MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

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vasportsmom said:
It seems that someone wanted this particular child. She really doesn't fit into the any of the right victim age groups. The question is why this child? Had they simply saw her and fell in love with her (best case)? Did they want to punish her parent(s)? Was she an easy target for a pedophile because they knew dad was away and that mom was careless with security (worst case)? If any of the above are right why did they take so make chances in getting her?

ETA: I guess that should be unnecessary chances. The turning on of the lights and the taking of the cell phones seem to be rather stupid while the rest of the abduction was "perfect", they left no trace of themselves and either aren't on anybody's radar at all or had an alibi all set up that covered them well enough to pass LE questions.
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It might be a stretch, but I wonder if they might have targeted by someone
who lost a baby of the same general age and appearance as Lisa.
 
justbeachy said:
It seems to me that so many of our theories involve a lot of "if this, then this and, then because of that, then this" in order to make them work. I'm starting to feel like a fact contortionist.
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Here's a fact: Lisa's parents have not been named suspects by LE.
 
I'm still baffled by this case.

If it were an intruder, it seems unlikely that Mom or the kids wouldn't wake up. It's possible Lisa would wake when lifted. Whether the lights were turned on by the intruder or the son getting up, you'd think that would be noticed. Plus, it seems odd to take the cell phones off the counter. There's no clear entrance/exit. There's not a lot of clues to go on here.

But - there's not much for the parents, either. How would they get Lisa out of the house without her siblings noticing? Hide the cells? Hide them so well, in face, that they still haven't been found? Then, we have the man carrying the baby sighting in the middle of the night, as well as the suspicious bicycle rider, the handyman, and the teen. There's also exes involved, which statistically can lead to messy situations. The fact that Lisa was taken out of the house quietly points to someone who knows the family, thus making them more confident in navigating the house, or someone who's been watching.

To me, how the parents come across in interviews means very little - they're damned if they do and damned if they don't in every aspect of their behavior, actions, appearances, affect, and tone of voice. Little things like whether they've brushed their hair are picked apart, but in the end, mean nothing. We've had cases where people have been ripped, and turned up innocent. Others come across sympathetically, and are guilty. Behavioral observations are an inexact science. I can't really use their appearances and statements to help me down off the fence.

And then we have LE. They've certainly acted different than I see other LE act in similar cases. The FBI is back seat on this. There's no reward. There's a very public split with the parents for some time, which to me, came across as a bit unprofessional. There are "cofirmed" unnamed LE sources leaking things that Young then disagrees with. At the beginning of this case, there were only 47 tips - so low! The tips are still low. There's no reward. There seems to be very little urgency on the part of LE. They keep searching the same areas. They won't release what they're looking for, who has been cleared, or any real information on the status of the investigation. Most odd, they say things like they challenge others to think of something they hadn't, or that they're waiting for the next idea to come in. I can't tell if they're playing cat and mouse, or if they simply have nothing.
 
luvbeaches said:
That's true. Just when you think you've seen or heard it all, something new comes up. I just don't have good feelings about the baby. I wish I did, but I don't. But then look at Elizabeth Smart. I would have never thought they would find her alive. So maybe Lisa will be found alive and unharmed.
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I didn't think they were going to find Elizabeth Smart alive either. But obviously nobody is going to kidnap a 10 months old baby to make that baby a "sister wife." So it got to be a completely different motive if somebody did kidnap her to begin with.
 
curiousc said:
What bugs me is the way they barely give eye contact and look down a lot when being interviewed Perhaps it's because they are told to speak into the microphones, I don't know.

Then when I have seen them, DB looks to JI to speak many times (almost for him to answer and at other times for reassurance) Yet, for example, when asked about their dog, she has no trouble describing the fact that the dog didn't bark, what the dog normally does, etc.
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Yes!!!! and they keep adding stuff.... Like the first ime "dad" JI says I thought something was wrong when I drove up and saw the window open and all the lights on so I right away checked on the boys then saw Lisa was missing and started running through the house calling her,


Then in the last one I just watch he says, after looking in on the "boys" I went into the office and tried to fix the screen went in and was talking to "mom" DB, and then asked where is Lisa
 
wfgodot said:
I answer to "Woofy Go Dot," lol, I think nursebeeme and shefner gave me that nickname, but the wfgodot is actually for the Samuel Beckett play 'Waiting for Godot,' and the last name there is pronounced Geh-DOE.
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more ot:
This weekend lo andbehold I was flipping channels and was on a random movie (cannot even tell you what it was) and the guy said " i was just sitting around reading "Waiting for Godot" I was like "hey I know that name"
of course I thought of you which in turn made me think websleuths and jumped back on to check on Lisa.
 
curiousc said:
I have a question about the river. How fast is the current? Is it a slow moving river or not?

If Baby Lisa was put in there, is there any chance that she may surface?
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If you're talking about the river near the dump and Edwardsville (The Irwin's live up north and I don't know how close they are to the river up there), but the one here, the Kansas/Kaw River has been high and moving quickly. I personally wouldn't go out in a boat on the river because of the undertow.

While it's not a roaring rapids type river, it does get moving.

Here's a link that shows exactly where LE was searching earlier today. It's where Woodend and S 9th St. merge. It's really not a corner ... you don't stop, you just follow Woodend around the bend and you're on 9th. I think they were right where the blue teardrop is located. It could be there's a boat ramp there, I just don't know. I know there's a parking lot, but I don't know what all is down in that area.

http://www.kansasriver.org/river-access/river-map/edwardsville


If you move the map up, so you're going south, the dump is a little to the southeast. It's to the west of 435 and east of the streets (it's a neighborhood). I didn't realize that the housing developments were that close to the dump. Those people are always complaining about the smell, but the dump has been there for a long, long time. I think Deffenbaugh just got a 10-year extension to keep adding to the dump. It was maybe 3-4 years ago, so this dump is about full.
 
huckleberryhound said:
It might be a stretch, but I wonder if they might have targeted by someone
who lost a baby of the same general age and appearance as Lisa.
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That is as likely as anything else at this point. If I could figure out why aliens would have turned the lights on I would have alien abduction as my top theory right now (j/k, kinda) :crazy:
 
Could the baby have suffocated...parent...parents....afraid of being charged with neglect...maybe the parent panicked at time of death and called someone...and they decided they had to make it look like a night just like any old night...no late phone calls etc...hence the need to make cell phones disappear. Do cell phone pings transmit once under water?...This is horrible to say, but much easier to get rid of a little body...evidence (the body) vanishes more quickly because so small....MOO of course...there are just so many little blue eyed blonde babies in crib across America every night that could be "snatched" there would b more of it if it were some $ business thing. If it were a mentally "ill"person who needed a baby...would they be so good at it as to leave no evidence...and how far away could they be...someone would know....I will say it again...MOO
 
epiphany said:
Search boats along the Missouri River. It was not known if these boats were involved in the search for baby Lisa.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 2:20 PM

http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

Today? Yesterday? When...?
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From that same link, I found this to be a tad interesting:

One investigator held a camera while another attempted to climb through the window of the Irwin home. As the investigator tried to get into the house, the window fell on him.
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In addition to the pictures from yesterday where they were re-enacting and it looked like the officer needed a little help getting through the window.
 
Mojen said:
I know right!

I thought I should add that qualifier considering where I am posting. :p


I am South of the Irwin's home (by like 20 minutes), but it still amazes me that I have seen no fliers down here; nothing.

When the elderly man from Grandview was missing Price Chopper had fliers at every checkout. As I said the other day, I have seen current Kara Kopetsky fliers but no Baby Lisa.

WHY???
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You live that close and you haven't seen any flyers? I find that disturbing.

I think family, friends and volunteers, even a church group should have fliers posted all over a 30 mile radius.

WHY NOT is right!

imo
 
CN2Souls said:
Thank you, yes, I am trying to make total post of all the videos (there are many)

And pinpoint at the exact point the story changes in each one...
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I've noticed the same thing and wanted to tell you it's very kind of you to go thru all that and post the changes.
 
Can anyone think of a reason why JI has not been given a polygraph? He has said he is willing to take one. I don't understand why LE would polygraph the Mom but not the Dad. Even if JI has an alibi, that would not necessarily mean he doesn't have knowledge of what took place.
 
If one of the boys was with mom the father couldn't have looked on the boys without getting into the mother's bedroom. So that is a confusing idea (looking at the boys) coming from the father. He could have only looked at one boy, since the other one was with mom.
 
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