Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

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http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/21/smiley.face.killer/index.html

Above is a link to the CNN story that Soonerbabie is talking about. I'll also put it on the media thread.

snip/

In 2006, nearly four years after Jenkins died, there was a break in the case. A tip from a man in jail, described by Minneapolis police as a witness or suspect, caused police to change Jenkins' cause of death from "unexplained drowning" to a homicide.

The two detectives believe that in each case -- and in others they investigated -- the men were drugged, and then their bodies were slipped or tossed into the water to make it appear as if they'd drowned

The detectives also believe the victims were targeted. All of the young men were popular, athletic and good students.
Who would commit this type of crime?

"The type of person that would be the opposite, not smart, someone not good in school, maybe doesn't have a job, not popular," said Duarte.
Gannon and Duarte believe the young men were drugged to weaken them -- and given a substance that couldn't be detected by an autopsy.
"I believe these young men are being abducted by individuals in the bars, taken out, at some point held for a period of time before they're entered into the water," Gannon said.
He also believes the victims were abused mentally and sometimes physically abused before they were killed.
"This is a chance for them to have power and control over somebody else and manipulate. The fear of death is just as important as the act of death itself," Gannon said.

/SNIP
 
Well, that blows my theory all to hell. LOL

(scratching everything I came up and starting over) Why can't they just put us on the right track to begin with so we can run with it?! It seems they need the help and should take advantage of it. GRRRR!
 
Thank you for this link. I listened to the show and Bill Szostak said that the detectives say they are about 90% sure that his son's case is connected to the group they are investigating.
His Dad also said that 2 PA cases had been reopened and the police were speaking with the detectives.
I also wonder, because the individual has not been named , who is the other PA vic? We know of Tom Booth, we know of a few other college men that have drowned in PA during the time frame of these incidents. But they have not released the other vic's names. I wonder if it is in the same general area as Tommy or in another part of the state? And what body of water the other vics were found in?

MY best guess is this one, but it could be the other two also.

fran

3/10/07 Mathew Grendell, 20, drowned, last seen at St. Patrick's Day festivities.........Scranton, PA

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18396659&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6



or

11/02/01Anirban Majumdar, 25, graduate student, drowned, Philadelphia, PA

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian...Missing.Grad.Student.Found.Dead-2159163.shtml

or


12/10/02 David Dantzler Wolfe, 22, drowned., Philadelphia, PA
http://www.childseeknetwork.com/oldsite/commonalities.htm
 
IMO, it's possible that these phones have some 'gimmick' on them, which MAY be why they're not found with the victim.

Just an idea.

fran
 
Well, that blows my theory all to hell. LOL

(scratching everything I came up and starting over) Why can't they just put us on the right track to begin with so we can run with it?! It seems they need the help and should take advantage of it. GRRRR!

What'd I miss SS? Which part are you "off" on?
 
Wonder how many of these students were in publications for their accomplishments? Such as an announcements of their scholarships, sports type articles, National Merit, local scholarships?

With many I've looked into, there was some sort of 'media type' announcement for them or they were listed in a roster for a team, or local news.

I will say though, that I haven't found two on the same 'team' type thing though.

Just wonderin'
fran
 
I thought they were intelligent people doing this and not some street punk types. Which, I might add confuses me as to how a "not smart, not good in school" person or people could pull off as perfect of murder repeatedly as I have ever heard of!! Makes no sense to me.

"The type of person that would be the opposite, not smart, someone not good in school, maybe doesn't have a job, not popular," said Duarte.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/21/...ler/index.html
 
I thought they were intelligent people doing this and not some street punk types. Which, I might add confuses me as to how a "not smart, not good in school" person or people could pull off as perfect of murder repeatedly as I have ever heard of!! Makes no sense to me.

"The type of person that would be the opposite, not smart, someone not good in school, maybe doesn't have a job, not popular," said Duarte.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/21/...ler/index.html


I think if we go back to the issue of the detectives saying that there was an hierarchy then what he says does not destroy any theory of thinking that the ones at the top of the food chain, order these killings, probably are, very intelligent and very organized. They are not the ones doing the physical kidnapping and may not be the ones placing the Vic's in the water. Think of the Mafia, the people at the top come up with the plans and strategies. They hire punks and thugs to take care of the work they don't want to dirty their hands with. Yet they call the shots.

I think we are looking at a similar structure here, just not the Mafia. The top of this particular group is intelligent and organized..thrilled they have found a way to do this for so long without being caught. The people that are part of their group are the followers , who will do what they are told, exactly as they are told or risk their own demise. There are probably both personal and private gains for them. These people who are acting for the top would be the ones who would not have done well in school, nor been popular. They are more then willing to help with the demise of these targets that the intelligent top has picked.

I think the detectives are putting the message out there to let these people know they are getting closer and they know how the group functions. And also beware to the worker bees in the group..they are saying they have their number. Maybe they are hoping some of them will give up info to save their own selves.
 
I thought this was an interesting point about GHB since these guys were all around the same weight range. They weren't necessarily light but I don't think any of them were really overweight.

Does this point to the killer carrying something with a set dose of GHB that's not enough to knock out a large person? Or so strong that a small person would go toes up on the spot, rather than leaving the bar?

I'm thinking syringe or pipette.
 
Sheerluck, thanks for the links.

******
What I don't get about the Jailhouse informant is, if his/her info is so good that it changed the COD on Chris' autopsy report, then why doesn't it lead to someone?
 
I thought they were intelligent people doing this and not some street punk types. Which, I might add confuses me as to how a "not smart, not good in school" person or people could pull off as perfect of murder repeatedly as I have ever heard of!! Makes no sense to me.
/quote]

Most serial killers are men who use brute force without a lot of thought. That's why I thought these were simple street abductions on quiet dark streets. I didn't think the killers would be showing up and entering the bar first though; that would surprise me unless there are 2 teams of killers--1 team to socialize in the bar and slip a cap of GHB in a victims drink and another team in a van that waits outside
 
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