The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[Verité]

Thanks for your input. I said that I know it seems crazy, as someone else said, then Baez (paraphrasing) is ready for a mental institution. Yet, if the evidence is compelling as presented by the DA then certain aspects of it will point the finger at the Anthony residence. So, if Baez insinuates about another resident of that address, maybe CA. These could theoretically cause enough jurors to have reasonable doubt, and result in a non-guilty verdict. I think Baez will do whatever he can, no matter how crazy it may seem to the public, in order to have the best chance at getting KC found not-guilty.

If the evidence leads back to the house, then he can make a case against someone else in that house. Exlcuding the imaginanny with an imaginary key to the property, there are three or so people left - GA, CA,L. Just running the possible scenarios through my mind - I do believe HB would not be above implicating another family member if he thought it would play a case for KC's innocence. JMHO

You left out the dogs. . .and cat. Why should they be above suspicion?

 

[Pattymarie]

Thanks for your input. I said that I know it seems crazy, as someone else said, then Baez (paraphrasing) is ready for a mental institution. Yet, if the evidence is compelling as presented by the DA then certain aspects of it will point the finger at the Anthony residence. So, if Baez insinuates about another resident of that address, maybe CA. These could theoretically cause enough jurors to have reasonable doubt, and result in a non-guilty verdict. I think Baez will do whatever he can, no matter how crazy it may seem to the public, in order to have the best chance at getting KC found not-guilty.

If the evidence leads back to the house, then he can make a case against someone else in that house. Exlcuding the imaginanny with an imaginary key to the property, there are three or so people left - GA, CA,L. Just running the possible scenarios through my mind - I do believe HB would not be above implicating another family member if he thought it would play a case for KC's innocence. JMHO

So, JB would implicate a family member to get his own client off, despite her guilt and despite no justice for Caylee and despite what it would do to GA, CA or L. (or would an A family member not mind be implicated if it is a way to get KC off?) And JB's motivation would be simply to win the case and score one for himself? Despite truth and justice?

This legal manuevering would be more outrageous than OJ, imo, because of an innocent little child that was involved and no cries of race, fame or big money tainting the case. Also, OJ was once a beloved sports hero which caused many to believe he couldn't be guilty. Don't think KC has ever really enjoyed a good reputation anywhere or has ever become beloved to anyone for anything she has done.

 

[Verité]

But---on the other hand---maybe nobody knows of KC losing time. You think CA would admit to something like this. If she witnessed anythang like this would she even know what she was seeing. Maybe "if" KC did go thru this then maybe the new peep would just fit right in to the A. scheme of life. She did have different personalities.

What was that deal about when she heard Caylee had been found and then next thang was her talkin about the Ball game stuff. I have always thought Multiple Peeps. But nobody wants to go there so I sit here holdin my hands under my legs so I won't type it. Sometimes my hands get loose.
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

This just bears repeating (pun intended). . .and exploring. Let's see, I'm counting 22 distinct, personalities: KC, Zanni-the-Nanny, Hot-Body-Girl, Shot Girls' Manager,
Universal Events Planner, Kodak Asst. Mngr., Mrs. TL, JG Sweet Blond Fiance, The Photographer, AH Checkwriter Girl, CA Credit Card User, SP Account Embezzler, Dead Squirrel Girl, The ZG Seatbelt Offender, The Target Shopper, The White Liar (per LA), The Teenage Good Girl (per CA), The Childhood Nice Little Girl (per SP) , The Good Mother,
The Raging Convict, The Smiling Court Girl, JB Paralegal Girl. . .more?

For sure more than Sibyl, I think. Did any of the above Dudesses know or know of each other?

The problem with MP diagnosis is that the etitology is believed to be the psychological self-preservation-reaction to the severest kind of early childhood trauma
(which leads to a new whodunnit?). The dissociation, or walling off of the separate identities, has to be so sturdy that most don't usually know each other.
This diagnosis, while BIG in the 80s, has gone out of vogue.

Usually required for resolution is a person in authority who can have a Svengali-type, hypnotic effect (shrink, important other) to achieve cohesion of the
various identities--or keep them locked off from each other (which is not a usual treatment goal!). But, if one is ready to blurt out information to LE,
for example, a Svengali can arrive on the scene and say, "No talk! We'll try real lock-up instead!"

(Coz he can't say yet which of those dudes/dudesses did it and he ain't about to let one of 'em squeal.)

 

[Balthazar]

Agreed, IMO, we have yet to hear a SOD, that even a child would fall for. Seems like the DP qualified attorney wanted to try an insanity defense, which to my way of thinking, makes it pretty clear they know she did it, and the only point of debate is how to defend what she has done.

No, if you read the article it was not an insanity defense he was suggesting. What he suggested was a forensic psychological evaluation of her background and homelife to help explain why she behaved the way she did. He was sugesting probing her dysfunctional homelife. For example, one thing that comes to mind is Stodkholm syndrome:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome[/ame]

or Battered Woman syndrome:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_woman_syndrome[/ame]

If someone comes from an emotionally abusive background and have not escaped it and don't know that what is going on at home is not OK, they will often become victims of future relationships and not reach out for help or take action, even when they are in danger themselves. I think this is what the attorney was suggesting.

 

[Themis]

Yes, my stalker was finally caught - he was hiding under my bed with a knife and spotted by my boyfriend who had sat down on my sofa. He got me out of the apartment in such a way my stalker did not realize he had been spotted and watched the door while I called the police. Only then did I realize that:

A. I had had a stalker for 2 years.
B. It was my maintenance man who had always been nice to me
C. He had a knife, so obviously he had bad intentions

and finally,

The police found a bunch of my things at his home including a ring, underwear and other trinkets - but it was not just my stuff - there were several other women in my apartment building he apparently was doing the same thing with!

Just your description is horrifying! You're fortunate to be alive. I hope you moved immediately. Kudos to your BF for having such a cool head in a time of crises.

 

[Brini]

"Just give me TonE's number!"

That statement sums up the whole case. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Kateyes]

You left out the dogs. . .and cat. Why should they be above suspicion?

The dog, cat and the squirrels! I am just brainstorming for any possible SODDI defense. Who knows exactly what Baez will do - I think he does have a difficult job ahead of him. As for the suggestion of a stalker - a lot of the things that happended as far as what KC said and did could also be attributed to paranoid ideations from mental illness- a route of defense that, so far,Baez has refused to pursue. Again, suggesting CA does seem out there. But IMHO any defense of a "Not Guilty" plea seems just as far out there because the forensic and circumstantial evidence strongly paints a "big picture" of guilt. It boggles my mind to think of a defense that Baez could use that would be considered plausible by the selected jurors.JMHO

 

[Balthazar]

I'm with you on this, I think pinning it on CA is one of the only possible outs, the other being the ol' double twist defense... That is, have you noticed that all the evidence points toward KC, that in it self to some would prove she didn't do it. One could speculate that had she really done it, there would be some evidence pointing toward her innocence. However, being all the evidence points towards her, shows the evidence has been manipulated to make her look guilty!

Of course all the evidence that we have seen makes Casey look guilty - that's because all we have seen is the prosecution's case! The prosecutors are not going to include any evidence that makes her look innocent! That would be stupid on their part because the defense would anihilate them in the courtroom and the prosecutors are not stupid people.

Realistically, the ONLY places at this point in time to look for evidence that SODDI would be in the interviews with witnesses and the forensics. So far, none of the forensics tie Casey directly to Caylee's murder. That's one of the most confounding problems with this case. I truly hope that the prosecution has more/better evidence, but so far, nothing has been published that really makes this case airtight.

 

[Brini]

Yes, my stalker was finally caught - he was hiding under my bed with a knife and spotted by my boyfriend who had sat down on my sofa. He got me out of the apartment in such a way my stalker did not realize he had been spotted and watched the door while I called the police. Only then did I realize that:

A. I had had a stalker for 2 years.
B. It was my maintenance man who had always been nice to me
C. He had a knife, so obviously he had bad intentions

and finally,

The police found a bunch of my things at his home including a ring, underwear and other trinkets - but it was not just my stuff - there were several other women in my apartment building he apparently was doing the same thing with!

Yikes, Princess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-(

 

[Brini]

This just bears repeating (pun intended). . .and exploring. Let's see, I'm counting 22 distinct, personalities: KC, Zanni-the-Nanny, Hot-Body-Girl, Shot Girls' Manager,
Universal Events Planner, Kodak Asst. Mngr., Mrs. TL, JG Sweet Blond Fiance, The Photographer, AH Checkwriter Girl, CA Credit Card User, SP Account Embezzler, Dead Squirrel Girl, The ZG Seatbelt Offender, The Target Shopper, The White Liar (per LA), The Teenage Good Girl (per CA), The Childhood Nice Little Girl (per SP) , The Good Mother,
The Raging Convict, The Smiling Court Girl, JB Paralegal Girl. . .more?

For sure more than Sibyl, I think. Did any of the above Dudesses know or know of each other?

The problem with MP diagnosis is that the etitology is believed to be the psychological self-preservation-reaction to the severest kind of early childhood trauma
(which leads to a new whodunnit?). The dissociation, or walling off of the separate identities, has to be so sturdy that most don't usually know each other.
This diagnosis, while BIG in the 80s, has gone out of vogue.

Usually required for resolution is a person in authority who can have a Svengali-type, hypnotic effect (shrink, important other) to achieve cohesion of the
various identities--or keep them locked off from each other (which is not a usual treatment goal!). But, if one is ready to blurt out information to LE,
for example, a Svengali can arrive on the scene and say, "No talk! We'll try real lock-up instead!"

(Coz he can't say yet which of those dudes/dudesses did it and he ain't about to let one of 'em squeal.)

Don' forget, she spelled TL several different ways! It's EACH Mrs. TL entitled to an "alter?"

 

[Brini]

This just bears repeating (pun intended). . .and exploring. Let's see, I'm counting 22 distinct, personalities: KC, Zanni-the-Nanny, Hot-Body-Girl, Shot Girls' Manager,
Universal Events Planner, Kodak Asst. Mngr., Mrs. TL, JG Sweet Blond Fiance, The Photographer, AH Checkwriter Girl, CA Credit Card User, SP Account Embezzler, Dead Squirrel Girl, The ZG Seatbelt Offender, The Target Shopper, The White Liar (per LA), The Teenage Good Girl (per CA), The Childhood Nice Little Girl (per SP) , The Good Mother,
The Raging Convict, The Smiling Court Girl, JB Paralegal Girl. . .more?

For sure more than Sibyl, I think. Did any of the above Dudesses know or know of each other?

The problem with MP diagnosis is that the etitology is believed to be the psychological self-preservation-reaction to the severest kind of early childhood trauma
(which leads to a new whodunnit?). The dissociation, or walling off of the separate identities, has to be so sturdy that most don't usually know each other.
This diagnosis, while BIG in the 80s, has gone out of vogue.

Usually required for resolution is a person in authority who can have a Svengali-type, hypnotic effect (shrink, important other) to achieve cohesion of the
various identities--or keep them locked off from each other (which is not a usual treatment goal!). But, if one is ready to blurt out information to LE,
for example, a Svengali can arrive on the scene and say, "No talk! We'll try real lock-up instead!"

(Coz he can't say yet which of those dudes/dudesses did it and he ain't about to let one of 'em squeal.)

BTW-- When Bianchi was trying to blame his "alter," "Steve Walker," LE and the peeps on the street said, "OK. Fry Steve Walker, and let Ken go." ;-)

 

[Brini]

No, if you read the article it was not an insanity defense he was suggesting. What he suggested was a forensic psychological evaluation of her background and homelife to help explain why she behaved the way she did. He was sugesting probing her dysfunctional homelife. For example, one thing that comes to mind is Stodkholm syndrome:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

or Battered Woman syndrome:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_woman_syndrome

If someone comes from an emotionally abusive background and have not escaped it and don't know that what is going on at home is not OK, they will often become victims of future relationships and not reach out for help or take action, even when they are in danger themselves. I think this is what the attorney was suggesting.

KC seems more a victimizer than a victim.

She uses people, including her various squeezes, then moves on.

 

[Kateyes]

The Multiple Personality Disorder occurred to me long ago too. But, as far as what has been said so far, it seems that Baez does not plan to use any type of mental illness defense. Defense aside, she does compartmentalize very emotional events in non-emotional ways. KC can act like someone else watching from afar. As someone here cited in a recent post, the way she talked about a ball game, her total lack of emotion appropriate to the circumstances of being arrested for the murder of her toddler daughter - all signs that point to less than stellar mental health. Guilty or innocent, any mother in custody for the murder of her child would be overcome with emotion. Even Susan Smith showed emotion, whether real or not.

 

[Balthazar]

Just your description is horrifying! You're fortunate to be alive. I hope you moved immediately. Kudos to your BF for having such a cool head in a time of crises.

Yes I stayed at my best friend's house and then once the police were done gathering evidence at my apartment (they didn't need much since they actually fished the guy and his hunting knife out from under my bed to arrest him) I packed and moved that weekend along with several other women who lived there.

My boyfriend, at the time, now runs a nationally recognized residential school and farm for troubled kids. It's one of the best in the country. He's an awesome person.

 

[countzero]

This just bears repeating (pun intended). . .and exploring. Let's see, I'm counting 22 distinct, personalities: KC, Zanni-the-Nanny, Hot-Body-Girl, Shot Girls' Manager,
Universal Events Planner, Kodak Asst. Mngr., Mrs. TL, JG Sweet Blond Fiance, The Photographer, AH Checkwriter Girl, CA Credit Card User, SP Account Embezzler, Dead Squirrel Girl, The ZG Seatbelt Offender, The Target Shopper, The White Liar (per LA), The Teenage Good Girl (per CA), The Childhood Nice Little Girl (per SP) , The Good Mother,
The Raging Convict, The Smiling Court Girl, JB Paralegal Girl. . .more?

For sure more than Sibyl, I think. Did any of the above Dudesses know or know of each other?

The problem with MP diagnosis is that the etitology is believed to be the psychological self-preservation-reaction to the severest kind of early childhood trauma
(which leads to a new whodunnit?). The dissociation, or walling off of the separate identities, has to be so sturdy that most don't usually know each other.
This diagnosis, while BIG in the 80s, has gone out of vogue.

Usually required for resolution is a person in authority who can have a Svengali-type, hypnotic effect (shrink, important other) to achieve cohesion of the
various identities--or keep them locked off from each other (which is not a usual treatment goal!). But, if one is ready to blurt out information to LE,
for example, a Svengali can arrive on the scene and say, "No talk! We'll try real lock-up instead!"

(Coz he can't say yet which of those dudes/dudesses did it and he ain't about to let one of 'em squeal.)

Verite, I love how you and others have helped educate me, and in simply non-technical terms that a layperson can understand.

Now, KC isn't about MP's as I see it. I spent a good part of last evening, late and today going back over previous released doc dumps. Particularly, I was interested in the emails between CA and Rick because I wanted to clear up some errors of what I thought was said. Then I have been absorbing the discussions in the psychological thread -- that is so interesting.

I don't think KC has any MP's other than by choice and for manipulation purposes. I am wondering if KC watched any afternoon soaps or shows that had MP characters. We know she loved CSI and like kind of shows and she likes to portray herself as being well above average intelligence. Seems that she knowingly and purposely transfers herself into any scenario that benefits her, whether it's good for her or not.

Is it possible that KC/CA/GA could manipulate a scenario wherein the SODDI is within the family, yet none are the principle responsible for Caylee's murder??. I mean where all are collectively responsible? I don't buy any stalker, drug or prostitute theory. Simply because the history, timeline and pings don't support it.

Oh I know, but I don't know ..... just an tired ol' gal trying to reconcile why.

 

[Balthazar]

CountZero: How would the defense use that to defend Casey? If they are all responsible, how could they portray it that Casey is innocent and should never have been arrested in the first place?

I'm asking you to think this out because I also have a theory along these lines and I want to see if your thoughts are similar to mine.

 

[USARDOG]

You left out the dogs. . .and cat. Why should they be above suspicion?

The dog is too small, and the cat is never home.

 

[USARDOG]

My stalker NEVER contacted me by mail, cell phone, texting, personal notes or any other traceable way. I saw him in person around the apartment complex and he secretly entered my apartment and took things - in such a subtle way I didn't realize it. When I finally had to call police, I didn't know who my stalker was - in fact, I thought it was the first incident - and a scary one at that - a man under my bed with a knife! It turned out, however that the man had been stalking me for 2 years and had lots of lots of my things in his apartment!

Now as to Casey, at the party, her friends said she disappeared for 1 hour. So, yes, it is definitely possible that she was contacted by a stalker, unbeknownst to them, during this time - and by that, I mean he followed her to the party, got her attention and spoke to her outside or somewhere nearby and scared her and that is why she was crying at the party. Sometimes, I wonder if the incident at the party was the begining of everything and the reason Casey moved on to another group of friends without letter her core group know where she was. I also think of Cindy asking Casey about her silver Tiffany heart ring and where it was and Casey didn't know. Oh, she might have pawned it or sold it to someone - although it would be worth practically nothing, but if you take into account what my stalker took (which included a heart shaped ring), it could be that he took that ring as part of his collection.

With ONLY the prosecutions evidence to go from, it is difficult to put together a SODDI defense, but much can be inferred of a stalker in reading all of the interviews. I'm not saying that I am 100% certain this is REALLY what happened, yes, it may be that Casey killed Caylee in a rage or that there was a terrible accident and Caylee died and this has all been a coverup and a poor one at that, but I am willing to at least consider that it might have been someone else. We, of course, won't know for sure until the trial is complete.

Ah the phantom stalker... Not bad, not good, but not as bad as most of the others. Problem is, Caylee... Caylee was not left alone in the house as far as we know. Remember, KC was often sneaking back into the house when the others went to work, while claiming Caylee was at the baby sitter's and she was also was "at work", and her cell records would back the fact that she was home most of the time. Problem, someone was always with Caylee, her mother, KC, GA... So, the phantom stalker would have had to sneak into the house with people home. i believe the A's also had a burglar alarm... And a yappie dog! The time window is so small the phantom stalker may not be sellable. When you add the KC evidence, the horrible Zanny story, the phantom stalker disappears in the light of day. (Pun intended.)

No, i think the most believable Sod... CA. Motive, she hated kc enough to kill Caylee and frame KC. Opportunity, she was with Caylee much of the time... And, kc can claim she was covering for her mother when she made up the horrible, ridiculous nanny story.

Danger... The jury believes her, sets her free, CA goes on trial... KC could at that point confess, freeing her mother and not risk prosecuition, the danger here... KC might not want to confess! She makes big bucks by selling her story, and gets the ultimate revenge on CA.

Phantom stalker at the party story... Hmmm, it is a well known fact that phantom stalkers do not like parties! Besides, her father is an x-cop, her mother swings a mean hammer, and KC is far too cool under fire, IMO, to sell the phantom stalker at the party scares her, story.

 

[Balthazar]

No one else did it. KC killed Caylee.

Please remember the point of this thread is not to debate Casey's guilt or innocence, but to consider what the defense case may be. We know the defense has said:

1. Casey should never have been arrested in the first place.

2. When you hear her side, you will understand what happened and it will all make sense.

3. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case

4. Casey is innocent (not Not Guilty.)

Since the Sam Sheppard case is a SODDI case, then we are approaching the defense case from that point of view.

So what we're talking about is what the Defense is going to say. In doing so, it's important to remember that all of the evidence revealed so far is the prosecutions' evidence - so OF COURSE that is going to make Casey appear guilty. To try to formulate a theory about what the defenses case may be, we are trying to use the statements of witnesses and Casey's timeline to determine what the defense might say and how that could fit with the evidence that the prosecution has developed. This doesn't pertain to Casey's actual guilt or innocence. It pertains strictly to what the defense case will be once this case goes to trial.

Make sense?

 

[Jolynna]

Please remember the point of this thread is not to debate Casey's guilt or innocence, but to consider what the defense case may be. We know the defense has said:

1. Casey should never have been arrested in the first place.

2. When you hear her side, you will understand what happened and it will all make sense.

3. Casey's case is similar to the Sam Sheppard case

4. Casey is innocent (not Not Guilty.)

Since the Sam Sheppard case is a SODDI case, then we are approaching the defense case from that point of view.

So what we're talking about is what the Defense is going to say. In doing so, it's important to remember that all of the evidence revealed so far is the prosecutions' evidence - so OF COURSE that is going to make Casey appear guilty. To try to formulate a theory about what the defenses case may be, we are trying to use the statements of witnesses and Casey's timeline to determine what the defense might say and how that could fit with the evidence that the prosecution has developed. This doesn't pertain to Casey's actual guilt or innocence. It pertains strictly to what the defense case will be once this case goes to trial.

Make sense?

You make a lot of sense.

There have been some very strange child disappearances. Elizabeth Smart and Haleigh come to mind.

But, I have never seen a case where the movements of the defendant could be tracked almost down to the minute and the grieving mother was videotaped right after the victim's death arm-in-arm with her new boyfriend picking out videos. Or where there was such a clear trail (dead body fluid & decomposing hair in the trunk, lying to LE etc.). Or where the alibi (fake nanny) was such a stretch.

I also have to say that despite how bad Casey was at pulling off her crimes, she is also too obviously together, articulate and aware to pull off an insanity defense.

What the prosecutors have shown us, so far, pointing right to Casey is strong stuff. Casey started out presenting her side with a lot of lies. Her parents aren't gathering Casey any sympathy. Casey's lead attorney is being investigated by the bar association for telling his ex-PI to leave Caylee out in the woods.

Neither Casey nor her family nor her attorney have given the public a lot of reason to believe in them instead of the State of Florida.

IMO