communities from being overrun with members of the media.

Of course, with all the Odinists preaching their white supremacy all across IN, where can we make room for the media?

All JMO

Edited - I am just frustrated by the lack of public access and realize the remark made probably wasn't helpful so edited.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

I personally believe that RA straddled Abby, pinning her arms to her side with his thighs, before slitting her throat.

I also think it’s possible that he used soft restraints that didn’t leave marks and/or that the girls were so terrified that they were frozen.

I think also that those girls were such good friends, that one would have stuck with the other no matter what; being more concerned with how to get their good friend out of whatever was happening to them, not abandoning the other. Or perhaps they were just frozen, trying to think of how to get out of the situation. Either scenario I think would have worked to RA's advantage.

 

[minor4th]

The timing of the defense’s motion to have the agent appear by video conference makes me think what tlcya said is exactly what happened (the general premise). They were going to use him, but he became unavailable so thought they would just have Gootee testify. Problem is it looks like he didn’t write the 302, so he can’t even use that as a basis for his own recollection.

If there is evidence they previously deposed him (I can’t see them just talking to a potentially adversarial witness) and his story changed, I’d have expected that to be brought up and the deposition admitted for impeachment versus shock and moving on.

JMO

A lawyer is not going to put a witness on the stand without knowing what his testimony will be.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The prosecution probably turned over all sorts of inadmissible stuff in discovery. If the prosecution was never going to use it at trial, it doesn’t have to be admissible. It’s also not the prosecution’s job to go and ensure the admissibility of the defense’s evidence. If the defense wanted admissible video, they should have gotten such directly from IDOC with appropriate validations as to the accuracy and context of the video.

JMO

Thanks for the helpful explanation-

 

[acutename]

Someone asked earlier about why no DNA/RA DNA?

According to Sheryl Mac:

@149Zone7

Richard Allen in his confession about getting “spooked” by the white van just gave us the reason there’s no DNA!!!

6:50 PM · Oct 30, 2024

I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I'm not sure the prosecution withheld the info. Apparently, the dates weren't listed on the folders and the defense didn't ask prosecution for exactness. And, apparently preciseness counts when attempting to admit evidence. Obviously, total guess/opinion on my part, though. ETA: I don't think any questions related to the legal process are dumb.... far from it!

Thank you-

 

[tlcya]

A lawyer is not going to put a witness on the stand without knowing what his testimony will be.

One should not. But it happens. JMO

 

[detectivewannab]

I feel like we are all relying on the worst possible people to tell us what happens in that courtroom. Like a group of drunks at a bar telling a story. No one really says the same thing and most of it doesn't make sense.

I think they are doing there best. It's hard because I antilize every word and then you read the next one & its not the same.

 

[detectivewannab]

Moo based on previous insurances when the defence couldn't locate discovery that was supplied to them... they might have misplaced the data/cut the clips and didn't note down the timestamps.

All MOO

Everything they do is calculated so for some reason they did not want a date and time on it.

 

[photographer4]

I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.

I just wanted to point out, the investigation did not find DNA from anyone - not just not from RA. Mooo

 

[m00c0w]

A lawyer is not going to put a witness on the stand without knowing what his testimony will be.

I think they were just sloppy. They thought they knew what his testimony would be because it would align with the 302. It seems like they either missed that he didn’t author the 302, or they thought he would testify to words he didn’t write. Either way isn’t great.

I wouldn’t testify to facts in someone else’s report, either, if it was from 7+ years ago and I had no independent recollection of the specifics of the event.

JMO

 

[Shadowtrix]

I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.

Was there any testimony about whether or not the killer would’ve inflicted these fatal wounds while facing the victims or standing behind them (for example if the killer told them to turn around and face away). Not sure if this is something that would’ve been discernable through autopsy or by a medical examiner or anything.

If there was, I missed it, but if (at least) the first victim didn’t realize what was about to happen, I could see that explaining the no defensive wounds/lack of evidence of the killer cutting themselves in the process.

 

[BUF]

The videos will not be shown today. The defense says they can’t say for sure when the videos are from because they only got them in folders labeled with months in the discovery. Judge Gull said if they can’t verify that she won’t let them in.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852409358656717301

That’s a pretty poor excuse from the defense imo. I’m sorry, but isn’t it up to the defense to open the video files they want to use to get the date?

 

[vls12345]

RA's defense team are his (preferred) public defenders, correct? Are they normally public defenders or volunteered as such for this case? (Or something else?) [I have followed this case periodically so I know it has been discussed, the SCoIN was involved, etc. but don't really know specifics. A quick overview or article link would be very appreciated.]

With a case of this magnitude, would the DT be representing other cases at the same time or do teams/firms focus on one client only during big cases?

(Mostly asking to know how concentrated or divided their prep time might be vs. a prosecutor's office which, I would assume, may have multiple cases ongoing at the same time.)

 

[AugustWest]

@Niner

Motion Filed Motion for Witness to Appear Remotely Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 11/01/2024​

[td]

11/01/2024​

[/td]​

 

[MassGuy]

Court is back in session at 1:05 p.m.

At 1:10 p.m. the defense called Brad Heath.

Heath tells the jury he lives just outside Delphi and is 70 years old. He worked for Reliable Exterminators and retired 5 years ago.

Heath says he managed company business for the Delphi area and surrounding spots. He describes doing a job at a company called Anderson’s and the scans of the building he did on Feb. 13 2017. His last scan was at 2:06 p.m.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi hands Heath a report he requested that shows what Heath did that day at that stop. The report refers to Heath seeing a vehicle at 8:45 a.m. the morning of the murders. He noticed it was in the same location that afternoon. Heath said the car was half-way down the road near the CPS building, parked about two feet off the road.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Arkay]

I think also that those girls were such good friends, that one would have stuck with the other no matter what; being more concerned with how to get their good friend out of whatever was happening to them, not abandoning the other. Or perhaps they were just frozen, trying to think of how to get out of the situation. Either scenario I think would have worked to RA's advantage.

IMO this is quite possible. Young best friends who wouldn’t abandon the other in their moment of greatest peril.

On the other hand, the survival instinct is strong, and the deep desire to spare their families from this MAY have compelled one to attempt to flee, if there were a viable way.

My guess is they were both terrified and bewildered and likely did freeze.

We will never know, unless RA decides to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Heath said it was an older car and looked out of place. He said he went to law enforcement a week after the crimes to tell them after he realized what happened. Heath said he talked to law enforcement a few times over the years at his own prompting.

Heath said he recently spoke to law enforcement about having seen a car that looked like it was “in a movie.” He says the car was a 4-door that looked like it was from the 80’s or 90’s. He said he was 150-250 yards away when he saw it. The defense shows a photo of the car.

Heath told the jury that he did not see pedestrians on 300N that day when he left. He said “someone shouted to me, ‘have you seen the girls?’” when he was leaving the entrance.

He said that evening he was at a community meeting and some “emergency people” said they were investigating missing kids. Heath told the jury he became concerned about the girls and called the sheriff’s office to say he had been there that day.

Heath said two FBI agents and one ISP agent came to his house to interview him.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Vern]

and yet attorney Auger appeared stunned and confused when her own witness couldn't remember what specifically BW had said about when he arrived home from work or if he'd made any stops on the way. The attorney that called him to the stand feigned shock and confusion when another agent's report wasn't helpful in reminding him.

MOO - They wanted FBI Special Agent Adam Pohl but he was unavailable to testify due to his current assignment in TX. So they hauled in Gootee, in the hopes that they could get what they wanted out of him and then feigned shock and confusion when they didn't. GMAFB

Isn't it frustrating?

No one seems to be following up any with any reportage of the cross.

 

[arielilane]

I asked about the DNA. Presumably the killer shepherded the girls along the trail, had the girls undress to some extent and killed them with one or more sharp objects. A lot of killers cut themselves and leave evidence behind even if there was no SA. Also the bodies were possibly moved/placed so he would have been in contact with them. If he is really impulsive and not meticulous, seems "lucky" for him that there was no DNA. IMO.

100% Cant argue w/you.

Edit: spelling