FL - Tracy Ocasio, 27, Orlando/Ocoee, 27 May 2009 - #1

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I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. I was just trying to understand what the alter ego was all about.
 
The orlando news reported that her car was found with both the front and passenger seats leaning forward. This would indicate to me that their were people in the back of the car that needed to get out? I think there is a whole group involved with Tracy and jennifer's disapearanc. I think O. George was 1 of them and the group turned on him.
 
So here is my theory. Jimmy Hataway is not the only person involved in this crime. The car was found with both drive seat and passenger seat leaning forward. This tells me there were people in the back seat that needed to get out. I know this is far fetched and I have nothing to base it on really, but I think the group was kidnapping women and holding them in a secret underground place. I believe I read that Jimmy hataway was found to be into the dark arts and those people are usually connected to other’s like themselves. I think they plan these attacks. I think they kidnapped Jennifer also thus the morning abduction. Perhaps they are keeping the girls in a secret place and are using then in their world of dark arts. I think Chris George wanted out, or found out more than he liked and the group killed him. I think this why they can’t find a body. O.K. that was a lot of “I thinks”, but there you go.
 
warbuckle said:
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. I was just trying to understand what the alter ego was all about.
Click to expand...
His friend said he could do a great impression of Darth Vader's voice so I am guessing this was the reason for the Vader. No real hidden meaning, but a "talent" of sorts.

I would venture a guess the McGirth would have to do with his male anatomy. Either he is small and this feeds his ego or else he is bragging. He is all about power and control, imo.
 
ITA that JVH likely never realized how quickly Tracy would be missed--and searched for. Since cadaver dogs never hit in or anywhere around her car (or his home), after she was lured somewhere w/in this 11 mi range, presumably some other method or means was used for transporting (sorry distressing to even type). If more than one individual was involved then while LE was being called and as they located Tracy's car she could conceivably have still been alive eg held somewhere. Maybe JVH wasn't involved in her disposal at all, despite his resume maybe that wasn't his role (?)

Whether or not her actual equipment (cell) is recovered, can't LE get virtually everything else (except prints of course) from data and Verizon? I figure mother's call at 8:30 am is what prompted JVH to toss purse and contents into a dumpster in the area, as a guess.

As I wrote bond, there are limited explanations IMO for what Hataway and at least two other men were really doing when found by police near George's car out "looking for their friend." One, we know, was Tyler Watters who was interviewed later by police. Who else was there? Were there 3 other men, or three total? Were all the men id'd (only JVH & Watters named in articles I read). While still believing Hataway was likely solely responsible (for George, as well as Tracy) I'd first figured he must have brought these other men along as some sort of ruse (creating alibi for himself, covering his tracks eg). The more I've thought about it tho I'm apt to believe everyone who was present and encountered by police could likely be involved, not buying the "we're all just out here looking for our poor missing friend" story. Think police very possibly had stumbled upon enactment ie staging of George cover-up, by those complicit in at least George but also quite possibly Ocasio and Kesse disappearances. Hutto brother/s? Toole? Who else? Off to find these arrest records...

:parrot:
 
I agree with you. We have 3 cars left and 3 people missing. JK car left near her house and no keys or cell found., CG car left and these guys spotted coming out of the woods., Tracy car left, no keys or cell near Hataway and toole's house. I wish they had found some DNA or something in Jennifer's car to link one of these guys.
 
For some reason, I wouldn't be looking near his house to find her. I would be looking in the NE quadrant inside the mapped circle. While he drove the car back to near his house, I don't think she was with him. I think he gained control of her soon after leaving the bar.

If she was driving, how did he gain the control? Did he force her to pull over or did he start out in the driver's seat? Did the car show any signs of a struggle or an accident? Was the car tested for soil samples which could possibly be matched to Jennifer's car or O. George's?

As far as the seats being forward, he could have searched her car to find anything he could steal or maybe her cell phone was knocked out of her hands and had gone under the seat. I don't think anyone else was involved at least with her disappearance.
 
kiki the parrot said:
ITA that JVH likely never realized how quickly Tracy would be missed--and searched for. Since cadaver dogs never hit in or anywhere around her car (or his home), after she was lured somewhere w/in this 11 mi range, presumably some other method or means was used for transporting (sorry distressing to even type). If more than one individual was involved then while LE was being called and as they located Tracy's car she could conceivably have still been alive eg held somewhere. Maybe JVH wasn't involved in a disposal at all, despite his resume maybe that wasn't his role (?)

Whether or not her actual equipment (cell) is recovered, can't LE get virtually everything else (except prints of course) from data and Verizon? I figure mother's call at 8:30 am is what prompted JVH to toss purse and contents into a dumpster in the area, as a guess.

As I wrote bond, there are limited explanations IMO for what Hataway and at least two other men were really doing when found by police near George's car out "looking for their friend." One, we know, was Tyler Watters who was interviewed later by police. Who else was there? Were there 3 other men, or three total? Were all the men id'd (only JVH & Watters named in articles I read). While still believing Hataway was likely solely responsible (for George, as well as Tracy) I'd first figured he must have brought these other men along as some sort of ruse (creating alibi for himself, covering his tracks eg). The more I've thought about it tho I'm apt to believe everyone who was present and encountered by police could likely be involved, not buying the "we're all just out here looking for our poor missing friend" story. Think police very possibly had stumbled upon enactment ie staging of George cover-up, by those complicit in at least George but also quite possibly Ocasio and Kesse disappearances. Hutto brother/s? Toole? Does someone have these arrest records handy...?

:parrot:
Click to expand...

I hafta admit the picture you've painted is certainly plausible, Kiki. Esp. re: individuals having a role to play...as in one person (e.g. JVH) deals w/ the car, one person deals with the victim (whether kidnapped or otherwise), etc. The obvious problem that creates for us is - without cell records of other potential accomplices - we can just forget about the ~11mile radius. IOW...JVH xfers victim to a waiting accomplice @ location 'A', then, continues on to leave the car @ location 'B" whilst the accomplice drives away for however-long and @ whatever-speed ...Grrrrrr.

I'm afraid we're gonna have some huge holes here for awhile...at least until someone is charged & Sunshine kicks in.

Changing topics...

ATL, Chesterp, Facevalue, BLife: Any local I'm missing? Any of you on Verizon?
 
Seriously frustrated about OGeorge... who not only was not missed nor reported by even his closest family but evidently knew way too much for his own health. :( He never knew about Tracy though so the question is what did he know? The answer would seem to imply there was perhaps a pattern here. George's own record consists primarily of grand theft, burglary, trafficking in stolen property etc, thus I'm not convinced he'd ever necessarily been involved in a prospective kidnap, SA and/or murder "ring." But which may well have been his undoing.

FL- Onda "Chris" George Last Seen Feb 12 2009 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
:parrot:
 
SeriouslySearching said:
For some reason, I wouldn't be looking near his house to find her. I would be looking in the NE quadrant inside the mapped circle. While he drove the car back to near his house, I don't think she was with him. I think he gained control of her soon after leaving the bar.

If she was driving, how did he gain the control? Did he force her to pull over or did he start out in the driver's seat? Did the car show any signs of a struggle or an accident? Was the car tested for soil samples which could possibly be matched to Jennifer's car or O. George's?

As far as the seats being forward, he could have searched her car to find anything he could steal or maybe her cell phone was knocked out of her hands and had gone under the seat. I don't think anyone else was involved at least with her disappearance.
Click to expand...
*bold by me*

ITTA re: gaining control early. Wanna know if fingerprints, seat & mirror position, etc. in the car put him in the driver's seat.

Could've been as simple as..."You've had too much to drink...I'll drive". Could've been more complicated...GBH (seems less likely, IMHO).
Although, it could've also been a scene as described by the girl that came forward...a hug as Ocasio drops him off turns into an abduction...(seems less likely, IMHO).

Similar thinking about reasons why the seats would be pushed forward:
a) exiting rear seat passengers
b) removing something large from the back seat (less likely, IMHO)
c) looking for personal belongings (e.g. purse, phone, etc. to get rid of)
 
BondJamesBond said:
I hafta admit the picture you've painted is certainly plausible, Kiki. Esp. re: individuals having a role to play...as in one person (e.g. JVH) deals w/ the car, one person deals with the victim (whether kidnapped or otherwise), etc. The obvious problem that creates for us is - without cell records of other potential accomplices - we can just forget about the ~11mile radius. IOW...JVH xfers victim to a waiting accomplice @ location 'A', then, continues on to leave the car @ location 'B" whilst the accomplice drives away for however-long and @ whatever-speed ...Grrrrrr.

I'm afraid we're gonna have some huge holes here for awhile...at least until someone is charged & Sunshine kicks in.

Changing topics...

ATL, Chesterp, Facevalue, BLife: Any local I'm missing? Any of you on Verizon?
Click to expand...

(bbm) So true bjb... :banghead: But even if JVH's first role was to initially lure her, under false pretenses eg, to this as yet unknown location where she was victimized, whether he participated further or not the radius is still applicable or useful inasfar as it narrows down how far he could have initially traveled w her--ie how far from Taproom eg--that scene could be, correct? :waitasec:

:parrot:
 
Lord knows where, or on what pretenses, JVH may have persuaded Tracy to drive him somewhere... Not assuming anything about either the direction in which they headed from Taproom, nor the circumstances under which he may have lured Tracy. Not buying that they headed in the direction of his house any more than the "bad drugs" story.

:parrot:
 
BondJamesBond said:
*bold by me*

ITTA re: gaining control early. Wanna know if fingerprints, seat & mirror position, etc. in the car put him in the driver's seat.

Could've been as simple as..."You've had too much to drink...I'll drive". Could've been more complicated...GBH (seems less likely, IMHO).
Although, it could've also been a scene as described by the girl that came forward...a hug as Ocasio drops him off turns into an abduction...(seems less likely, IMHO).

Similar thinking about reasons why the seats would be pushed forward:
a) exiting rear seat passengers
b) removing something large from the back seat (less likely, IMHO)
c) looking for personal belongings (e.g. purse, phone, etc. to get rid of)
Click to expand...
Didn't he say early on that she went into his house with him or something? Or he invited her in? What exactly did he say?
 
Well we don't even know if she knew where he lived so he might have taken her to someone else's place and she thought it was his.
 
FaceValue said:
As well, Bond - do we have a way to determine the tower(s) right by where the car was found? This would be interesting information.
Click to expand...
*snipped*

This is the reason I keep iterating the question 'bout anyone local being a Verizon customer.

Depending on the model phone, you can actually obtain the CID# that services a geographical area by setting your phone to display this information and driving through the area of interest (e.g. JVH's house, location where the car was abandoned) as well as establishing where the CID#'s change - that is where the antenna handoffs and tower handoffs occur.

FaceValue this is one of those things that might fit the job description you mentioned, IYKWIM.

By establishing where the CID boundaries are we can determine, for example, if the car & the house are indeed serviced by the same antenna and are therefore indistinguishable by ping data.

That doesn't take us very far...but...it is something that can be done.
 
Scary thing to me is that he kinda looks like a nice guys when he is smiling, but there is a picture on Blinks website of him in the backseat of a car. He has this horrible look in his eyes and he is showing his arm all bandaged up and it looks like scratches or something. I don't think I am suppose to link but if you need directions to the picture you can PM me.
 
warbuckle said:
Well we don't even know if she knew where he lived so he might have taken her to someone else's place and she thought it was his.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I was thinking, too. I think there could be some truth in what he said early on which is why I am trying to find it.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Didn't he say early on that she went into his house with him or something? Or he invited her in? What exactly did he say?
Click to expand...

warbuckle said:
Well we don't even know if she knew where he lived so he might have taken her to someone else's place and she thought it was his.
Click to expand...

Interesting comment, WB. :waitasec: Also another potential set-up for JVH to say..."easier for me to drive since you don't know where my place is..." putting him in the driver's seat @ the Tap Room.

Also begs the question of how JVH arrived @ the Tap Room. IOW...never sourced, but, alleged report that JVH was spotted buying beer earlier that evening...and he shows up @ the Tap Room. Someone else dropped him off? Rode w/ someone else that was there (e.g. Toole there?)? I don't recall this detail being reported. Anyone?

It was the playoffs, right? So, pretty easily established by anyone that Tracy was going to be @ the Tap Room, right?

Other 'players' have established alibis?
  • Toole?
  • Hutton bro's
  • Hutton sis's
  • Watters (sp?)
Some questions perhaps the locals can get the answers to in their travels.
 
'Hataway told investigators Ocasio gave him a ride home from the bar, where witnesses saw them kissing that night. When they arrived at his house in the 100 block of Lyle Street in Ocoee, she wanted to smoke marijuana with him, Hataway told investigators.

Hataway told police he showed her the drugs he had, but she didn't like them and left. However, records show that Ocasio's cell phone was near Hataway's home about 8:30 that morning.'

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-hataway-person-interest-ocasio-060409,0,1953691.story

:parrot:
 
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