2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

[GhostCrab]

What is so unreasonable and desperate about Q this jury? For all the flag-waving for Jurisprudence and hailing them as constituitonal heroes, looking at how this jury came to its decision is important. If you had a jury that chose to deliberate early, did not follow the JP's instructions, or simply did not understand what reasonable doubt is,(I'm not saying they did this), then it's is worthy of scrutiny.And if any jury, whether they convict or acquit, IMO, comes back within 10 hours in a DP case, they did not take the job seriously. And nothing I have seen or heard, regarding interviews and bios, tells me this was such a smart group of people that they were able to assimilate all this material in 10 hours. Give me a break. The alternate juror on Dateline gave us a clear picture of how they saw the information. If his perspective is typical, he paid attention to non-evidence and speculation more that information backed up by evidence. And their was plenty of emtonial thinking..i.ec. she seemed sincere, she didn't party that much.ect.

Where was the evidence that she was a party girl? That implies someone who has a pattern of behavior. Yes, there were pictures of her but from how many different occasions? Most of them seemed to me to be from the same "hot body" contest. And IIRC there was testimony from her friends at the time that she was not a big drinker. There was nothing to firmly establish that she was a "party girl".

 

[Mysteeri]

And if you refer back to the autopsy it states that the duct tape was only attached to the hair, not the skull in any way. This is a far cry from the mob mentality claiming that there was duct tape covering her mouth.

Her nose and mouth (soft tissue) decomposed. Because the mandible was in place, the duct tape was on her mouth.

 

[pcrum12]

Caylee was at Fusion Nightclub on 6/13/11. Great place for a 2-year-old ...

IMO, any mother that would take her kid to that type of club late at night has no concern for the welfare of the child. Does that constitute child abuse ? No, but it definitely tells me where ICA's priorities were at the time of the killing.

Can you link this? TIA

 

[crimesnooper]

If this same jury had returned a guilty verdict they would be hailed as heroes. Instead, because you do not like what they did, they are having threats made against them, their intellect is being questioned, suggestions of jury tampering is being thrown around, etc. to undermine them. I applaud them for having the courage of their convictions despite the pressure from the public. This is a fantastic example of our system working and fulfilling it's purpose.

Your right, I don't like what they did, but more importantly I can't understand their logic..can't even follow it. And in no way do I support threats against them or KC and her family. But I do think questiong their intelect is fair game. It speaks to just who are the types of people who sit on juries and that is also important. TH have pointed out repeatedly that this jury was very undereducated.JMO

 

[crimesnooper]

Where was the evidence that she was a party girl? That implies someone who has a pattern of behavior. Yes, there were pictures of her but from how many different occasions? Most of them seemed to me to be from the same "hot body" contest. And IIRC there was testimony from her friends at the time that she was not a big drinker. There was nothing to firmly establish that she was a "party girl".

The alterante juror, the younger one, said in the Dateline interview that he thought that her "partying" was normal for someone his or her age.

 

[GhostCrab]

Her nose and mouth (soft tissue) decomposed. Because the mandible was in place, the duct tape was on her mouth.

The duct tape was not found on her mouth. It was found in her hair. The ME speculated that because her mandible was still in place when the skull was found then we must assume that duct tape had been there at some point to keep it in place. It's in Dr. G's testimony.

 

[Ms.Heather]

Caylee was at Fusion Nightclub on 6/13/11. Great place for a 2-year-old ...

IMO, any mother that would take her kid to that type of club late at night has no concern for the welfare of the child. Does that constitute child abuse ? No, but it definitely tells me where ICA's priorities were at the time of the killing.

I don't believe Caylee was at Fusian. I think you've mistaken.

I'll jump in here. All of course, is JMOO. First, the tape was not on the skull it was stuck in the hair. Second, the tape could have just been trash. After all the PT spent alot of time explaining just that. Third, it could have just been taped to the canvas bag to close it.

I can go with your theory for a minute about it taping the bag closed... but then we get to the fact that it ended up and finally rested on her face... or atleast in her hair, and attaching the mandible. So... is it more possible for you to believe that the duct tape was on the outside of the bag... and then because of the elements lost its stickness... came loose from the bag, and happened to land ... sticky side down, tightly enough so that it would hold the mandible in place and get caught in her hair? Thats more reasonable for you? Really? Uhm... ok. Your entitled to your opinion...

I have not based my opinion on her guilt on MY EMOTIONS. I have based her guilt on the fact that I have read almost every single piece of evidence that has come out in this case under the sunshine laws. I have based my opinion on the fact that when all is said and done... she was Caylees mother. She had the responsibility to take care of her child, and to make sure that the child was safe. She failed to do that. She failed to even care. SHE FAILED CAYLEE. Its not an emotional response... You take care of your child. Its your responsibility.

 

[SeaNymph]

My understanding is that the duct tape was only stuck to her hair on one side. The duct tape over the mouth, nose is just the speculation prosecutors used to infer. IIRC. If PT had pictures of the remains with the tape over the mouth and nose they certainly would have presented such instead of a made up superimposed re-creation IMO

The "made up superimposed re-creation" was used solely to show to scale that the tape, according to precise measurements, would have fit over her nose and mouth. When the skull was dug out of the muck, the tape did fall into place over the areas where her 'nose and mouth' would have been. Unfortunely the 'nose and mouth' were gone because she had been placed there to rot away for six months, hence, no possible way SA could have shown ANY pictures depicting her 'nose and mouth'.

 

[Serjen]

And if you refer back to the autopsy it states that the duct tape was only attached to the hair, not the skull in any way. This is a far cry from the mob mentality claiming that there was duct tape covering her mouth.

If the tape was placed on her while she was alive (and not decomposed) then of course the tape wouldn't be sticking to the skull! It was placed on her skin, which decomposed! The fact that it was also attached to some hair and that the mandible stayed in place all that time, shows what it was used for IMO. I'm shocked that people expect to actually see 100% solid evidence of her being smothered in a situation where she was fully decomposed after 6 months. Impossible. Anyone with common sense can figure what the use of the duct tape was for.

 

[pcrum12]

Her nose and mouth (soft tissue) decomposed. Because the mandible was in place, the duct tape was on her mouth.

There is no way to prove that. Pure speculation. JMOO

 

[Nana46]

Seemed sincere about what? She didn't testify, she didn't talk. I feel like we're in the twilight zone. "Oh look at the defendant sitting there looking so sincere." So what if she partied like there was no tomorrow for 31 days after her daughter drowned in a pool of duct tape? She looks sincere. And chesty too.

Thank you for this Chilly Willy....I did not see Dateline but IMO this deserves a big old thank you from me!!!:seeya:

 

[GhostCrab]

Your right, I don't like what they did, but more importantly I can't understand their logic..can't even follow it. And in no way do I support threats against them or KC and her family. But I do think questiong their intelect is fair game. It speaks to just who are the types of people who sit on juries and that is also important. TH have pointed out repeatedly that this jury was very undereducated.JMO

There was IIRC several nurses, a government teacher, a PE teacher, a chef...I could look it up the rest...where are the "uneducated"? The jury is meant to be made up of your peers, not attorneys, doctors and phds.

 

[pcrum12]

The duct tape was not found on her mouth. It was found in her hair. The ME speculated that because her mandible was still in place when the skull was found then we must assume that duct tape had been there at some point to keep it in place. It's in Dr. G's testimony.

And in trying to rebut that the remains had been moved the PT themselves said that root growth could have kept the mandible in place. IIRC

 

[D96s]

Please update with anything interesting. I can't watch anything related to Casey anymore

Me either. And, I get angry when I hear about any show that glorifies the Anthony's, Casey's defense team or any of the jurers. So angry in fact, I email the stations that do it to let them know how angry I am. I wish everyone would do that.

 

[GhostCrab]

If the tape was placed on her while she was alive (and not decomposed) then of course the tape wouldn't be sticking to the skull! It was placed on her skin, which decomposed! The fact that it was also attached to some hair and that the mandible stayed in place all that time, shows what it was used for IMO. I'm shocked that people expect to actually see 100% solid evidence of her being smothered in a situation where she was fully decomposed after 6 months. Impossible. Anyone with common sense can figure what the use of the duct tape was for.

No, not really. Especially in light of Roy Kronk admitting to playing with it on August 11 with his meter reading stick. IMO there is A LOT of reasonable doubt.

 

[Ms.Heather]

Where was the evidence that she was a party girl? That implies someone who has a pattern of behavior. Yes, there were pictures of her but from how many different occasions? Most of them seemed to me to be from the same "hot body" contest. And IIRC there was testimony from her friends at the time that she was not a big drinker. There was nothing to firmly establish that she was a "party girl".

I wouldn't say that she was a party girl. I would say in a normal world... in a normal sense that she was a young girl who liked to go out. However, from 3 years of photos that have surfaced there are MANY instances where she is out partying. I can think off the top of my head, Taco bell night, 21st birthday, night dancing with friends, beer wench night (WHICH CAYLEE WAS THERE FOR), anything but clothes party (CAYLEE WAS ALSO THERE), Fusian (when CAYLEE WAS DEAD).
I never cared much for the party girl term... mostly because if you look at any young womans facebook photos you'll see alot of pics of them out with friends. Its just the fact that she did this right after Caylee had passed that have so many people believing that it was motive. The life she wanted to lead. NOt one tied down to a child where she had to drag her along.

 

[Mysteeri]

The duct tape was not found on her mouth. It was found in her hair. The ME speculated that because her mandible was still in place when the skull was found then we must assume that duct tape had been there at some point to keep it in place. It's in Dr. G's testimony.

It would not be attached to the skull because her mouth decomposed. And yes, that`s the testimony that I meant.

 

[Ms.Heather]

No, not really. Especially in light of Roy Kronk admitting to playing with it on August 11 with his meter reading stick. IMO there is A LOT of reasonable doubt.

Kronk never said he played with it on August 11th with his meter stick.

 

[crimesnooper]

There was IIRC several nurses, a government teacher, a PE teacher, a chef...I could look it up the rest...where are the "uneducated"? The jury is meant to be made up of your peers, not attorneys, doctors and phds.

It came up on In session Jean Casaras(sp?) I will try and find it. According to her, the majority of the jury had only a hs education. And I believe there was one LPN and one nursing student.

 

[GhostCrab]

It would not be attached to the skull because her mouth decomposed. And yes, that`s the testimony that I meant.

The point being is that it was COMPLETE SPECULATION that the tape had ever covered her mouth. In the end 12 people found reasonable doubt that that was not how she died.