NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10

[Virgogalsue]

So many chances for someone to notice something.....poor baby.

GOOD GOD! I have never heard about this many reports! WHAT does it actually TAKE????

I think NC needs an independant child advocate department!!!!!!:banghead:

 

[Peliman]

I'm a lurker but this story has me coming out of my quiet .....

This sounds totally crazy - but could the woodchipper angle be somewhat of a ploy by LE to distract AB ? Not that I am saying it's all made up - not at all -- but what if ----

If LE knew from the get go that the B's were trying to deceive them and throw them off track with that ransom note - then maybe when the dogs hit on the woodchipper - maybe LE knew it wasn't a good hit but went with it just to make sure and to be thorough and because they had no better leads AND in part -- to deceive the deceivers ?? Play them at their own game - so to speak. Let them think that LE is way off track - like they intended to do with the ransom note. Then --- they leave AB on the loose - keep SM locked up - and see if he leads them to the answers they are seeking - or at least gives them a clue. He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree - so why not LE play him (or both of them) and have him think that they are way off track ? As a result - LE has AB thinking he's so smart - and waits and sees if he slips up - such as saying something incriminating or going to check on the body, etc..... he'll either get paranoid and mess up or get big headed and let his guard down.......if he thinks he's outsmarted/fooled LE.
When you think about how this has all unfolded --- there was outstanding warrants on both SM & AB - but LE sure did act quickly to lock up SM --- as in they got those two apart very quickly -- must have been a reason for wanting them in different places (not both in jail) and if SM is the dominant one - they'd go after the weaker one to break down or trip up. So -- LE keeps SM locked up and works on breaking down AB - which might be why they have one sheriff saying he belives AB and one saying that he doesn't...
might be a far fetched thought - but this whole story is twisted and weird - and sad.

Hello Sneech and welcome to websleuths and there's no telling what LE might do but I think after the initial dog hits they had an obligation to really search every hit before determining it to be a false positive (for lack of better words) Just my opinion and opinions can vary when it comes to dog searches because it's a complex subject.

I like the way they got separated immediately. They'll question both of them and see if they both tell the same stories and facts. It was an excellent move on LE's part. IMO

good post

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

So, these two were definitely NOT strangers to LE. More than a dozen times? C'mon now - this is really pushing the envelope. LE gets more than a dozen calls, DSS is called at least twice and once by school officials (school calls are taken more seriously), EB is charged with communicating threats, that woman/neighbor Tanya confronted this beast and said she and the neighborhood kids witnessed the abuse EB metted out. EB's own daughter reported her for identity theft (in getting utilities).

WHAT IN THE GOOD LORD'S NAME WAS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET SOMEONE TO SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE HERE?????

What bothers me even more is that this is one we know of - how many more are out there that we DON'T hear about??

It appears there were sooooo many opportunities to intervene and yet no agency ever did. Now we see the results. When will we ever get it right?

 

[pinkpuddytat]

I'm a lurker but this story has me coming out of my quiet .....

This sounds totally crazy - but could the woodchipper angle be somewhat of a ploy by LE to distract AB ? Not that I am saying it's all made up - not at all -- but what if ----

If LE knew from the get go that the B's were trying to deceive them and throw them off track with that ransom note - then maybe when the dogs hit on the woodchipper - maybe LE knew it wasn't a good hit but went with it just to make sure and to be thorough and because they had no better leads AND in part -- to deceive the deceivers ?? Play them at their own game - so to speak. Let them think that LE is way off track - like they intended to do with the ransom note. Then --- they leave AB on the loose - keep SM locked up - and see if he leads them to the answers they are seeking - or at least gives them a clue. He doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree - so why not LE play him (or both of them) and have him think that they are way off track ? As a result - LE has AB thinking he's so smart - and waits and sees if he slips up - such as saying something incriminating or going to check on the body, etc..... he'll either get paranoid and mess up or get big headed and let his guard down.......if he thinks he's outsmarted/fooled LE.
When you think about how this has all unfolded --- there was outstanding warrants on both SM & AB - but LE sure did act quickly to lock up SM --- as in they got those two apart very quickly -- must have been a reason for wanting them in different places (not both in jail) and if SM is the dominant one - they'd go after the weaker one to break down or trip up. So -- LE keeps SM locked up and works on breaking down AB - which might be why they have one sheriff saying he belives AB and one saying that he doesn't...
might be a far fetched thought - but this whole story is twisted and weird - and sad.

I don't think LE ever believed or even implied (to anyone) that they thought there was a possibility Zahra's body had been put throught the wood chipper. I think that was all wild speculation by WSers. If her entire body had actually been run through a wood chipper, the dogs would have been going absolutely nuts. Wood chippers aren't designed to prevent small particles from being sprayed all over the place. They aren't like a giant HEPA-filter vacuum cleaner with blades. Stand next to a wood chipper that's sucking branches through and you'll get a powerful smell of wood, because tiny wood particles are being sprayed into the air as the chunks of chipped wood fly out of the chipper and land loosely in a truck bed or other open container. There is residue all over the chipper and the truck -- not particularly noticeable to humans, but millions of times the amount it would take a trained dog to alert on.

They may have thought the hit on the wood chipper indicated it could have been used to dispose of clothes, blankets, cleaning rags, etc that were somehow associated with Zahra's injury or death, and maybe even that there was a poorly thought-out attempt to get rid of the prosthesis by putting it through the chipper along with a big load of branches. But her body? There was never any such implication. And someone who has worked with wood chippers would certainly know that it would be an insane way to try to dispose of a body that police would end up searching for.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I wonder if all those times that LE was called did they actually see her? Was she told to "stay put"? I hurts my heart to think of what this child must have thought of herself. How she must have suffered in silence, longing for her grammy back in Australia.

We have to change this system. Its not working, its not even helping. There has to be a better way. These are our children, our future and they are suffering at the hands of real monsters.

 

[wfgodot]

I just ran some basic demographics on Hickory because I'm not real familiar with the area. I find it interesting to note that it's nearly HALF rental properties. The graduation rate is 79% with only 28% of graduates attaining higher education. Close to 15% below the poverty level with a per capita income of $23k.

I think this speaks volumes as to the type(s) of people living in this area. It doesn't surprise me that we have tangled webs of family relationships and lots of domestic issue / family violence. Sadly it's par for the course.

It also, I think, speaks volumes about the quantity and quality of social services available in the area, be it by the schools, by LE, or by DSS, each of these agencies being typically underfunded in the face of massive challenges.

 

[tlcya]

I just ran some basic demographics on Hickory because I'm not real familiar with the area. I find it interesting to note that it's nearly HALF rental properties. The graduation rate is 79% with only 28% of graduates attaining higher education. Close to 15% below the poverty level with a per capita income of $23k.

I think this speaks volumes as to the type(s) of people living in this area. It doesn't surprise me that we have tangled webs of family relationships and lots of domestic issue / family violence. Sadly it's par for the course.

did you just drive through my neighborhood?

 

[shefner]

This case has gotten so huge....and confusing. I am wondering what exactly the stepmom has told LE. Its obvious they know more than they are letting on....

And what has dad said? Cops say he is totally cooperative but can't rule him out as a suspect?! Makes no sense....

 

[bellyup]

I don't think LE ever believed or even implied (to anyone) that they thought there was a possibility Zahra's body had been put throught the wood chipper. I think that was all wild speculation by WSers. If her entire body had actually been run through a wood chipper, the dogs would have been going absolutely nuts. Wood chippers aren't designed to prevent small particles from being sprayed all over the place. They aren't like a giant HEPA-filter vacuum cleaner with blades. Stand next to a wood chipper that's sucking branches through and you'll get a powerful smell of wood, because tiny wood particles are being sprayed into the air as the chunks of chipped wood fly out of the chipper and land loosely in a truck bed or other open container. There is residue all over the chipper and the truck -- not particularly noticeable to humans, but millions of times the amount it would take a trained dog to alert on.

They may have thought the hit on the wood chipper indicated it could have been used to dispose of clothes, blankets, cleaning rags, etc that were somehow associated with Zahra's injury or death, and maybe even that there was a poorly thought-out attempt to get rid of the prosthesis by putting it through the chipper along with a big load of branches. But her body? There was never any such implication. And someone who has worked with wood chippers would certainly know that it would be an insane way to try to dispose of a body that police would end up searching for.

I somewhat disagree. Though, I never thought Zhara was put through the wood chipper for many of the same reasons you state (there would just be so much OBVIOUS evidence). However, it was done in another case and it took LE quite a long time to figure out what had been done.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Although I'm sure LE has tactics they use to gain information, I can't see them conducting these huge searches the last couple days, using so many resources, just to throw off EB and AB that they are not "onto them". I think they had concrete reasons to search those places.

Not to mention commandeering a major piece of equipment belonging to a small business which employs at least a few people. It's a big deal to put people out of work, even for a few days. And a large wood chipper would normally be getting very heavy use by a landscape maintenance company at this time of year.

 

[tlcya]

I think many people would be shocked as to what the price tag was on those searches in Burke, jobsite area. Draining the pond alone, all the and county city manpower there, the overtime.

I agree LE is trying to seperarted AB abd EB but as to a false search as a diversion. Nah. At some point the Sheriffs dept is acountable for his expenditures. He could never satisfactorily explain an expenditure like the past two days if it were all a ruse.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Well, EB has lawyered up so I don't think they're getting much from her at all. And AB? First he's cooperating, next he's not, then he's being sincere, then they don't believe him.

I think that's why he's out - they're just sitting back and watching and waiting. He's gonna mess up.

Plus what are all the other landlords telling them? My God they moved almost constantly. Its like little Zahra was a ghost - never being seen or heard. They have only been here 2 years. I still say this escalated to where they were all just spinning out of control and our dear sweet angel was stuck in the middle with a big ole bullseye on her back.

 

[Nosee_Parker]

This case has gotten so huge....and confusing. I am wondering what exactly the stepmom has told LE. Its obvious they know more than they are letting on....

And what has dad said? Cops say he is totally cooperative but can't rule him out as a suspect?! Makes no sense....

It's confusing .... in one instance he is 'uncooperative' then we read that he is assisting LE.

Why would the FBI be involved in this case? Are there Visa issues perhaps?

Whatever their purpose, I bet your bottom dollar AB is shaking in his boots right now ... the FBI would be quite intimidating. Personally I would rather be interrogated by Sadaam Hussein.

ETA: I think demographics - particularly the average income - is irrelevant. The GFC has probably altered the income brackets significantly in lots of areas.

 

[essies]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xC7oKjOXXQ[/ame]

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It's confusing .... in one instance he is 'uncooperative' then we read that he is assisting LE.

Why would the FBI be involved in this case? Are there Visa issues perhaps?

Whatever their purpose, I bet your bottom dollar AB is shaking in his boots right now ... the FBI would be quite intimidating. Personally I would rather be interrogated by Sadaam Hussein.

ETA: I think demographics - particularly the average income - is irrelevant. The GFC has probably altered the income brackets significantly in lots of areas.

FBI is always called in on child abduction cases. Its protocol. They have what is called the CART team (Child Abduction Response Team).

You never hear from them. The local PD and Sheriff's make statements and hold press conferences - the FBI works in the background and talks to no one.

 

[impatientredhead]

It's confusing .... in one instance he is 'uncooperative' then we read that he is assisting LE.

Why would the FBI be involved in this case? Are there Visa issues perhaps?

Whatever their purpose, I bet your bottom dollar AB is shaking in his boots right now ... the FBI would be quite intimidating. Personally I would rather be interrogated by Sadaam Hussein.

ETA: I think demographics - particularly the average income - is irrelevant. The GFC has probably altered the income brackets significantly in lots of areas.

The FBI would have initially been contacted due to the ransom note, but they offer their services to most missing child cases (involving them is very much up to the local office in most situations) but only an ego maniac would turn down the resources that the FBI has to offer.

All the same reasons they are/were involved with the Caylee Anthony, Kyron, Haleigh Cummings, Hasanni, etc... (and the many many many more that are not listed here of course).

 

[Lori59]

To me I think LE thinks both AB and EB are involved. They had to choose one to charge and separate from the other. Did they pick EB because they think she is the person responsible or the person that will "break" and tell them what they need to solve the crime?

 

[Fairy1]

I just ran some basic demographics on Hickory because I'm not real familiar with the area. I find it interesting to note that it's nearly HALF rental properties. The graduation rate is 79% with only 28% of graduates attaining higher education. Close to 15% below the poverty level with a per capita income of $23k.

What is your point? Are there stats to show how many of the folks who fall into these categories MURDER their babies?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thank you essies - that was just beautiful!

I'm wondering and have a question. The Amber Alert. I have followed other cases where there was no Amber Alert and that was seriously questioned - but the official answer was "because there was no vehicle information". Yet, we had an Amber Alert for Kyron and for Zahra. IIRC there was no Amber Alert for Haleigh because of the vehicle "excuse".

It seems odd that sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't and the reasons we are given are not consistent.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Peliman]

To me I think LE thinks both AB and EB are involved. They had to choose one to charge and separate from the other. Did they pick EB because they think she is the person responsible or the person that will "break" and tell them what they need to solve the crime?

She's the one who had bad check charges on initially so she got arrested and booked. Her bonds are posted and if she had some money or securities she could bond out of jail within hours.

AB has warrants also but LE has not arrested him yet.