NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Apparently, family income is unfortunately related to the incidence of domestic violence and child abuse:

"Intimate partner violence affects people regardless of income. However, people with lower annual income (below $25K) are at a 3-times higher risk of intimate partner violence than people with higher annual income (over $50K).*
(Bureau of Justice Statistics, Intimate Partner Violence in the U.S. 1993-2004, 2006.)
*Please note that those with less resources are more likely to report incidents of violence."

http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/

"Children from families with annual incomes below $15,000 per year are more than 25 times more likely than children from families with annual income above $30,000 to be harmed or endangered by abuse or neglect."

http://www.medicinenet.com/child_abuse/page3.htm

 

[bellyup]

What is your point? Are there stats to show how many of the folks who fall into these categories MURDER their babies?

I made a post with statistics (not sure it's going to show up or not because it said it had to be reviewed ... maybe contained a link I should not have included ?? not sure ) .... but YES there is a much higher risk of death by negligence or abuse among those with low incomes and limited education. (you can do a search about the effects of poverty on domestic violence and child abuse / death - there is a lot of information out there.)

 

[voominvava]

To me I think LE thinks both AB and EB are involved. They had to choose one to charge and separate from the other. Did they pick EB because they think she is the person responsible or the person that will "break" and tell them what they need to solve the crime?

or HE will break after seeing her in there ....... :waitasec:

 

[impatientredhead]

What is your point? Are there stats to show how many of the folks who fall into these categories MURDER their babies?

I do think the stats have some relevance when we are discussing where the system failed her.

Property values equate to property taxes.
Wages equate to income taxes.
Poverty creates demand on social services to feed and insure children in the community.

And in any population money issues and drug issues increase the incidence of child abuse/domestic violence.

So overall it can be somewhat relevant in the idea that the we are asking how social services failed Zahra, and she is an area that is likely to be serviced by a particularly overworked and underfunded social services.

Not that things like this don't happen in high economic circles because of course they do, but it is another factor that was not in her favor.

 

[tlcya]

I should get some zzzzs work comes early. Pleas please please let there be some big break when I wake up.

G'night folks.

 

[gibby207]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xC7oKjOXXQ

I knew I shouldn't have.... after tucking my girls to sleep, watching my hubby sleep/snore, my dog and 2 cats curl up in our modest lil home. That wrecked me. I know a lot of songs, but I've never heard that one. omg... I showed my hubby pics of Zahra and he's blown away. This is a man who was borderline jealous of my time spent on WS (I've been here awhile.. lol). He saw Zahra's face and said omg, that's Morgan (our daughter that looks like her). {yes... I get the point of Morganton too!} I cried and said, yes... He's floored. He's a manly type... construction foreman, likes guns and dogs and man stuff. (LOL... sorry, in the midst of crying... lol) But this man, who doesn't sometimes get my involvement in WS is now getting it tonight. Watched NG, saw what they were talking about, looked like he was going to vomit. I can't emphasize enough that my husband, a Marine, is more affected by Zahra's story than any child I've talked about. It says something to push his buttons...

Bless you for this video but damn... I think that ended it for me tonight. But, in a good way, in a way. Maybe she will speak to me in a dream. Night all! Hasta!

 

[essies]

To me I think LE thinks both AB and EB are involved. They had to choose one to charge and separate from the other. Did they pick EB because they think she is the person responsible or the person that will "break" and tell them what they need to solve the crime?

I think they had more current charges on her and she admitted to writing the fake ransom note! Will she break? Probably not now that she has lawyered up!:banghead: I'm sure the pressure is on BIG TIME with AB to spill everthing he knows. BUT-what does he know? Does he know where Zahra is at? Dear God I hope so!!

 

[impatientredhead]

Thank you essies - that was just beautiful!

I'm wondering and have a question. The Amber Alert. I have followed other cases where there was no Amber Alert and that was seriously questioned - but the official answer was "because there was no vehicle information". Yet, we had an Amber Alert for Kyron and for Zahra. IIRC there was no Amber Alert for Haleigh because of the vehicle "excuse".

It seems odd that sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't and the reasons we are given are not consistent.

Does that make any sense?

My understanding is that each organization has to have their internal policies for issuing one, and that there are general guidelines. But they have to have reason to believe that an abduction has occured.

In this situation they had a ransom note that they had not determined at the time had been written by SM. They thought it was possible she had been abducted.

Some counties have set policies that they only use the amber alert if they can give a vehicle description. Others have slightly different guidelines, but they are all suppose to operate under the intent of only posting alerts for what they reasonably think is an abduction so that it is not so flooded with data it just becomes useless.

There is a link around here that lists five criteria and I believe they suggest the local offices set a policy that uses at least three of the five. I will edit to add the link if someone hasn't already added it.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Just my two cents :twocents: I wish our PM would provide a statement regarding Zahra, it's the decent thing to do. She (Julia Gillard, PM) should be thanking the United States for providing such fabulous resources and manpower to this case.

I also think the Australian Government should also be reimbursing something to the US (in the form of $$$) given it's one of our own they are spending every waking minute trying to locate. We appreciate LE's efforts in the search for Zahra.

JMO

As a US citizen, I have to say I'd much prefer if she'd scream bloody murder (literally) about the bumbling incompetence of the police, DSS, and school officials who all had every imaginable red flag waving in their faces about this family, and just stumbled around ignoring each other until it was TOO LATE! If these people (who are all on the taxpayers' payroll) would take their jobs a bit more seriously (and be forced to do so by the taxpayer/voters), and raise a stink when policies and procedures make it difficult to attend to critically important aspects of their jobs, we wouldn't need to be spending a gazillion dollars and man hours looking for a little girl's dead body.

How does a school counselor call a family who the school called DSS on the previous year re possible child/neglect abuse, to ask why the child hasn't shown up for the beginning of the new school year, get told that the family has moved and is "probably going to homeschool" the child . . . and then just drop the matter? Homeschooling, by a family that the school felt needed DSS attention? "Probably", even though the school year had already started???? How about calling both DSS and police *immediately* after getting off the phone with the parent? The local police could have quickly pulled up the stepmother's and father's lists of pending criminal charges, and pointed out that they didn't look much like homeschool material (not to mention that with several of the charges serious enough to warrant prison time, there was serious question as to their availability for homeschooling duties). Why bother calling the family in the first place, if you're going ignore it when they wave huge red flags in your face? Might as well just look at the list of children who didn't show up for the new school year, say to yourself "Ho hum, I wonder why they're not back", and then head off to chat with your co-workers about the new fall fashions.

Australia doesn't owe us any thanks or any money. They sent us a sweet little girl, and at best we'll be sending them back a dead body, even though we had dozens of opportunities to avoid that horrible outcome.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I'm wondering if they are checking landfills? Locals out there - where is the nearest landfill? We heard they took a dumpster that was nearby today - could they track when that dumpster had been emptied and where in the landfill it was dropped?

I say this because if EB acted alone IMO she would have cleaned it up with as little effort as possible and that dumpster would have been easy. Had she watched and knew the pick-up schedule? If that's they way it went then AB would have no clue.

 

[essies]

Gibby-I only posted that video. I found it on youtube and thought it was beautiful. I wish I was creative enough and tech smart enough to make videos! My gosh between that and WS - my DH would think he lived alone!!:crazy:

 

[Fairy1]

I made a post with statistics (not sure it's going to show up or not because it said it had to be reviewed ... maybe contained a link I should not have included ?? not sure ) .... but YES there is a much higher risk of death by negligence or abuse among those with low incomes and limited education. (you can do a search about the effects of poverty on domestic violence and child abuse / death - there is a lot of information out there.)

Those are not facts related to THIS case. It is a generalization. Child abuse is not relegated to ONE socio-economic group. To imply that was a factor in Zahra's likely death is a disservice and gives her "parents" a pass. Boo hoo - they were poor and uneducated so they killed her.

I'm quite certain there are many financially struggling parents who cherish their children. I am equally sure there are many wealthy parents who do not.

 

[hoppyfrog]

WS TOS does not allow the posting of 'cut and pastes' directly from social networking pages.

Links only.

Thanks,

Hoppy
mod

 

[bellyup]

So overall it can be somewhat relevant in the idea that the we are asking how social services failed Zahra, and she is an area that is likely to be serviced by a particularly overworked and underfunded social services.

It also speaks to the "how could police not know when they were called out a dozen times" question. Calls about petty domestic disputes (like saying a family member is using your name for a utility bill) simply do not raise eyebrows by law enforcement in that area. Even calls of domestic arguing among the parents, or minor drug abuse ..... barely given a second thought by LE because it is so so common. If they started removing children or calling in DDS from every house that had a domestic , petty theft, drug complaint, etc.... well... there would be a HUGE HUGE number of children in the system and no resources to care for them.

I am friends with an officer for a very very bad area. It's heavy with gangs, he witnesses several murders in a week (sometimes in one evening), drugs, etc. you name it. They (LE) don't even RESPOND to many simple domestic calls for hours or in some cases DAYS. They simply can't. They do not have the manpower or resources.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

I somewhat disagree. Though, I never thought Zhara was put through the wood chipper for many of the same reasons you state (there would just be so much OBVIOUS evidence). However, it was done in another case and it took LE quite a long time to figure out what had been done.

Actually, from what I recall of that case, it took very little time to establish that all or part of a human body had been run through a wood chipper. It just took a very long time to prove who did it, especially since they didn't have the benefit of DNA testing back then. They had copious amounts of hair, and various other remains, including a toe complete with nail, but no way at all to conclusively prove what person the remains had come from.

 

[MandyLeigh]

I have a question. If the cops where at the home at all previous to Zahra missing, (as stated in the news and on FB) why on earth was EB not arrested for all of her warrants and charges?

If I missed something and there is an explanation I apologize for bringing it up but it kind of irks me. People with warrants who go around frauding, cheating and risking others lives on the road should be brought in. Again here is her charges list...

DWLR $500.00 11/29/2010 06CR843
LARCENY BY EMPLOYEE $15,000.00 10/15/2010 2010CR 50236
DWLR; UNSAFE TIRES $2,000.00 11/18/2010 09CR702308
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR51973
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR51924
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR 51922
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR 51923
COMMUNICATING THREATS $1,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR51352
COMMUNICATING THREATS 11/18/2010 10CR 51353
COMMUNICATING THREATS $1,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR 51259
COMMUNICATING THREATS 11/18/2010 10CR 51260
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR 51920
SIMPLE WORTHLESS CHECK $2,000.00 11/18/2010 10CR51921
DWLR;OPERATE VEH NO INS $200.00 11/18/2010 05 CR 001219
DWLR;FICT/CNCL/REV REG CARD/TAG $500.00 11/18/2010 04 CR 000362
OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE FELONY $40,000.00 11/3/2010 10 CR 056768

http://injail.catawbacountync.gov/WhosInJail/

 

[bellyup]

Those are not facts related to THIS case. It is a generalization. Child abuse is not relegated to ONE socio-economic group. To imply that was a factor in Zahra's likely death is a disservice and gives her "parents" a pass. I'm quite certain there are many financially struggling parents who cherish their children. I am equally sure there are many wealthy parents who do not.

It is not limited to one group you are right. I was NOT implying that it was a factor in Zhara's death.... rather that it was a possible factor in why the police and DDS didn't react more strongly to the multiple calls about abuse and domestic violence.

 

[essies]

I have a question. If the cops where at the home at all previous to Zahra missing, (as stated in the news and on FB) why on earth was EB not arrested for all of her warrants and charges?

If I missed something and there is an explanation I apologize for bringing it up but it kind of irks me. People with warrants who go around frauding, cheating and risking others lives on the road should be brought in. Again here is her charges list...

Very good question!!:banghead:

 

[pufnstuf]

More on school/homeschooling:

Libby Brown, public information officer for Caldwell County Schools, said school personnel try to find a child who does not show for school within the first 10 days of a school year.
"We did contact the family," Brown said about Zahra's parents, Adam and Elisa.
Brown could not divulge a lot of information, but said, "a parent withdrew the child and said the family had moved to a different district."
Brown said the parent indicated Zahra would be home schooled.
That's when the Caldwell County school system's jurisdiction ended.
However, Brown said the system did review elements of home schooling with the parent.
"I am proud that we went above and beyond what is required and took so many additional steps," she said.
School personnel attempted followup calls to the telephone number on file, but there was no response.
"We used every resource for the welfare of Zahra," Brown said.

MORE: http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/15/no-record-zahra-was-home-schooled-ar-458423/

 

[Fairy1]

It is not limited to one group you are right. I was NOT implying that it was a factor in Zhara's death.... rather that it was a possible factor in why the police and DDS didn't react more strongly to the multiple calls about abuse and domestic violence.

Sadly, the failings of DDS, DFS, etc. are epidemic - nationwide. And our children are the victims. Overworked, overloaded, LAZY, UNCARING... Whatever the excuses, babies are dying. I cannot understand how these people can live with themselves.

In THIS case, I'm not sure how many people really attempted to help little Zahra. I would like to believe that they did, but I just can't be sure.

Also - NOT a big fan of home-schooling. And this is exactly why - it removes a significant safety net from the life of a child. One of the few.