FL - Tracy Ocasio, 27, Orlando/Ocoee, 27 May 2009 - #1

[warbuckle]

That is exactly what I was thinking, too. I think there could be some truth in what he said early on which is why I am trying to find it.

“I’m innocent,” “She left,” “I hung out with my father,” “We just hung out. She gave me a ride home.”

I am sure they have questioned the father, who also has a record so I don't know who truthful that would be. Who hangs out with their dad at 2am?

 

[kiki the parrot]

"Witnesses," eh... (ya mean, like, his dad?) I'll believe 'em when I hear 'em w my own two ears... maybe... this is the only thing "placing" Tracy anywhere near his house.
arrot:

 

[warbuckle]

So if they left Tap at 2am and she wanted to smoke pot then its possible the crime was committed later around 4am. It was reported that a phone call was placed at 4:30am from her phone but police aren't saying to whom. So if she was alive at 4:30 and the crime happened around 5am then I could see Jimmy deciding to drop her car off around the corner from his house instead of driving it back to Tap or someplace farther where he would have had to get a ride from someone.

 

[warbuckle]

'Hataway told investigators Ocasio gave him a ride home from the bar, where witnesses saw them kissing that night. When they arrived at his house in the 100 block of Lyle Street in Ocoee, she wanted to smoke marijuana with him, Hataway told investigators.

Hataway told police he showed her the drugs he had, but she didn't like them and left. However, records show that Ocasio's cell phone was near Hataway's home about 8:30 that morning.'

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-hataway-person-interest-ocasio-060409,0,1953691.story

arrot:

Well her last login on myspace her status was flirty and his was aroused.

 

[BondJamesBond]

If we went the simple route...pure speculation to include some things recently discussed...

• Ocasio and JVH drive to his father's house
• Without being seen by his father (e.g. outside w/ the appearance that they were going to go inside) JVH gives Ocasio something she thinks will be recreational, but, it knocks her out instead
• JVH puts an alive Ocasio in the back seat
• JVH drives Ocasio to Location 'A' either to xfer her to accomplice, or, etc.
• Location 'A' may be anywhere, including where the car was located abandoned if an accomplice was involved
• JVH drives to the location where the car was located abandoned if Location 'A' is somewhere other than where the car was abandoned and he either acted alone...or with an accomplice

Just simplifying the point of abduction really.

 

[kiki the parrot]

So if they left Tap at 2am and she wanted to smoke pot then its possible the crime was committed later around 4am. It was reported that a phone call was placed at 4:30am from her phone but police aren't saying to whom. So if she was alive at 4:30 and the crime happened around 5am then I could see Jimmy deciding to drop her car off around the corner from his house instead of driving it back to Tap or someplace farther where he would have had to get a ride from someone.

And that may be the grain of truth, that she'd agreed to go somewhere whether told it was his place or not, whether told to do drugs or just drop him off or w/e to where she set out willingly. I'm just not convinced it was actually to his dad's address, nor that this is anywhere near where she may ultimately have been dumped.

arrot:

 

[warbuckle]

Last thing and the I have to go for a while. I think they had planned to meet. She told someone that she met Hataway there a week before. For hataway to be so sure of himself to tell his old roommate he could make people disappear there had to be a plan. I think hataway knew going into tap what he was going to do. If this was something that just happened on a whim their would be more evidence. Some of those people into the dark arts are also into bondage. I could just see him keeping her someplace alive. They have found people before kept in underground cells.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Or... maybe drugs really weren't any good (laced), or told her he didn't have any but convinced Tracy he knew where he could get some... offering to drive at that point, and setting out on a one-way trip (for Tracy). She probably was incapacitated by drugs at some time during the night, thus easily overpowered especially if JVH had any cohorts. However it went down, the whole thing makes me sick. LE must have interviewed these other charmers by now, and hopefully knows alot more than they've been letting on.
arrot:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Some conditions to factor in via weather underground for Orlando (nearest to Ocoee I found w/ quick search...maybe able to do better w/ more time):

Mon 5/25/09

• Heavy rain w/ total of 2.16inches accumulation for the day.

Tue 5/26/09:

• Heavy rain w/ a total of 1.21inches accumulation for the day.
• Rain ended ~10PM
• Moon was waxing crecent (IOW...not much moonlight)
• Winds ~7mph
• Temp ~70F

Wed 5/27/09:

• No precipitation for the day.
• Skies clear from midnight until ~Noon
• Winds calm to ~7mph
• Temp ~70F until begins to rise ~9AM
• Civil twilight (light enough to see outside, but sun hasn't risen): 6:02AM
  [*]Sunrise: 6:29AM

FWIW...
Bolded some key conditions, IMHO.
Heavy rain on 5/25 & 26 = muddy conditions

 

[BondJamesBond]

Or... maybe drugs really weren't any good (laced), or told her he didn't have any but convinced Tracy he knew where he could get some... offering to drive at that point, and setting out on a one-way trip (for Tracy). She probably was incapacitated by drugs at some time during the night, thus easily overpowered especially if JVH had any cohorts. However it went down, the whole thing makes me sick. LE must have interviewed these other charmers by now, and hopefully knows alot more than they've been letting on.
arrot:

...very interesting, Kiki...this little scene seems very, very plausible.

 

[FifthEssence]

Anyone have any idea why they would want to cut down some trees???

snipped fromthe Fox news article linked above:

Members of Ocoee Police, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the Orange County Sheriff's Office were on hand as the contents of the eight foot long septic tank were drained. According to the police department, Hataway's father gave them permission to cut down some trees and drain the tank.

Probably to get the septic vacuum truck in there or perhaps backhoes into position to dig up the tank.

TANK CLEARED. NO SIGN of Tracy O.
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/..._woman_case_search_septic_tank.html?refresh=1
There was no sign of the missing woman in the 4 foot by 8 foot tank Tuesday.



Glad they cleared it. Leave no stone unturned.

 

[Jadenn]

Or... maybe drugs really weren't any good (laced), or told her he didn't have any but convinced Tracy he knew where he could get some... offering to drive at that point, and setting out on a one-way trip (for Tracy). She probably was incapacitated by drugs at some time during the night, thus easily overpowered especially if JVH had any cohorts. However it went down, the whole thing makes me sick. LE must have interviewed these other charmers by now, and hopefully knows alot more than they've been letting on.
arrot:

I haven't read through every post, and this may have been previously mentioned, but...

Maybe the drugs really weren't any good and either a) he didn't know or b) he knew and didn't tell her (in hopes of incapacitating her?). Maybe she took the drugs, and had a "problematic reaction", he paniced, moved her car and took her elsewhere.

 

[FaceValue]

Oooo, ooo, oooo....I had time to think this afternoon and I think I'm on to something.

First, let me address Verizon Bond...unfortunately I don't have that service - Sprint & TMobile, or I'd be on it. Anyone else local have Verizon?

Ok, so I have this theory...forgive me for the length of this, but I think it's important to setting up what might have happened and narrowing down a search area...

TO & JVH were shown on the Tap Room's security video leaving the place around 1:30am. At that time of morning, it would take 10 - 20 minutes to arrive at his house, regardless of the direction they took. JHV & TO were clearly drinking, so it's likely they would have taken a back road to avoid heavy LE traffic - both lived in Ocoee, so both would be familiar with back roads (as am I).

There was mention twice on this thread of images of JHV at a store buying beer, but I don't think there was mention of the time of day that he was seen or where. Logically based on his home, there is an ABC Liquor on Hwy 50 between the lights at Bluford and Maguire. Most likely place they would have stopped and that would still be open that late at night. I checked the locations and the Liquor Stores in the area and ABC is only open until 10pm, but can't find a liquor store open later.....so, this messes up my theory a bit....however, I did try calling some others that were logical for the intended route, and didn't get ahold of any of them. Just called and confirmed location and how late they were open. ABC was the latest.

Anyway, so, they stop by the store for beer and now come to think of it, that could be any gas station - a 7-11 of which is right next store to that ABC so while I'm typing, my theory is still on!! Yes!! Ok, so let's say he stops at that 7-11 next store to ABC (ABC's addres is 10835 W Colonial Drive so 7-11 is probably either 10837 or 10833) after suggesting they hang out a little longer - smoke some weed, drink some more, mess around. For TO to leave the bar with him after kissing him earlier in the night, I would say she had intentions of fooling around with in some form, as he did with her.

After leaving 7-11, they could have headed in 2 routes to go towards his house - Bluford or Maguire. Bluford only has one real rural area where they could have pulled off and that's the wooded area to the right of the road there that shares the corner of Bluford & 50. Feasibly, they could have pulled off the road w/o being detected, things could have gone awry, and he killed her. That side road off there is fairly secluded although I think it leads to homes or something, but also leads to the pond/lake that sits on Hwy 50....good place to look. I just thought of that as I was typing this. Other than that wooded area, there isn't anything I can come up with along Bluford that would be easy to hide a bright yellow car without sticking out to LE like a sore thumb....and like I said, there HQ is right on that road. It is likely however, that both of them were messing around as they drove, so when they stopped for alcohol, neither of them would have wanted to travel too far before they go more comfortable, and those woods would provide them quick access and cover...so, this area needs to be checked if it hasn't. I also see a lot of people driving and walking in and out of those woods...locals are very familiar and I have a feeling some seedy activities take place back there. Likely the type of group JVH would hang with.

Anyway, back to my original theory...they leave 7-11 and he suggests Maguire as a quicker, less LE trafficked route. Along Maguire, it's much more rural and has several areas of wooded area....probably lots of areas to pull off for seclution purposes. I'd have to drive them to get a better idea of "where the makeout points are these days" but I'm sure there are some in the area. He would know them for sure. Illegal drug activities and God only knows what else he's involved in would take place in those areas for the same reasons kids go there to make out.

So JVH talks TO into "parking"....they start drinking, maybe take something (may or may not have stopped at his house to pick up his stash) and parked somewhere. They start fooling around and she tells him no, or tells him she wants to go home b/c she's tired. He pushes the issue, she stands her ground. He doesn't like no, and behaves very similiar to the way the girl in Casselberry claims he acted...but TO is unsuspecting, somewhat messed up, and doesn't have the ability to react. He kills her, panics, and dumps the body off. Drives away, back to his house (safe zone) and parks the car a little bit away before walking home - close enough to walk but not quite hear his house. He's not in the right state of mind, so he doesn't think to cover his tracks...may have taken her purse or phone with him (not likely b/c wouldn't it carry her scent and would be tracable in the house by the dogs) but hears the calls coming in, panics, searches the car for her stuff, ditches it somewhere along the railroad tracks and goes home. I think the dad is full of **** on the timeframe, because it's not likely this all could have taken place by 2:30am, when he claims to have seen his son. Another thought - we don't know the full alibi, so Dad may have said he saw him at 2:30am. JVH could have walked in the house, said he was going to bed, got his stash, walked out of the house and went to mess around with TO.

Also, this area I'm talking about leads to more or less where they found Onda's car...so, may be able to narrow down the "parking" area to a nearby swath of OG's car, considering there might be a pattern. Again, if OG was a part of JVH's crowd, they likely did illegal things in secluded areas.... hmmm, it's starting to come together.

So, if you guys believe that this is plausible...which living here and knowing the area, I think is (but it is my theory), here's what we need to know (btw, looking at the map that Bond, etc. have created, my theory still makes sense):

- They left the TR at 1:30am. Where did they go next?
- JVH was on video buying beer, supposedly. What time was that? Before or after TR & TO's disappearance?
- Which way would he have travelled to go home - Bluford or Maguire? Maguire makes more sense to me if he's on a one way street...if he went Bluford, he'd be going out of his way.
- TO & JVH know Ocoee and would know back roads, etc. Did they have any regular hangouts? Places likely to go after going to a bar?
- TO's exact car location, direction it was parked and any evidence in the car. I know some of this was mentioned in earlier threads, but I didn't know what was theory and what was fact.
- Common dumping grounds for JVH...again he'd know the secluded dumping grounds well...these were his stomping grounds. Ooo...and they just drained a lake off that road the other day. Makes my theory more plausible. I feel like I'm on to something!!
- Cell towers in the area. If the ping took place at 4am, was that the same area as the 8:30 call. If we know the ping locations, the 120% rule could apply and that would help us narrow search areas even more. Also, which towers are verizon towers...
- Where was OG's car in relation to the secluded areas I suggested?
- Definitely not likely the car was parked anywhere in view...bright yellow, like I said before, would stand out and JVH would have thought of that.
- what areas have already been searched?

Ok, so since I'm new to the websleuthing thing, you guys will have to help me with how we can figure out some of these questions. Chester, Amy, Bond, etc....you guys will be imperative to helping this come together. I'm definitely not sure how to work the map thing, or I would have added some things and circled myself...but I have looked at it and have some search ideas...maybe someone can work with me on creating some likely areas. Also, I can get in my car and follow some tracks in that area and the theory of the pathway and see where it takes me. I'm headed out in less than an hour, and can easily take that path back home...so...more to come!!

I'm excited because I feel like everyone's theory's mirror this, and it might be quite plausible...guess something good might have come out of all the thinking I'm doing when I'm driving. Fingers crossed that I'm on to something and not nuts!!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

'Hataway told investigators Ocasio gave him a ride home from the bar, where witnesses saw them kissing that night. When they arrived at his house in the 100 block of Lyle Street in Ocoee, she wanted to smoke marijuana with him, Hataway told investigators.

Hataway told police he showed her the drugs he had, but she didn't like them and left. However, records show that Ocasio's cell phone was near Hataway's home about 8:30 that morning.'

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-hataway-person-interest-ocasio-060409,0,1953691.story

arrot:

Thanks! Yup. I hear a "ring of truth" in this version. Altho, I don't believe they went to his father's house at all. If so, the father would have seen her and been able to pinpoint when she was there. There would be evidence she had been in his house.

I do think the pot could have been part of his ruse tho. Let's go to X place and get high on the way home. Not someone's home, but a remote location with a view perhaps? He could have told her it was on the way to his house no matter where they went. This way he would have had her out of the car even if she had driven. It wasn't the drugs he had she didn't like...it was his aggression/rape/murder after getting out of the car to get high. Who would scrutinize pot and distinguish they didn't like it upon seeing it? Makes no sense. (He is peppering the real story.)

The cell phone being near his house at 8:30am could go along with him looking for it in the car and leaving the seats forward easily...but what did he do with the phone?!

If she did make a call at 4:30am I would be surprised. No sign of struggle inside the car says they were outside when he attacked her, imo. I would think whatever he did to her was done soon after leaving the bar putting the timeline before that call. So did he make the call or was it an incoming call?

 

[FaceValue]

Some conditions to factor in via weather underground for Orlando (nearest to Ocoee I found w/ quick search...maybe able to do better w/ more time):

Mon 5/25/09

• Heavy rain w/ total of 2.16inches accumulation for the day.

Tue 5/26/09:

• Heavy rain w/ a total of 1.21inches accumulation for the day.
• Rain ended ~10PM
• Moon was waxing crecent (IOW...not much moonlight)
• Winds ~7mph
• Temp ~70F

Wed 5/27/09:

• No precipitation for the day.
• Skies clear from midnight until ~Noon
• Winds calm to ~7mph
• Temp ~70F until begins to rise ~9AM
• Civil twilight (light enough to see outside, but sun hasn't risen): 6:02AM
  [*]Sunrise: 6:29AM

FWIW...
Bolded some key conditions, IMHO.
Heavy rain on 5/25 & 26 = muddy conditions

Bond/Warbuckle - as much as I'd like to believe the theory and that she's still alive, I have to say it's highly unlikely. Florida doesn't have basements because we're so close to sea level. Most places it doesn't take more than a few feet of digging max before you hit water. So some underground lair isn't likely. However, they may use an abandoned house, but it's also likely the homeless live in those abandoned houses, so they would probably not act on those behaviors in those areas for risk of being caught or an outside person seeing...so, again, not so sure on that one. But, it's likely that they did have a "secret meeting place" and JVH would consider it a hiding place....and come to think of it, I think I know of one on Lake Apopka, near that general area, where people probably wouldn't ask too many questions....hmmmmmmm.....

Someone also mentioned going out on a boat in Lake Apopka, and all the gators. Someone who lives here is fairly gator savvy and would know how to be careful (ie JVH) and would also likely know of a boat he could use. Let's just say he took her out on a boat to dumb her body, he might have done that knowing that the sound would startle the gators and any blood etc would call them to have their way with it...leaving little to no evidence. Yikes, let's not think that way! Clearly he can't be that smart if the parked the car that close to his house... that's another reason why I don't really foresee it being pre-meditated...he would have planned the car thing out better. I don't doubt he had plans to take her somewhere secluded, but I have a feeling something happened that made him rage, and that's when he hurt her.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Add to the list of things I wanna know...

• Gas gauge indication on Ocasio's car as-found abandoned
• Last gas purchase amount (e.g. via receipt or credit card charge)

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond/Warbuckle - as much as I'd like to believe the theory and that she's still alive, I have to say it's highly unlikely. Florida doesn't have basements because we're so close to sea level.

*snipped*

:waitasec: I think I need to clarify something, FV.

weatherunderground is a website (think weather.com) from which you can obtain historical meteorological data.

Sounds like you maybe mixing the reference to that website in my post w/ warbuckle's dungeon thought. :waitasec:

Point of providing the meteorological data is to consider what kind of conditions the perp might've been dealing with...

For example:

• Unlikely perp would be active after civil twilight (6AM) since he'd be seen...that tightens things up from 08:30AM a bit, FWIW
• Saturated soil conditions would make slogging off somewhere more difficult than under dry conditions...doesn't stop someone intent on it...might just slow'em down and get'em muddy enough for someone else to notice, FWIW
• Seems like muddy conditions might've preserved some footprints @ the abandoned car location...anyone know if this was just grass, gravel, or what?
• Little moonlight would be helpful in general for the perp

Just some examples FWIW.

 

[BondJamesBond]

So did he make the call or was it an incoming call?

*snipped*

Can't source it @ the moment, but, IIRC, it was an outgoing call to a friend of Tracy's that wasn't answered by the other party. No info on whether or not a vmail was left of any kind. No info on whether or not this is a number Tracy was likely to have on speed dial.

I'm holding out for the possibility that the 4:30AM outgoing call was a call for help from Tracy. Why not call 911? I can imagine circumstances where the only thing one might be able to muster would be pushing and holding a single button...pure speculation. I've read at least once speculation that the call might've been the perp attempting to establish some evidence of Tracy being somewhere...e.g. posing. Without the ping info its hard for me to do anything w/ this either way. :banghead:

I dunno how tight the timeline is for the witnesses overhearing a car pulling up outside in the wee hours of the morning. IF that can be established and IF a 4:30AM call could be considered a call for help...w/ a 6AM twilight...you're down to 1.5hrs to get somewhere and back home if your JVH and working alone.

More out-loud noodlin' :waitasec:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Oooo, ooo, oooo....I had time to think this afternoon and I think I'm on to something.

*snipped*

Time to switch to decaf, FV :coffee:

Seriously, glad some things are clicking for you. Chip away @ it. Be great to even stop in the ABC and the 7-11 you have in mind and just ask if that's where JVH stopped for beer. Never underestimate the simple approach. Go spend some shoe leather. :thumb:

 

[BondJamesBond]

...after reading some more on the Kesse case and considering possible connection to this one.

Apparently there was considerable construction going on @ Kesse's apartment, Mosaic. Kesse had commented to her family about being leered @ by some of the workers making her unconfortable.

IIRC, Toole and/or JVH were in the business of removing construction debris.

In Kesse's case it seems most likely she was abducted as she left her apt. for work on a Tuesday morning ~7:30AM and her car was abandoned ~Noon the same day @ an apartment complex nearby.

So...if he were here, Captain Obvious ropeller: might point out the potential for construction debris pick-up to intersect w/ the Kesse case on the morning she was abducted. Mention that to request if anyone learns the details of any POI in Ocasio's case and potential routine schedule they might follow...or ability to get the business name so we can pull that string further I would appreciate the help.

OK...back to Ocasio!