Discussion about Skyline, the groundskeeper, trucks - Looking for Clues

[i.b.nora]

Or incapacitated inside the school and moved at a later time.

IMHO, he was incapacitated inside the school, subdued for a short period of time, and moved after the parents left and while the children/teachers were touring the science fair exhibits (re: when they were in their small groups).

This comes closest to what I have been thinking. I think the initial 'confrontation' took place in the boys bathroom. I think the teacher was right when she supposedly said, 'maybe he is in the bathroom'. I think he was, I just don't think he ever came back from there.

 

[pdx]

or ones that make ya turn into a hippie. :angel:

You rang? :laugh:
I didn't really have anything to add.. seems like you guys sorted it all out. The directions thing was making me a little head-explody.

Personally, I don't think there is any way to 'sneak' out of that building. ANYone inside, looking out virtually any window, would have a tremendous long view of the grounds.

 

[Morag]

Yes, like a driveway, but you could do a "Y" turn around. In other words, you could pull in like you are heading toward the back of the school, then back up so you are parallel with Skyline, then go out the access road facing forward.

You might be able to do a Y turn with a big old truck on that narrow road, but I certainly couldn't! There seems to be no shoulder.

 

[liz b.]

TY Liz!

Ya see - this is one of the reasons why I've had a such a difficult time coming to any conclusion about who is involved in Kyron's disappearance.

LE themselves released (and seemingly endorsed, IMO) the info regarding a sighting of Kyron *at a late hour* by one of his classmates. Yet, it's just another vague statement reported by LE - what exactly does a *late hour* mean?

And then we have these reports of him being seen supposedly here, there, and everywhere - near his classroom, near the south door (the main entrance?), and then in the gym by the 7th grader.

I'm. hoping LE has been able to clarify the timeline of when he was seen & where & by whom.

I am enjoying trying to analyze Kyron's timeline inside the school. I * think * :

1. LE originally told us that Kyron was seen by his classroom door by a child at around 9 :00 am.

2. Kyron was supposedly seen by TP in a hallway near his classroom. Kyron was going away from his classroom at this point.

3. Kyron was seen in the gym by his friend,K a 7th grader. K. stated that Kyron was not with his SM, annd he was " laughing with his friends ". We do not have an exact time for this sighting, as K says that LE told him not to discuss it.

4. LE tells us that Kyron was seen by a child at " a late hour in the morning ", near to the main entrance of Skyline elementary.

And, according to LE, he was not seen after that.

ETA, " a late hour in the morning " is intended to be confusing IMO. Because time passes, I would take it to mean : after 9 :00 am....

All JMO

 

[Chili Fries]

If Terri wasn't involved and somebody attacked or abducted Kyron then I only see one motive...sexual assault. I see two main possibilities in that case:

- He was sexually assaulted in the school or outside it and murdered, then removed clandestinely. With all the people at the school that day (and there only being two sets of bathrooms), this scenario would likely have happened in the most remote area of the school...near the mechanical room or in that area outside. I also wonder if the school has a true basement (I know the bottom floor is sometimes called the basement). I went to a highschool that was built in the 1940s and there was a small, very creepy basement that many students at least didn't know about.

- He was lured to someone's car and taken away.

I think the probability of him being incapacitated by chloroform or something in the school then taken away is probably low because a sexual predator is going to want a live child (I know, that's awful to think about) and it would be tough to knock a child out without killing him. Maybe if the perp was a doctor but after following a lot of these cases it seems the sexual predator wants instant gratification and/or is presented the easy opportunity to grab a victim.

I'm about 80/20 on the possibility of Terri being responsible but I still give that 20% chance to a predator being the perp.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

If Terri wasn't involved and somebody attacked or abducted Kyron then I only see one motive...sexual assault. I see two main possibilities in that case:

- He was sexually assaulted in the school or outside it and murdered, then removed clandestinely. With all the people at the school that day (and there only being two sets of bathrooms), this scenario would likely have happened in the most remote area of the school...near the mechanical room or in that area outside. I also wonder if the school has a true basement (I know the bottom floor is sometimes called the basement). I went to a highschool that was built in the 1940s and there was a small, very creepy basement that many students at least didn't know about.

- He was lured to someone's car and taken away.

I think the probability of him being incapacitated by chloroform or something in the school then taken away is probably low because a sexual predator is going to want a live child (I know, that's awful to think about) and it would be tough to knock a child out without killing him. Maybe if the perp was a doctor but after following a lot of these cases it seems the sexual predator wants instant gratification and/or is presented the easy opportunity to grab a victim.

I'm about 80/20 on the possibility of Terri being responsible but I still give that 20% chance to a predator being the perp.

Quote
He was sexually assaulted in the school or outside it and murdered, then removed clandestinely. With all the people at the school that day (and there only being two sets of bathrooms), this scenario would likely have happened in the most remote area of the school...near the mechanical room or in that area outside.


I'm starting to believe this also he was assaulted near or in the mechanical room or the some woods near the school or he was lured to the car and taken away.

 

[BeanE]

I am enjoying trying to analyze Kyron's timeline inside the school. I * think * :

1. LE originally told us that Kyron was seen by his classroom door by a child at around 9 :00 am.

2. Kyron was supposedly seen by TP in a hallway near his classroom. Kyron was going away from his classroom at this point.

3. Kyron was seen in the gym by his friend,K a 7th grader. K. stated that Kyron was not with his SM, annd he was " laughing with his friends ". We do not have an exact time for this sighting, as K says that LE told him not to discuss it.

4. LE tells us that Kyron was seen by a child at " a late hour in the morning ", near to the main entrance of Skyline elementary.

And, according to LE, he was not seen after that.

ETA, " a late hour in the morning " is intended to be confusing IMO. Because time passes, I would take it to mean : after 9 :00 am....

All JMO

IIRC:

- Staton says later hour of the morning at the south entrance (main entrance) by child interviewed by LE that morning. Shortly after the presser corrects that from later morning to 9am.

- TP says approx 8:45. Says Kyron said he was going to look at an electric project. Doesn't say Kyron moved or headed in any direction. TP went downstairs.

- K the 7th grader saw Kyron in the gym with friends. No time given.

- Gina Zimmerman saw Kyron in classroom with Terri getting his pic taken at 8:15

- Teacher (Miss Porter) saw Kyron in his classroom. I don't think a time was given on this one.

- I think the 12 or 13 yr old girl who was his reading buddy saw him that morning with no time given.

 

[BeanE]

If Terri wasn't involved and somebody attacked or abducted Kyron then I only see one motive...sexual assault. I see two main possibilities in that case:

- He was sexually assaulted in the school or outside it and murdered, then removed clandestinely. With all the people at the school that day (and there only being two sets of bathrooms), this scenario would likely have happened in the most remote area of the school...near the mechanical room or in that area outside. I also wonder if the school has a true basement (I know the bottom floor is sometimes called the basement). I went to a highschool that was built in the 1940s and there was a small, very creepy basement that many students at least didn't know about.

- He was lured to someone's car and taken away.

I think the probability of him being incapacitated by chloroform or something in the school then taken away is probably low because a sexual predator is going to want a live child (I know, that's awful to think about) and it would be tough to knock a child out without killing him. Maybe if the perp was a doctor but after following a lot of these cases it seems the sexual predator wants instant gratification and/or is presented the easy opportunity to grab a victim.

I'm about 80/20 on the possibility of Terri being responsible but I still give that 20% chance to a predator being the perp.

BBM. I don't have any statistics, but it seems to me a lot of them don't give a d**n if the child is dead or alive. After all, a lot of the little children are murdered during the sexual assault, either from being beaten, or from the damage from the sexual assault itself. They are dead before the predator is done with the sexual torment.

:furious: :furious: :furious:

 

[grandmaj]

If you view the video there are some good shots of the GK truck.

The groundskeeper truck is not a club cab. It has a rack in the back window and he would have had a trailer attached. When you take the mower off you wouldn't remove the trailer. In fact there is a shot of that in this video.

Look at this video. His truck also has five lines of lettering on the door. You cant see both doors but I have never seen a City truck that didn't have lettering exactly the same on both sides, or the City Seal on both sides.

Someone would be very confused to to mistake Kaine's truck with a non-club Ford 250 super duty with a wire rack window, and good sized lettering on the sides IMO. Let alone a truck with the trailer attached. If you look closely at the windows of this truck they are shaped differently than Kaine's truck and Kaine's truck has two windows on each side.

I'm not convinced at all that someone confused Kaine's truck with this one.

http://www.kval.com/news/100632889.html?tab=video

 

[liz b.]

IIRC:

- Staton says later hour of the morning at the south entrance (main entrance) by child interviewed by LE that morning. Shortly after the presser corrects that from later morning to 9am.

- TP says approx 8:45. Says Kyron said he was going to look at an electric project. Doesn't say Kyron moved or headed in any direction. TP went downstairs.

- K the 7th grader saw Kyron in the gym with friends. No time given.

- Gina Zimmerman saw Kyron in classroom with Terri getting his pic taken at 8:15

- Teacher (Miss Porten ) saw Kyron in his classroom. I don't think a time was given on this one.

- I think the 12 or 13 yr old girl who was his reading buddy saw him that morning with no time given.

Thanks so much BeanE, this is a great help. Did TP say that he passed Kyron in the hallway ? I have no specific time for Kyron to be in the gym, but IIRC, K said that TH was not with Kyron.So, I'm going with the gym coming after TP saw him... I think of Kyron being in motion, from the area near his classroom door to being seen by the main entrance to the school. But, the times fit.That TP saw Kyron sometime around 8 :45, and Kyron finally being seen at the main entrance at or possibly shortly after 9 :00. Thanks for the extra information.

All JMO

 

[BeanE]

If you view the video there are some good shots of the GK truck.

The groundskeeper truck is not a club cab. It has a rack in the back window and he would have had a trailer attached. When you take the mower off you wouldn't remove the trailer. In fact there is a shot of that in this video.

Look at this video. His truck also has five lines of lettering on the door. You cant see both doors but I have never seen a City truck that didn't have lettering exactly the same on both sides, or the City Seal on both sides.

Someone would be very confused to to mistake Kaine's truck with a non-club Ford 250 super duty with a wire rack window, and good sized lettering on the sides IMO. Let alone a truck with the trailer attached. If you look closely at the windows of this truck they are shaped differently than Kaine's truck and Kaine's truck has two windows on each side.

I'm not convinced at all that someone confused Kaine's truck with this one.

http://www.kval.com/news/100632889.html?tab=video

I identify trucks by color. Cars too, but those I classify as 'big' and 'small' as well. I can't even tell a van from a SUV. They all go in the 'van' category.

I'd be a terrible vehicle witness.

 

[gwenabob]

You might be able to do a Y turn with a big old truck on that narrow road, but I certainly couldn't! There seems to be no shoulder.

The Y turn would be on the paved track around the soccer field, not the access road. If you went off a little on the track, big deal. Just grass.

 

[Morag]

If you view the video there are some good shots of the GK truck.

The groundskeeper truck is not a club cab. It has a rack in the back window and he would have had a trailer attached. When you take the mower off you wouldn't remove the trailer. In fact there is a shot of that in this video.

Look at this video. His truck also has five lines of lettering on the door. You cant see both doors but I have never seen a City truck that didn't have lettering exactly the same on both sides, or the City Seal on both sides.

Someone would be very confused to to mistake Kaine's truck with a non-club Ford 250 super duty with a wire rack window, and good sized lettering on the sides IMO. Let alone a truck with the trailer attached. If you look closely at the windows of this truck they are shaped differently than Kaine's truck and Kaine's truck has two windows on each side.

I'm not convinced at all that someone confused Kaine's truck with this one.

http://www.kval.com/news/100632889.html?tab=video

Someone who saw a truck would not see it from the side, just from the back, if they were turning right into the school. They would just see it as a white truck. Someone turning left into the school would have seen it from the side, but might not have registered anything other than the color. And apparently the witness or witnesses didn't come up with- or weren't asked about it-the sightings until a couple of months later.
At any rate, I can't see how moving the truck would make disappearing Kyron any easier or less noticeable than just having him come out the East door and get into the truck. My head, she spins....

 

[grandmaj]

I think if police interviewed someone and they couldn't identify the white truck and give more information about it than it was a white truck, that LE would assist the person in remembering more. IMO since they have zoned in on Kaine's truck they must have more than a white truck.

Police Investigators are trained to ask questions. Did you see any stickers on the truck, did you see any writing on the truck, what did the wheels look like, how many doors did the truck have? Did you see anyone in the truck? Did you see anything in the back of the truck?

I would be shocked in a child disappearance case, if LE didn't ask those sorts of questions to assist them in identifying a good description of the possible white truck. MOO

 

[Morag]

The Y turn would be on the paved track around the soccer field, not the access road. If you went off a little on the track, big deal. Just grass.

I don't know where the chain is, so I went to Bing and Google maps. Still couldn't figure out where it is, but the google earth map seems to show a white truck parked on the access road!

 

[gwenabob]

I don't know where the chain is, so I went to Bing and Google maps. Still couldn't figure out where it is, but the google earth map seems to show a white truck parked on the access road!

There is a chain at the end of the access road where it meets the paved track that winds around the field.

 

[BeanE]

Thanks so much BeanE, this is a great help. Did TP say that he passed Kyron in the hallway ? I have no specific time for Kyron to be in the gym, but IIRC, K said that TH was not with Kyron.So, I'm going with the gym coming after TP saw him... I think of Kyron being in motion, from the area near his classroom door to being seen by the main entrance to the school. But, the times fit.That TP saw Kyron sometime around 8 :45, and Kyron finally being seen at the main entrance at or possibly shortly after 9 :00. Thanks for the extra information.

All JMO

Here ya go. Thank you for bringing it up. I'd forgotten the way TP worded it. He says Kyron 'walked by the hallway'. I need to noodle on that with the pic of the classroom and hallway in mind. Right now I don't know what he meant.

June 9 - Classmate TP

There were two video interviews of TP. Both are linked below, and transcriptions of TP are included.

Video transcription of TP:

- "I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never did see him after that."

- "And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Miss Porter's like it's alright calm down, calm down she's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she's like alright I'm gonna leave and she left."

Video: http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/in...-of-kyron-horman/2091168039/?icid=VIDURVNWS08

==============================================

Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Note: Reporter says TP saw Kyron around 8:45am:

Article: http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

Video: http://www.kptv.com/video/23842579/index.html

Video transcription:

TP: "And he walked by the hallway and I'm like, Hi, Kyron, and he's like, Hi. I'm gonna go see this cool one. Electric one. And I'm like, Alright, bye. And that's the last time I saw him. He never did make it back to class."

==============================================

KOIN has consolidated the majority of their articles, and most articles are no longer available. Fortunately, I'd posted this article in Kyron's media thread when it was published, so we have a record of it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Kyron Horman - Portland, Oregon MEDIA AND IMAGES LINKS


Horman's Desk Mate Says Substitute Noticed Him Missing
Last Update: 6/09 11:30 pm

T says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother leave the school without Kyron.

 

[Kimster]

There is a chain at the end of the access road where it meets the paved track that winds around the field.

Where the track meets the access road.

 

[sorrell skye]

I just wanted to thank everyone who's participating in this discussion. I am finding it very informative and helpful. Very pleasant too.

:blowkiss:

I agree BeanE - this has been a very enjoyable thread to participate in.

TY to everyone!

 

[BeanE]

Why do you all think LE showed the truck in two different spots? I don't know what to make of that.

Two different witnesses said they saw it in two different spots is the easy explanation, but I don't know.

ETA: LE/DA flier from Aug 11 for reference:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf