Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[Solace]

BINGO ~
What you said about Cindy "checking out".
Yes, she checked out on a convienace basis.
She used this checking out to her advantage, or so she believed.

Whether the checking out was from pure exhaustion, from the daily dealings with not only her daughter, but, also her husband.
Or, due to using it in a pity manner and then turning the tables to hold a dagger over someone's head.

I have no doubt what-so-ever, that in the deep nether regions of her head, that she and her daughter are carbon copies of each other.

She may not have "murdered her daughter", in the way that Casey did, but, she certainly "murdered her" in emotional ways, to mention just one.
She never allowed her daughter to grow up, to become an actual working and functioning adult.
She tells her daughters friends not to trust the girl, tries to keep her emotionally hostage and tied to her apron strings.

Casey Anthony may be breathing now, but, Cindy Anthony took the breath and life out of her a very long time ago, IMO.

She spoke of Casey's "problems", yet, does nothing??

No - it does not happen that way.
You take care of your children.

They have a cold or the flu, you take them to the doctor.
They have something so horrible, that it strikes the very breath out of you and stomps your guts out - you take care of it, as we did with our son.
When the surgeons and doctors and specialists tell you, "sorry, there is nothing we can do", you go to ANOTHER doctor, another surgeon and another specialist until you FIND that answer.
And, maybe that answer is so scarey, more so than the original diagnosis, but, you forge ahead because this is your child.

When the bills start coming in, you pay them.
When the bill collectors start calling and harrassing you, well, you get back in their faces, make arrangements, or let it slide for the time being.
My child's LIFE is more important to me than my frigging credit number. I worked when I could, till I dropped.
I came into this world with nothing but the love of my family, and that is how we all will leave it.

This child, that I gave birth to, that after surgery when things turned grim, I went to the chapel, and I cried.
But, I did not beg for my son's life, as much as I wanted to, I couldn't. There were so many people in that hospital that were in dire circumstances.
All I could do was sit there and cry, and THANK GOD for giving me this gift to TAKE CARE OF.
That I did the best that I could - that if this was His will, I would accept it.
4 hours later, he was out of intensive care.
Why?? How did that happen??

Fast forward to now, from 1996, and this same child, that is now a young man, was having problems with prescription pain management.
And, I knew it.
I saw it ~ I did what I could, and when what I was doing didn't help and I saw that it was beyond me, I took that walk up the court house steps to sign commital papers and have him removed, in handcuffs from our home.
When he was out of treatment, and I saw that he had messed up again, I called 911 and had him removed again.
I couldn't watch his removal, but I knew that it had to be done in order to save his LIFE, again.
If he messes up again, I will not hesitate to do what I have to do.

When you finally reach your breaking point, and you take advantage of your works "3 free counciling sessions", you take those.
If that doesn't take care of it, you CONTINUE at your own expense, again, as I did, and you make do and eventullay pay that also.

Whew - sorry ~ This has me shakng and I really didn't think that once I started writing, I would get so emotional.
But it is real, and it is raw, and it is what you do damn it.
No parent wants to.
But, I can tell you all one thing.
I did not care one whit or bit what people thought of the later circumstances of what we went through in the last couple of years.
Stuff happens ~ stuff happens ~ You take care of it or die yourself trying.

Yes, Cindy does hold some responsibilty.
No one wants to ever believe that their child could do the things that Casey Anthony has been charged with.
But, when you, yourself, SEE IT, day after day, at some point, you DO SOMETHING.
She never did anything because she/Cindy, murdered/crippled her own daughter many years ago, IMO.

And, she KNOWS this as well, or she wouldn't be lieing at every opportunity that is put to her.

Thanks for hearing me out ~

Dam Purple,

What a post. Your son is extremely lucky to have you. And it may take another time for him to get it through his head - sometimes it does. But hopefully it won't. Either way, he is so lucky to have you.

And your post on Cindy is great and I agree with you, Cindy is well aware of what she has done with KC and that it was enabling her and crippling at the same time.

Did I tell you that your son is lucky to have you.

YOUR SON IS LUCKY TO HAVE YOU.

 

[Tulessa]

Dam Purple,

What a post. Your son is extremely lucky to have you. And it may take another time for him to get it through his head - sometimes it does. But hopefully it won't. Either way, he is so lucky to have you.

And your post on Cindy is great and I agree with you, Cindy is well aware of what she has done with KC and that it was enabling her and crippling at the same time.

Did I tell you that your son is lucky to have you.

YOUR SON IS LUCKY TO HAVE YOU.

Thanks just isn't enough for this post! :seeya:

 

[Snaz]

I don't know about that. KC is a sociopath. She started exhibiting the signs in highschool and that is right on schedule.

It is not to say that Caylee is one. Lee is not.

I understand that KC is a sociopath, and we do not know whether or not if Caylee would have grown up to be a sociopath.

However, if Cindy had taken custody of Caylee, IMO, Caylee would still have faced many of the same issues KC had to deal with.... an extremely over-the-top controlling mother who, at any cost, would have wanted to be in charge of her life. That could cause issues even in a "normal" person's life.

Just sayin' and it's JMO.

 

[cyberborg]

Cindy knew Casey was a sociopath.
Using Caylee as a pawn to control Casey was unhealthy on Cindy and Casey's behalf.

I believe Cindy knew Casey put Caylee in bad situations...how could she not think that? Casey was a thief, liar, and in Cindy's own words a sociopath. Would any sane grandmother let their child remain in Casey's care?

Convenience?

I think CA loved Caylee dearly but it became more challenging as Caylee grew up and became more of a handful. I think CA wanted to be 'Mom' when it was 'convenient' and fit her busy work schedule but then wanted ICA to step up as 'Mom' when it was not. Mixed signals.

However, ICA had gotten away with a LOT when Caylee was a baby because CA was more into that. As Caylee became a toddler it became more of an issue between them but ICA did NOT want to relinquish her freedom, her partying and, her new found friends.

Matters naturally came to a head with ICA escalating more and more out of control and having found a new boy toy, TL she was not about to give up any ground but CA was at the end of her tether.

ICA resolved the dispute by removing Caylee permanently to punish CA and be forever free (La Bella Vita). She did not confront CA with what she had done but played mind games for 31 days to play with CA's emotions and torture her while partying hard for as long as she could before getting busted.

 

[tlcya]

Does Cindy bear any blame for what happened to Caylee?

Legally, no

Morally, - Does a bear do poo in the forest?

 

[sumbunny]

I guess it all boils down to...was Casey neglectful of Caylee?

If so, ...and Cindy knew it. Isn't it the law to report it?

 

[angeldust]

However, if Cindy had taken custody of Caylee, IMO, Caylee would still have faced many of the same issues KC had to deal with.... an extremely over-the-top controlling mother who, at any cost, would have wanted to be in charge of her life.

in my experience grandmothers are usually a lot less judgemental with the grandchildren than they are with their children

I think cindy didnt really want custody of caylee i think she just thought it would frighten casey into stepping up to the mark, which did nothing of the sort.

the question does cindy bear any of the blame well it depends what were blaming her for i know i said i dont blame her for casey killing her daughter, but blameing her for how casey turned out well that could be another matter entirely. Its the old nature verses nurture arguement.

Has she done wrong of course she has but in hindsight we would all do a lot of things differently, are the defense going to use this to their advantage, yes they are. we can all see that there were things wrong but if we were to scratch the surface of many of our families i dont think many of us would come out unscathed.

she would probably have enabled caylee to but to a lesser degree. However i may be wrong and sadly will never know how young caylee would have turned out. I know this much, my cousins life has been all but ruined because of his "so called mother" however his brother who has had the exact same experience as him growing up has handled things completely differently.

I as an only child have one of the most controlling, critical, judgemental mothers you could ever come across, although where my children are concerned, well thats another matter.

Having said all this I can say without any hesitation if i were responsible for the death of any of my children well lets just say the courts wouldnt need to spend a penny defending me my mother would be sitting in a cell patting her own back for sending me to my maker.

Everyone has raised valid points on this thread we dont all have to agree what a boring world we would live in if we all thought the same way. This is what makes us stand out from each other , its what makes us us

 

[Solace]

I guess it all boils down to...was Casey neglectful of Caylee?

If so, ...and Cindy knew it. Isn't it the law to report it?

Yes, but it is very hard to tell because she looked fine and remember she is a toddler. So you can ignore them and bring them to parties (as Amy H. thought was wrong) and then act like they are the light of your life when others are around and who can tell. She was well fed and no bruises, etc.

The thing about the chloroform and KC's giving it to her.

Doesn't chloroform have an odor? I would think that Cindy would have smelled it in Caylee's hair at some point????? What do you think?

 

[Solace]

in my experience grandmothers are usually a lot less judgemental with the grandchildren than they are with their children

I think cindy didnt really want custody of caylee i think she just thought it would frighten casey into stepping up to the mark, which did nothing of the sort.

the question does cindy bear any of the blame well it depends what were blaming her for i know i said i dont blame her for casey killing her daughter, but blameing her for how casey turned out well that could be another matter entirely. Its the old nature verses nurture arguement.

Has she done wrong of course she has but in hindsight we would all do a lot of things differently, are the defense going to use this to their advantage, yes they are. we can all see that there were things wrong but if we were to scratch the surface of many of our families i dont think many of us would come out unscathed.

she would probably have enabled caylee to but to a lesser degree. However i may be wrong and sadly will never know how young caylee would have turned out. I know this much, my cousins life has been all but ruined because of his "so called mother" however his brother who has had the exact same experience as him growing up has handled things completely differently.

I as an only child have one of the most controlling, critical, judgemental mothers you could ever come across, although where my children are concerned, well thats another matter.

Having said all this I can say without any hesitation if i were responsible for the death of any of my children well lets just say the courts wouldnt need to spend a penny defending me my mother would be sitting in a cell patting her own back for sending me to my maker.

Everyone has raised valid points on this thread we dont all have to agree what a boring world we would live in if we all thought the same way. This is what makes us stand out from each other , its what makes us us

Cindy said she could not really afford to get custody and pay for a sitter.

Now this is such BS because her daughter was stealing no less than 200 a week with the checks she was writing on her account. She was afraid she woudl not get it or in some weird way maybe she liked the way things were. The long-suffering mother and wife.

Remember she is a doormat and George proves that. He maxed out their credit cards with a Nigerian in England on one of the scams. Of late, he took close to $5,000 from the woman he met at the site for Caylee - you know - the one who tries to kill herself. This woman came to the Anthony's home to bring Cindy flowers and Cindy said "is George taking money from you". She said Cindy was obviously distraught and had been crying and when she told her yes, Cindy replied "I knew it". She also tells the story of listening to George yell at Cindy when she was away doing an interview and he asked her if she got paid and got the check and when she replied no, he yelled at her like she was an idiot and hung up on her.

And this is what we know about. Rick (Cindy's brother) said George had a huge fight with his father (George's father ) when they were in business and almost put his father's head through the windshield (could be or not be), but he is not easy to live with - he does not carry his own.

 

[ZsaZsa]

You know, I saw nothing wrong with CA giving ICA an ultimatum, to straighten up and fly right. CA must have seen things ICA did or didn't do with Caylee which brought her to "think" about taking custody of her grandchild.

After the last 911 call, in that call I heard a desperate grandmother, frantic not knowing where Caylee was and if she was okay. They both knew something was wrong with the smell of death in the vehicle. I thought, wow, Grandmother ain't playing games with her daughter, she wants her grandchild.

After ICA's first arrest (on a whim), all things changed soon after. She now is being contray, hostile and saying ICA was a good mother and lying doesn't make you a murderer nor is lying a crime....

This is when the about face happened and it angered the hell out of me to hear this loving grandmother now backing the daughter she deemed a pathological liar and sociopath.

Still no Caylee in sight. I think the only responsibility CA has is, she did not do everything possible to ensure her granddaughters safety. She and her "avoidance" tendencies allowed Caylee's demise at the hands of her own child. She should have marched herself down the family court and started proceedings for custody...That's her problem, she doesn't follow through with her threats...and ICA knows this....JMHO

I am so glad I was raised by a mother who cared, showed me there are consequences for my actions and I must accept those consequences if I did wrong. She instilled integrity, good work ethics, morality, compassion. You get respect when you give respect, never, ever do something that someone can hold over your head, if you lie, you will only bring shame/humiliation upon yourself. Be the best you can be and it will come back to you 10 fold...Thank you mom. Rest in Heaven and KNOW how much I miss and appreciate you for being YOU...JMHO


Justice for Caylee

I love your last paragraph. It is very difficult to be a good parent, it means you have to withstand being disliked, resented and often hated, when dealing with an unruly teenager. Your mother was willing to suffer that so that you would not come to any harm from your immature decisions and have good character. Where CA failed was she did not do that, she wanted to be popular, to be her BFF as she calls her, and in doing so became an enabler.
No one in the family was allowed to challenge this; when GA tried to point out to CA that ICA was not working at Sports Authority he got scolded and told not to 'spy on her'. CA did not want to know.
When ICA failed to graduate school CA went to the school and complained -to her mind it was obviously the school's fault
When Lee sold ICA his car that he had paid for with his own money, she only made 2 payments, but when he wanted to get confrontational with her about it CA again intervened.
When ICA stole from her Grandmother and Grandfather what did CA do? Lied about it, repaid them out of her own account.
When ICA ran up $40k of debt, CA paid it off, emptying her IRA to do so.
When ICa stole from Amy, CA described it as "a misunderstanding between friends'.
Her lifelong pattern of enabling ICA had to have consequences. ICA felt contempt and loathing for CA directly because of it, and she bears a huge responsibility for the way ICA turned out, a huge responsibility for not facing what was going on when ICA was 'working' ie staying out all night. She and GA should have stood their ground and confronted her.
She should have called DCF, but she wanted to remain 'popular' with ICA.
She didn't even achieve that.

 

[angeldust]

yip agreed she has not her sorrows to seek , they all took advantage of her.

thats why i cant blame her for all that is wrong in the anthony home, i sometimes think she just cannot cope and doesnt want the world knowing her business I cannot imagine how this woman gets through each day. I for one would not like to be in her shoes she didnt ask for this no one would

the lies and the blaming of others i find hard to ignore but will not judge sometimes i feel some compassion and sometimes she really infuriates me

i know crazy

 

[angeldust]

havent a clue about the choroform i thought it evapourated really quickly.

what i will say is reading about the computer searches for chloroform and what search words she used, it really stood out to me that she was intent on killing someone....

accidentental just doesnt have a look in imo

 

[Solace]

I love your last paragraph. It is very difficult to be a good parent, it means you have to withstand being disliked, resented and often hated, when dealing with an unruly teenager. Your mother was willing to suffer that so that you would not come to any harm from your immature decisions and have good character. Where CA failed was she did not do that, she wanted to be popular, to be her BFF as she calls her, and in doing so became an enabler.
No one in the family was allowed to challenge this; when GA tried to point out to CA that ICA was not working at Sports Authority he got scolded and told not to 'spy on her'. CA did not want to know.
When ICA failed to graduate school CA went to the school and complained -to her mind it was obviously the school's fault
When Lee sold ICA his car that he had paid for with his own money, she only made 2 payments, but when he wanted to get confrontational with her about it CA again intervened.
When ICA stole from her Grandmother and Grandfather what did CA do? Lied about it, repaid them out of her own account.
When ICA ran up $40k of debt, CA paid it off, emptying her IRA to do so.
When ICa stole from Amy, CA described it as "a misunderstanding between friends'.
Her lifelong pattern of enabling ICA had to have consequences. ICA felt contempt and loathing for CA directly because of it, and she bears a huge responsibility for the way ICA turned out, a huge responsibility for not facing what was going on when ICA was 'working' ie staying out all night. She and GA should have stood their ground and confronted her.
She should have called DCF, but she wanted to remain 'popular' with ICA.
She didn't even achieve that.

George got a little more than scolded. Cindy said "what are you doing, checking up on our daughter?"

By the way, someone I work with told me the other day she was with her husband and they were with their 3 year old twins and she was buying deli stuff and he was with the twins buying something else for dinner. He comes running up and said I turned away for a sec and Colin is gone. he was frantic and they are scouring the aisles and all this took less than a minute and a half and they found him.

I mentioned Casey to her and the 31 days and she said I would have passed out if it were 31 minutes.

Just sayin the state is amassing all of this evidence and they will present it. But as a parent, anyone hearing that someone waited 31 days to report their child missing and only at the insistence of the grandmother, is, imo, going to prison FOREVA.

 

[Aedrys]

I also do want to say that I think Casey learned how to play her mother over the years. And Cindy just kept covering for her no matter what she did. I think the whole not saying anything for 31 days and then her mom and dad finding the car and smelling the odor was the ultimate way for Casey to get back at them, especially her mom. Who knows, maybe she left the car at Amscot on purpose, knowing it would be towed, and since it was in mom and dad's name, she knew they would have to go and get it. At the very least, I think she enjoyed that they smelled Caylee's dead body in that car. I just don't see Casey as a victim of her mother here. I think she learned how to work her mother's system to her advantage and has taken advantage of it ever since. Unfortunately, Cindy can't and won't accept the truth, and keeps seeing Casey as she wants to see her, not as Casey really is. And Casey just walks away, smirking, not looking at her mother all the while. She knows she is torturing her mother and she is enjoying every moment of it.

It makes me feel a twinge of sympathy for Cindy until I recall the shenanigans and bad treatment of people. It's Cindy's choice that she refuses to see the writing on the wall. Cindy is not a victim here. Only Cindy can end her own torment by recognizing Casey for what she truly is, not a perfect mother of the year, but the total opposite of that. Unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen, not even with the ugly truths that will be revealed at trial. Casey will torture her mom for the rest of her mom's life.

 

[angeldust]

[

QUOTE=Aedrys;6134415]I also do want to say that I think Casey learned how to play her mother over the years. And Cindy just kept covering for her no matter what she did. I think the whole not saying anything for 31 days and then her mom and dad finding the car and smelling the odor was the ultimate way for Casey to get back at them, especially her mom. Who knows, maybe she left the car at Amscot on purpose, knowing it would be towed, and since it was in mom and dad's name, she knew they would have to go and get it. At the very least, I think she enjoyed that they smelled Caylee's dead body in that car. I just don't see Casey as a victim of her mother here. I think she learned how to work her mother's system to her advantage and has taken advantage of it ever since. Unfortunately, Cindy can't and won't accept the truth, and keeps seeing Casey as she wants to see her, not as Casey really is. And Casey just walks away, smirking, not looking at her mother all the while. She knows she is torturing her mother and she is enjoying every moment of it.

Well said you are so much better than I trying to put this into words.

Thank you

 

[Solace]

I also do want to say that I think Casey learned how to play her mother over the years. And Cindy just kept covering for her no matter what she did. I think the whole not saying anything for 31 days and then her mom and dad finding the car and smelling the odor was the ultimate way for Casey to get back at them, especially her mom. Who knows, maybe she left the car at Amscot on purpose, knowing it would be towed, and since it was in mom and dad's name, she knew they would have to go and get it. At the very least, I think she enjoyed that they smelled Caylee's dead body in that car. I just don't see Casey as a victim of her mother here. I think she learned how to work her mother's system to her advantage and has taken advantage of it ever since. Unfortunately, Cindy can't and won't accept the truth, and keeps seeing Casey as she wants to see her, not as Casey really is. And Casey just walks away, smirking, not looking at her mother all the while. She knows she is torturing her mother and she is enjoying every moment of it.

It makes me feel a twinge of sympathy for Cindy until I recall the shenanigans and bad treatment of people. It's Cindy's choice that she refuses to see the writing on the wall. Cindy is not a victim here. Only Cindy can end her own torment by recognizing Casey for what she truly is, not a perfect mother of the year, but the total opposite of that. Unfortunately, I don't think that will ever happen, not even with the ugly truths that will be revealed at trial. Casey will torture her mom for the rest of her mom's life.

I hear ya! And then I do remember that she is implicating Amy and Jesse and Tony and Ricardo - all who had nothing to do with this. Lee along with his mother and also George. So I lose all sympathy for them when I realize they are willing to do anything even implicate the innocent.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Okay - I have settled down somewhat now..again........whew.
I started reading the posts, and checking off the thank you's, and I really have to agree also, to remove myself from this one guys.

Everyone, everyone here has made very valid points and observations.

While it is true that Cindy did not murder Caylee, I still feel she holds some responsibility.
As far as her religion, I won't go there accept to say, that in the end, whoever, or whatever, if "any" type of thing holds your final judgment, then so be it.

Again, my apologies to all for being so overly charged in my above post - but, it is life, and it is reality.
Later.........

Your post was wonderful Purple ! I admire the strength it took for you to do the right thing. It's so hard to use tough love with the people you love the most, your children.

I don't know what made Cindy enable Casey so much. What is it in Cindy that perpetuated this behavior ? If Casey was just a bad person from a good family, it would be so much easier to lay all of the blame on her. When you factor in her family and what we know about them, it makes it much more complicated.

 

[Tulessa]

Cindy said she could not really afford to get custody and pay for a sitter.

Now this is such BS because her daughter was stealing no less than 200 a week with the checks she was writing on her account. She was afraid she woudl not get it or in some weird way maybe she liked the way things were. The long-suffering mother and wife.

Remember she is a doormat and George proves that. He maxed out their credit cards with a Nigerian in England on one of the scams. Of late, he took close to $5,000 from the woman he met at the site for Caylee - you know - the one who tries to kill herself. This woman came to the Anthony's home to bring Cindy flowers and Cindy said "is George taking money from you". She said Cindy was obviously distraught and had been crying and when she told her yes, Cindy replied "I knew it". She also tells the story of listening to George yell at Cindy when she was away doing an interview and he asked her if she got paid and got the check and when she replied no, he yelled at her like she was an idiot and hung up on her.

And this is what we know about. Rick (Cindy's brother) said George had a huge fight with his father (George's father ) when they were in business and almost put his father's head through the windshield (could be or not be), but he is not easy to live with - he does not carry his own.

IMO River was a victim too.

 

[Macushla]

I personally think that CA is guilty of enabling ICA, bad parenting, using a passive-aggressive stance to keep ICA and thus Caylee in her home but ... although she created a monster it was the monster that committed the act of murder.

There are thousands of parents with bad parenting skills who have created spoiled brats of varying degrees but they don't go on to murder their own daughter.

I'd agree that CA bears some blame in what ICA has become (pre homicide) but I'd argue that CA bears no blame in the ultimate crime that ICA committed. ICA had many options to deal with her situation and could have runaway as she did alone, left Caylee behind or, handed Caylee off to a caring person, kept Caylee and care for her, etc.

ICA chose to murder Caylee Marie of her own choosing out of spite, out of hatred for CA. Plain and simple. ICA bears total and sole blame for crossing the line from the "War of the CMA's" to a criminal homicidal act.

CA bears blame had ICA taken a normal non-homicide action to resolve her situ because CA did not manage the situation correctly to deal with her wayward daughter. CA bears blame for covering up for ICA after the fact and going to extraordinary lengths to try to save her and protect her. CA is basically making the same mistakes after the fact as she did before ... a lack of tough love.

However, as others have posted, CA may have bad parenting skills and is throwing her own family under the bus to try to save ICA but she is going to live in her own personal hell for the rest of her life because she cannot ever change what ICA did ... no matter what happens to ICA ... no matter how CA spins that publicly ... the facts and the regrets remain. CA cannot change history. It is too late and the hardest life lesson of all.

Bravo! You said what I was trying to say and you put it beautifully. In particular, the BBM line is so true and so sad.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I know that CA herself will be reading this thread (Hi Cindy!) and she'll scan it, looking only for some "supportive" words (there won't be many).

I "know" CA really well, I was raised by a Mother just like her. I have a post here somewhere about the day my high school called a conference with my Mother and around 8-9 of my teachers....(to let my Mother know that I was cutting school and going to flunk out completely). Well, I was scared to death, as most 16 year olds would be, but instead of being mad at me, when the meeting was over and we reached the parking lot together my Mother started in on the people who called the meeting! She ranted and raved about THEM (can you believe it? Well, I was relieved, but like KC, I didn't finish high school with my class!) THANKS, MOM for the many mixed signals.

Let's be clear, over the years I hated my Mother just like KC hate(s) CA. When I hear the venom in KC's voice toward her Mother, I hear my own voice. It was many many many years later that I got it together and somewhat appreciated the other good qualities my Mother had (she had many)....but teaching responsibility certainly was not one of them. Like CA, my Mother relished praising me to the hilt (usually for my looks) and then watching me crash and burn in every other department, so she could completely lord it over me later. My Mother and CA totally love(d) the feeling of superiority they got playing these head games. By the way, both CA & my Mother were/are Gemini and my Mother fit that sign to the max. One minute she hated me the next she lovvved me (especially if people were "watching").

Here's something you need to know. My Mother NEVER accepted any blame for anything. And I can guarantee that CA never will either. Both my Mother and CA fit Borderline Personality Disorder also to the max). I now KNOW why my Mother developed a personality disorder (and it's grim business)....but what about CA? What happened to her to make her so she will never see her part in this???? My guess (based on my own experience, so it may be projection) is some manner of abuse in her own developing years. People like CA & my mother "won't take any crap from anyone!" In my Mother's case it was because she was violated. I never knew that until it was way too late to have a "regular" Mother/Daughter relationship and I'm not sure I would have been able to understand why she had to treat me like crap, because she had been harmed. I understand now....but I might not have then.

Sorry for the long essay, just wanted you to know, CA won't accept a shred of responsibility for Caylee's demise. That's one reason why she surrounds herself with her own yes people instead of hanging out with anyone who could help her.

:hug: