Mitigating Factor:Could Casey Have Post-Partum Psychosis?

[BonKai]

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If nothing else....the defense it setting up the mitigation strategy to argue PPD.

PPD after 2 1/2 years (Caylee's age)? Really? :waitasec:

 

[skygirl]

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PPD after 2 1/2 years (Caylee's age)? Really? :waitasec:

I posted something similar about this in the "in her shoes" thread.

In some cases when women have PPD, yes typically it only lasts a few months. BUT if there are other stressors that are effecting the individual and they never really get 'better' the ppd will turn into depression. I've consulted a number of therapists (phd's) and even MD's about this. And it makes since to them, but offically there is no DSM diagnosis for this very thing, which I know, from personal experience, happens to a some women.

Even women who have the means to see someone professionally for this condition. You can't make it go away, and in KC's case, I believe she had a few of these 'stressors' that didn't help her situation. Imagine living under the rule of CA, and not, most likely even wanting to keep Caylee. This was a position, I think she was forced into and was constantly being scruitinized by the very person who probably told her it was all going to be okay.

Just fyi, I also think KC is responsible for her own actions. And the evidence so far leads to her. Jmho. But if her defence is going down this road for a mitigating factor, I'm a believer.

 

[JBean]

For PP Psychosis amd PP depression discussion.

 

[Reagan]

Thanks JBean! It's easy to lose track as to which thread your posting in.. so thanks for getting me back on track.

I'm going to repost my reply to sleutherontheside here:

For the sake of discussion, I think the "miscarriage" happened Feb 14th 2007, per Annie D's interview.
I wonder when KC's supposed break down happened, where she wanted to commit herself but after talking to CA, all was "okay".

I wonder where we would be today if she had received the help she needed.

Also.. I just listened to AD's interview again a few days ago, but I cannot recall when KC was asking for help cause she felt like she was losing it. Anyone know?

 

[chefmom]

I feel that without a doubt there is something "wrong" with KC. I think it goes much deeper and much further back than post-partum issues however. KC is way too cunning and deceitful. She does what she clearly knows is wrong and innappropriate and is able to lie and cover up what she has done. If the A family never asked themselves what might be wrong with KC it is only because they didn't want to think that someone they had raised could have those problems. Sad. Had someone thought more about KC and her future, we might not be here today. Poor little Caylee! Merry Christmas, little one! As always, JMO.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think that the defense will offer any number of mitigating circumstances in this case. The mitigation team does not have to PROVE anything as they are only offering mitigating circumstances for the jury to consider. Unless I am totally wrong, and if so will be happy to say so if needed....mitigation is subjective. Just because a "factor" may be considered as successful in one case does not mean it must be considered in every case. PPD is very real and yes, it can go un diagnosed for a long time. It can also occur after a miscarriage or abortion. Hormones are hormones and can really impact ones behavior. I think that Mort is digging as deep as he can and likely documenting every case where someone referred to her pregnancy / alleged miscarriage / etc..... Let's remember the pregnancy test found NEAR the scene. We haven't seen anything to rule it out as hers.....have we???? If so I totally missed it. There is the curious comment by Cindy about "we can't lose another one". I am sure that it will come into play if it gets that far.......BUT it is up to the jury to determine if it is believable and if so, if it is enough to spare her life. I also have to wonder if her determination NOT to cave and plea or offer an alternative theory is a way to keep AL on the case. Once the DP if off the table...AL can go home. Her sole job is to mitigate, and serve as a required DP attorney not to defend. That job is held by the illustrious JB.

 

[21merc7]

I think that the defense will offer any number of mitigating circumstances in this case. The mitigation team does not have to PROVE anything as they are only offering mitigating circumstances for the jury to consider. Unless I am totally wrong, and if so will be happy to say so if needed....mitigation is subjective. Just because a "factor" may be considered as successful in one case does not mean it must be considered in every case. PPD is very real and yes, it can go un diagnosed for a long time. It can also occur after a miscarriage or abortion. Hormones are hormones and can really impact ones behavior. I think that Mort is digging as deep as he can and likely documenting every case where someone referred to her pregnancy / alleged miscarriage / etc..... Let's remember the pregnancy test found NEAR the scene. We haven't seen anything to rule it out as hers.....have we???? If so I totally missed it. There is the curious comment by Cindy about "we can't lose another one". I am sure that it will come into play if it gets that far.......BUT it is up to the jury to determine if it is believable and if so, if it is enough to spare her life. I also have to wonder if her determination NOT to cave and plea or offer an alternative theory is a way to keep AL on the case. Once the DP if off the table...AL can go home. Her sole job is to mitigate, and serve as a required DP attorney not to defend. That job is held by the illustrious JB.

You are correct that burden of proof is left to the State not defense, however, it is not that simple. The jury decides regardless, THEN, insufficiency comes into play in a normal trial. A DP trial appeals are automatic.

As far as undiagnosed mental illness, well, a lot of us have issues, many more difficult than other people, but we still did not kill our child. (Not everyone with PPD kills their child even if they think of it, they stop themselves, and I don't know about any possible abortion, but KC was past time for PPD. In other words, the jury will not buy it. PPD afflicted most likely do not go out and party and find new or several boyfriends, they just flip out.) Our issues may have been more difficult, more compound, whatever. I am not saying KC did not have issues, mostly fighting with Mom for control and inability to accept responsibility and move out on her own, and I felt sorry for her a while, but I realized, it is worse, so much worse, for others.

I am wondering how a jury will view whatever is presented. DP is not going off the table, trial is going forward with DP now. AL is in unless AL chooses to go, it is going forward. The only thing KC can do is plea to get DP to go away. I wonder if the team will get through to her to spare her life as you have questioned. (And, I think KC knows she can live in jail.) I don't know, in the state I live in it is rare for the person to plea and save themselves, even when they have given several different versions of confession.

Just hope any of that made sense.

P.S. I still think that if she is deemed death penalty Judge S will set aside. JMO.

 

[sleutherontheside]

You are correct that burden of proof is left to the State not defense, however, it is not that simple. The jury decides regardless, THEN, insufficiency comes into play in a normal trial. A DP trial appeals are automatic.

As far as undiagnosed mental illness, well, a lot of us have issues, many more difficult than other people, but we still did not kill our child. (Not everyone with PPD kills their child even if they think of it, they stop themselves, and I don't know about any possible abortion, but KC was past time for PPD. In other words, the jury will not buy it. PPD afflicted most likely do not go out and party and find new or several boyfriends, they just flip out.) Our issues may have been more difficult, more compound, whatever. I am not saying KC did not have issues, mostly fighting with Mom for control and inability to accept responsibility and move out on her own, and I felt sorry for her a while, but I realized, it is worse, so much worse, for others.

I am wondering how a jury will view whatever is presented. DP is not going off the table, trial is going forward with DP now. AL is in unless AL chooses to go, it is going forward. The only thing KC can do is plea to get DP to go away. I wonder if the team will get through to her to spare her life as you have questioned. I don't know, in the state I live in it is rare for the person to plea and save themselves, even when they have given several different versions of confession.

Just hope any of that made sense.

P.S. I still think that if she is deemed death penalty Judge S will set aside. JMO.

ITA with you. I hope it doesn't appear that I am in any way trying to excuse KC of her involvement based on potential mitigation.....or that I think that ANYTHING justifies murder. I am simply anticipating the "mitigating factors" that may be presented. PPD will be only one of them (IMO) and will be carefully enjoined with other "factors" including, but not limited to, dysfunctional family relationships, undiagnosed mental issues, alleged sexual or other abuse, lack of adequate family support systems.....etc The role CA played in Caylee's life will be dissected and used to "outline" the theory that CA considered "herself" as Caylee's primary caregiver. From what I have read about Cindy.....she not only has her own issues, but tucks them away in an effort to appear solid and normal. I have to wonder if KC was exhibiting symptoms of PPD and if Cindy dismissed them as KC wanting to pass on mothering duties. As far as a plea.....I don't rule out the possibility that it may happen in an 11th hour scenario. Likely??? NO. Possible....maybe.

 

[txsvicki]

I'd think that Casey will have to claim or have post partum psychosis instead of just depression in order to account for all the lies she told to police, friends, and family about the Universal job and the nanny (among many other lies). She couldn't have been very psychotic because when finally confronted she had to admit that she was lying. We also don't know if Casey was lying when she told the friend that she wanted to commit herself or if she ever even really talked to her mom about it. I'm anxious to hear what they say about all the lies in the defense.

 

[notthatsmart]

Well, I think PPD sounds like a pretty good defense and may be what happened here. However, you wouldn't notice it by the way the defense is acting. I think they are acting accordingly with someone who is innocent.



I don't see them steering toward PPD or insanity or anything. I think the State has a huge fight on their hands. Not stating anything as fact. This is just my opinion.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Well, I think PPD sounds like a pretty good defense and may be what happened here. However, you wouldn't notice it by the way the defense is acting. I think they are acting accordingly with someone who is innocent.



I don't see them steering toward PPD or insanity or anything. I think the State has a huge fight on their hands. Not stating anything as fact. This is just my opinion.

Well I don't consider it a defense becasue an innocent person won't use PPD as a defense if they are simultaneously arguing innocence. The PPD is strictly a mitigation factor to remove the DP.

At this point they are not steering toward anything because that would equate to their admission of guilt. This issue won't come into play until she is found guilty and they are in the penalty phase.

The State always has a huge fight on their hands because they are responsible for the burden of proof. BUT.....the defense has a bigger fight as they must find a way to discredit, disprove, or otherwise refute the evidence that will be presented. Let's leave this thread to discussing PPD as a mitigation factor and leave the coffin flies and SODDI to another thread.

 

[autumnlover]

The coldness, cunning and calculation KC has displayed prior to, during and after the crime does not indicate PPD, in my opinion. In addition, KC's antisocial behavior manifested itself way before she was ever pregnant. She was already an adroit liar and GA's depo lends credence to the fact that they were terrified KC would get "irritated" if confronted with any of her indiscretions. I believe her "illness" is that she's a textbook sociopath. However, I fully expect CA to be thrown under the bus during the penalty phase and the defense to claim KC suffers personality disorders as a result of a controlling, domineering mother and passive father.

 

[sleutherontheside]

The coldness, cunning and calculation KC has displayed prior to, during and after the crime does not indicate PPD, in my opinion. In addition, KC's antisocial behavior manifested itself way before she was ever pregnant. She was already an adroit liar and GA's depo lends credence to the fact that they were terrified KC would get "irritated" if confronted with any of her indiscretions. I believe her "illness" is that she's a textbook sociopath. However, I fully expect CA to be thrown under the bus during the penalty phase and the defense to claim KC suffers personality disorders as a result of a controlling, domineering mother and passive father.

IMO KC was NOT suffering PPD or PTSD or PPP..... I don't even think she had a miscarriage. BUT, given the severity of the DP...I think there will be an entire laundry list of proposed mitigating factors. They'll just argue them all until one sticks.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Wow, I forgot I had shared such a personal issue in this thread. As time has gone by, I still don't believe Casey was suffering from PPD or PPP. I don't see how the defense can present this as a possibility without medical records stating such. This is gonna be a hard one to make stick without records from an OB, GP or Psychiatrist.

 

[Jomo]

I'm curious about the psych evaluation that Judge Strickland had ordered during the bail hearing.

 

[Curious Me]

Yes, I do feel great compassion for women who have suffered from PPD. I also agree that some anti-depressants and certainly xanex can create wild changes in the mental state, and not always good.

Just tell me when Casey was going through all this suffering and tortured depression. As far as I know, she was having a darn good time until LE arrested her on a whim.

Caylee Marie Anthony needs some Justice.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think this type of speculation is why the defense wanted this dragged on and on and on. We're actually wondering if Casey, with all we know about her and this sordid situation, had ppd over her 2 year old daughter? This doesn't bode well for the future of this case if we're really considering this.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I can't see any signs of PPD, or any type of depression, in Casey's actions. She was described as very happy, by friends, after Caylee's death. We saw the pictures at Fusion and she did not looked depressed to me. Her parents, when asked, deny any signs of depression or other mental illness in Casey. The defense can try, but I really doubt any depression defense will work, before the verdict or prior to sentencing.

 

[Spangle]

There have been way to many cases of women claiming to be prego, and them lying for one reason or another... that this trick isn't a secret to the world. Considering her record of lying.. I don't think she could claim it and be believed about the miscarriage.

Not being snarky, just looking at the situation bluntly.

 

[hroark2112]

I think the only way PPD or PPP would come into play in this case is if the nanny had it. According to KC, she had nothing to do with the disappearance or death of Caylee, so her own personal demons, as difficult to handle as they might be, don't come into play in her defense.

Until the day she stands up in court and says "I did this, and I did it because..." none of this will matter legally. Even in the DP phase, should it get that far, KC will still be saying she was framed, and her own issues won't matter.

JMO