KC's "Brain Development"

[ExpectingUnicorns]

My son has full custody of the children, but the NARC continues to haunt us. She didn't want the children & gave them up willingly about 2 years ago.

The children refuse to visit with her, so she has now started another court proceeding, trying to get visitation.

The judge ordered a psychological eval on her & so far, the PHD doing the eval, sees what she is & will likely be denied any visitation at all.

We do not see her or talk to her. She is CRAZY and like most narcissists, blames my son for everything & also wants revenge on him.

She's getting it, he is financially ruined with all the legal fees.

This makes her HAPPY even though all his financial problems, affect the children & limit what they can do (activities) and any other need they may have.

We're hoping (finally) that the courts decision will finally STOP her, but who knows.

Narcissists will not be denied what they want & right now she will not accept that the kids absolutely HATE her. She is determined to FORCE them to see her (not going to happen) but in her mind, she is not the problem.

IF the court decides she cannot see them, we plan to move to another state to get away from her. Sad, isn't it, but that is what we have decided is our only course of action, since she is relentless.

She's also an alcohlic, like many narcissists, they have addictive personalities & turn to alcohol & drugs.

They are very dangerous, so be careful if either of these people are still in your life in any way. They are also stalkers, but seems you found that out already.

Seperating from them can be dangerous, so watch your back.

:hug:

 

[technicalconfusion]

Interesting concept. I'd like to know what kind of math levels she was in (my 14 year old is in Algebra - going to Geometry in HS). Is in the band and plays fluent french horn. Yes, I consider him above average.

That's not to say lower classes make one mentally challenged - heck, I only took basic math throughout high school.

You made it thru basic math? Respect! I barely did that, lol.

I, too, almost didn't graduate. I had 1 history course that I failed (dang, I hated history), but I took it during the summer and rec'd my diploma. If she had 1 or 3 credits to make up, she certainly could have done that.

I did the same thing with math.

I never considered myself slow - lazy, yes - but not slow. I just think ICA didn't want to, or couldn't be bothered to do the effort.

Besides, I lived in San Fernando in High School, and would much rather spend my days at Malibu than school (oh yah, I got in trouble for that too).

Same here - lazy in regards to school, but I did work as well. I worked at nite at Wuv's, then of course had to party after work. School was for catching up on sleep!

 

[LambChop]

Having been a high school English teacher, I would like to point out that the level of courses that students elect or not has little to do with innate intelligence. I attended a very small parochial high school (late 1960s) with a limited curriculum compared to that of larger public schools that offered many more basic courses and electives. I took Algebra I and Geometry but didn't pursue math beyond sophomore year. This has nothing to do with my level of intelligence or overall academic capabilities: Math simply wasn't my thing. Less than 1/3 of my graduating class went to college, and I was among them. Having taken only two years of math in high school didn't impact my academic success in high school or college.

If Casey didn't finish high school, it was most likely due to laziness, or even boredom, and not because she's intellectually deficient. jmo

BINGO. Mystery solved. You've got it right. And too lazy to go back to work. IMO

 

[janine]

My son has full custody of the children, but the NARC continues to haunt us. She didn't want the children & gave them up willingly about 2 years ago.

The children refuse to visit with her, so she has now started another court proceeding, trying to get visitation.

The judge ordered a psychological eval on her & so far, the PHD doing the eval, sees what she is & will likely be denied any visitation at all.

We do not see her or talk to her. She is CRAZY and like most narcissists, blames my son for everything & also wants revenge on him.

She's getting it, he is financially ruined with all the legal fees.

This makes her HAPPY even though all his financial problems, affect the children & limit what they can do (activities) and any other need they may have.

We're hoping (finally) that the courts decision will finally STOP her, but who knows.

Narcissists will not be denied what they want & right now she will not accept that the kids absolutely HATE her. She is determined to FORCE them to see her (not going to happen) but in her mind, she is not the problem.

IF the court decides she cannot see them, we plan to move to another state to get away from her. Sad, isn't it, but that is what we have decided is our only course of action, since she is relentless.

She's also an alcohlic, like many narcissists, they have addictive personalities & turn to alcohol & drugs.

They are very dangerous, so be careful if either of these people are still in your life in any way. They are also stalkers, but seems you found that out already.

Seperating from them can be dangerous, so watch your back.

Wow- thanks for sharing that. I get it, completely. This personality is off the charts and very difficult to deal with. My friend, like your DIL, refused to give up. I felt helpless but eventually she's moved on to my circle of friends. It's just mind boggling. The boss I referenced, attempted to sue me for some really odd things after I quit. He lost every time, but not before nearly causing me a nervous breakdown. I finally just threatened his attorney with abuse of the system, which put the kabash on it. He must of seen something shiny which distracted him and has since moved on, now doing this to another ex-employee. This, mind you, is a CEO of a company.

I think the narcissist and sociopath can go hand in hand. Where one is, the other is not too far behind. We ALL need to be mindful of this type and run when you see the signs.
Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[Solace]

I won't re-type them all here, but if ya Google aggravating factors in Florida death sentencing, you will see that these mitigators don't come close to outweighing the aggravators.
They are not going with insanity, so these are solely mitigation attempts. How does brain activity or abuse overcome the aggravating factor, the one I see as most important, that this child was killed in the care of her mother? Her mommy that she adored and felt safe with.

I just want to add something about brain development. It has been proven that the brain is not fully developed at the age of 20 and it takes a few more years to do that. Meaning that teenagers and young adults DO NOT consider the ramifications of their actions. An e.g. of that is a young man who went to jail for some 15 years for killing his girlfriend's father (who she said was sexually abusing her - which was untrue). The young man, who is now a lawyer, said he NEVER once considered the ramifications when he waited for the father outside of his house and shot him dead. I think that is extremely important. Anyone who has children will understand that when they have to tell a teenager over and over again, think about what you are doing. And they never seem to. Having said all that, I think she is a sociopath and as this trial has gotten underway and I have watched practically evertything, I believe in my heart that Cindy and George have had a monumental lapse in their parenting to the point of the detriment of KC. E.g. letting her steal upwards of 3000 a month starting (that I know of) in January 2008, for two months and then several hundred for months after. Letting her do this, but be home on time with the baby. LEtting her lie about going to work, but be home on time with the baby. We all know she was staying atj Ricardo's some five days a week for a few months starting in Feb. 2008. Cindy lied about this. I believe Ricardo. So stay out five nights a week, rob me blind, lie about work, BUT TAKE GOOD CARE OF THE BABY. This in no way excuses the crime. She is a sociopath and I believe the time to fix that is over. But this is not a death penalty case. It is a lwop case., imo. And if she were to get off, I am going to say, there is a possibility she could do it again, if she felt she needed to and got awy with this. But I believe wholeheartedly that Cindy bears responsibility for this coming to pass. Children are not born knowing the right thing. They are taught it and she was allowed to lie, steal, to an incredible magnitude and leave havoc in her way. No one reined her in. It is extremely sad on all fronts. I cannot imagine how George and Cindy are going to react to being accused of everything under the sun. They are gong to be. No doubt. But it appears that they are denying sexual abuse. So they are not willing to go that far for her. Things could change dramatically when George gets up there on the stand.

 

[Linda7NJ]

IMO There is something VERY wrong with Casey. I would have no problem believing she has some sort of brain damage. Frontal Lobe perhaps. Does that excuse what she did? No. But it may help explain it.

IMO Casey will escape the DP and be sentanced to LWOP...........

 

[katydid23]

I know that many threads exist about opinion pertaining to KC's mental status, but I don't think that there is a thread about what Ann Finnell has referred to during voir dire as "brain development". Clearly, Finnell is referring to some sort of intellectual disability.

From the beginning the thing that has baffled me along with why Caylee is dead is why didn't KC graduate from high school. A normal middle class girl graduates from high school!

It's a long way to mitigation, but in the meantime, do you have opinions on KC's "brain development"?

For example: Might KC have belonged in a remedial class, but the superior Anthony's couldn't/wouldn't accept that she was "slow"?

What do you think? Discuss!

Cindy blamed it on the school counselor and claimed Casey was only 1/2 a credit shy of graduation. THAT is BS. The school could have easily found a way to quickly make up a half a credit. She could shuffle papers in the front office and make up 1/2 a credit, if that was the only problem. And why wouldn't she have told them if it was such a minor amount of credits? They could have easily worked that out. NOPE. It was more than just a half a credit. The high schools really want their graduation percentage to be high. IF there is a way to get one more to graduate they will do so. They would never allow someone to add to their failure rate over a half a credit. So her problems were bigger than that. She could have gone to summer school for one semester and gotten her diploma if that were the case. Why didn't she do that if she was 'so close' to graduation?

Besides, most high schools will allow a student to 'walk' the stage and receive an empty envelope if they really only need a credit or two. My daughters 2 friends both did that after having Senior Brain Freeze and flunking Senior English.

Casey is lying once again. She fell fall short from graduating or she would have made it up at the junior college long ago. imoo

 

[21merc7]

I know nothing of brain development or levels of maturity as a professional.

I do believe KC was abused to a certain degree, but no worse than your average abusive family in America.

I agree a certain level of intelligence and cunning have to exist for what we know of KC so far. More than I would ever think of, but I am not geared to slant on that side of darkness.

Having experienced people much like KC too close to go into detail, I can say diminished capacity is not the truth. KC may be spinning yarns to the therapists that the State of Florida is paying for.

Some quirks, yes, some abuse, yes. Childlike in any way, no. Selfishness as an adult is a choice, especially when a baby is involved and has become your competition. How many people here had mothers that were jealous of them and made it clear throughout your lifetime? (I think we have quite a few, just saying.)

She can, has, and will continue to make decisions because she chooses to. I do believe she knows right from wrong, she is just heck bent on "getting even" for her sake. She holds anger in the same way she can be a camel when she wants to watch every move JB makes. Stubborn, self satisfying. No regard for any others.

Sure all of that to a simple therapist can be turned into any number of things. No matter how many pills you give someone, or how many named excuses, you get no where until that someone wishes to make a change.

Do I call it immaturity? Sometimes. Sometimes I call it spoiled, sometimes I call it someone that has never experienced a true hardship or more. It all is in the name.

Label it as you wish.

 

[Solace]

I know nothing of brain development or levels of maturity as a professional.

I do believe KC was abused to a certain degree, but no worse than your average abusive family in America.

I agree a certain level of intelligence and cunning have to exist for what we know of KC so far. More than I would ever think of, but I am not geared to slant on that side of darkness.

Having experienced people much like KC too close to go into detail, I can say diminished capacity is not the truth. KC may be spinning yarns to the therapists that the State of Florida is paying for.

Some quirks, yes, some abuse, yes. Childlike in any way, no. Selfishness as an adult is a choice, especially when a baby is involved and has become your competition. How many people here had mothers that were jealous of them and made it clear throughout your lifetime? (I think we have quite a few, just saying.)

She can, has, and will continue to make decisions because she chooses to. I do believe she knows right from wrong, she is just heck bent on "getting even" for her sake. She holds anger in the same way she can be a camel when she wants to watch every move JB makes. Stubborn, self satisfying. No regard for any others.

Sure all of that to a simple therapist can be turned into any number of things. No matter how many pills you give someone, or how many named excuses, you get no where until that someone wishes to make a change.

Label it as you wish.

Of course, but imo KC is a sociopath and there is a chance for rehabilitation when they are young. Cindy and George let it fester. It is important. Especially when dealing with the death penalty. They did nothing about it. She was stealing and lying for quite some time. Cindy, imo, wanted a baby and let KC have this to the point of lying and ignoring that she was pregnant. So you know your child is a sociopath and you let her lie about being pregnant and then you insist that she take care of the baby responsibly. Nooooooooooooooooooo, I don't think that will happen. Not with a sociopath.

 

[Phumi]

Defense in a "nut" shell.

http://www.ahealthymind.org/library/Attach murder Heide 06.pdf

(snip)This article has reviewed recent scientific findings showing that Type III trauma interferes with normal development
and is often associated with long-term neurophysiological changes involving the brain and endocrine system.
Abnormal development of the brain can lead to cognitive deficits; affect dysregulation, lack of empathy, rage, and
aggression. Type III trauma survivors are typically diagnosed with complex PTSD. They have difficulty accessing
higher cortical centers when in stressful situations, and consequently, they are at greater risk of behaving
inappropriately. For example, they are more likely than those without a trauma history to lash out violently at others, to
take flight, or to freeze in panic.

 

[Solace]

Defense in a "nut" shell.

http://www.ahealthymind.org/library/Attach murder Heide 06.pdf

(snip)This article has reviewed recent scientific findings showing that Type III trauma interferes with normal development
and is often associated with long-term neurophysiological changes involving the brain and endocrine system.
Abnormal development of the brain can lead to cognitive deficits; affect dysregulation, lack of empathy, rage, and
aggression. Type III trauma survivors are typically diagnosed with complex PTSD. They have difficulty accessing
higher cortical centers when in stressful situations, and consequently, they are at greater risk of behaving
inappropriately. For example, they are more likely than those without a trauma history to lash out violently at others, to
take flight, or to freeze in panic.

br /> Yes, but KC does not lash out at friends. She lashes out at the family. She knows not to do it with friends who she wants to use. She is a sociopath. IMO.

 

[Phumi]

br /> Yes, but KC does not lash out at friends. She lashes out at the family. She knows not to do it with friends who she wants to use. She is a sociopath. IMO.

I agree. And I think she lashed out violently at Caylee.

 

[Solace]

I agree. And I think she lashed out violently at Caylee.

Yup, I agree. But I also think that Cindy bears respnonsbility for leaving this child with a sociopath. She told Ryan to stay away from her because she did not want him to get hurt because KC is a sociopath. Yet she let KC take CAylee.

 

[allycat1208]

Does anyone know if there's any psychological reports of Casey Anthony.

 

[Intermezzo]

Also AF said something about her impulse control. Kind of like manic/depressive - Bipolar (is what I took it has?).

Wonder if that is what they are contributing her wld behavior to a manic eppisode? Shopping with Amy's checks etc...

bbm
I have wondered if the DT will go with Bipolar disorder or manic-depressive...but I believe that requires a Psychiatric diagnosis.

It has been mentioned , by iirc George and Grandma Pleasea, that George's sister suffers or suffered from iirc dipolar disorder or other disorder.

I had wondered if the DT would go this route because it may be a disorder that runs in the Anthony family.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Does anyone know if there's any psychological reports of Casey Anthony.

I believe there is allycat..but assume they are sealed at this point...but Casey is a manipulator, and those she feels she can control, thus the lashing out at her "Controllers" (family) and "Responsibiities" (Caylee///:-()....She only holds onto relationships that she feels in control of and dismisses , rejects, or blames anyone who does NOT suit her purpose...

Bottomline..Sociopath/Narcissistic personality....NO EXCUSE for murdering an innocent...In the old dayz they termed this as "The Bad Seed" person...who took out any obstacle to her wants and needs by words or deeds!!...Maybe Casey fits in that category!!:twocents:

 

[Solace]

bbm
I have wondered if the DT will go with Bipolar disorder or manic-depressive...but I believe that requires a Psychiatric diagnosis.

It has been mentioned , by iirc George and Grandma Pleasea, that George's sister suffers or suffered from iirc dipolar disorder or other disorder.

I had wondered if the DT would go this route because it may be a disorder that runs in the Anthony family.

I would be willing to bet that 90 percent of society is bi-polar. That won't work. iMO

 

[luvmygarden]

Apparently in court this week she has tried to follow her mantra. She is pouty and bossy and indifferent to her situation. Problem is she has a defense team that is not falling for her games and manipulation. They have not spent this much time with her and are probably a bit surprised the real ICA is showing herself. With an hour here and there while her getting their undivided attention during jailhouse visits it was easy for her to maintain and easy going personality. This will be a long 8 weeks for the defense and stressful. She will be just a warm body sitting at the defense table while they attempt to make her dream come true. Oh I think she will be very unhappy that she has to pretend to be in an RV and it is really only a jail cell in prison.

 

[allycat1208]

I believe there is allycat..but assume they are sealed at this point...but Casey is a manipulator, and those she feels she can control, thus the lashing out at her "Controllers" (family) and "Responsibiities" (Caylee///:-()....She only holds onto relationships that she feels in control of and dismisses , rejects, or blames anyone who does NOT suit her purpose...

Bottomline..Sociopath/Narcissistic personality....NO EXCUSE for murdering an innocent...In the old dayz they termed this as "The Bad Seed" person...who took out any obstacle to her wants and needs by words or deeds!!...Maybe Casey fits in that category!!:twocents:[/QUOTE

They are not brought into the picture until the actual trial? Why would the psychological reports be sealed?

 

[wonders]

Here's what I don't get about a narcissistic personality, how can they have that me, me, me thing and feel anger if they don't feel for other people or have remorse?

I hope someone understands what I'm trying to ask.