MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[curiousc]

Maybe the child was passed out the window to someone as opposed to a person entering thru the window?

Someone's fresh shoe prints should be outside the window then too.

 

[SarahW]

Has anyone heard how the crib was positioned upon finding the baby gone? A crib rail should be all the way raised up while child is in it sleeping. Now, was it still up when they found her gone? Any crib I have ever leaned over would creak a bit unless I let the rail down. The mom says she had baby monitor on. A creaking crib rail would surely come across on that monitor. Also, it would be difficult to lift a baby that size up and over the side of crib with rail up? This is just another thing that bothers me.

Modern cribs do not have lowering rails anymore. Drop-side out, fixed rails in.
And as other have noticed (and complained about) the mattress height in the photograph available is at a convenient height for lifting out a heavy infant.

 

[MyBelle]

That was a juror who attempted the reinactment, not the defense, if I remember correctly. A juror jumped into the boat and tried to get it rocking.

The defense did their own video.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Just saw a very brief report about the Lisa Irwin story on my local (Detroit) news - mostly about the reenactment. Inside Edition comes on at 4:30, and the case will be covered on that show.

 

[KivaSupporter]

I have not seen this mentioned. Please excuse me if it has.

Just a theory: The mother might have been drinking that night. She was deep asleep or passed out, so she did not hear anything. Therefore, guilt and suspicious behavior?

Possible?

JMO

 

[vasportsmom]

NOW I understand it; I thought he had spilled the food on her or worse.

LOL, yes I had to go back and edit that post a few minutes after I posted it because I noticed that it made no freaking sense.

 

[Just K]

After this amount of time wouldn't the phones be dead?

Not to be contradictory, just a question since I never go that long without charging mine.

Well, IDK but if they were brand new, as the mom, DI, said and she had been programming them...maybe they were then left on the charger but not used thereafter...except maybe for that one call at 2:32 AM. Could be that she turned them off while they were on the charger and then never turned one or both of them back on. But with the new phones they might still ping but not ring. IDK...but it is curious that they have now been back to the backyard three or four times.

 

[panthera]

Has anyone heard how the crib was positioned upon finding the baby gone? A crib rail should be all the way raised up while child is in it sleeping. Now, was it still up when they found her gone? Any crib I have ever leaned over would creak a bit unless I let the rail down. The mom says she had baby monitor on. A creaking crib rail would surely come across on that monitor. Also, it would be difficult to lift a baby that size up and over the side of crib with rail up? This is just another thing that bothers me.

Another thing. She said the baby monitor was on. So was it still on when they discovered Lisa missing? An intruder who takes the time to lift three cell phones likely would turn off the baby monitor so the person on the other end couldn't hear anything going on.

 

[MissJames]

I did say "IF" the parents are innocent....

But Ed Smart and Marc Klaas are still victims, as are their extended family members, the siblings, and the mothers of Elizabeth and Polly. In Polly's case I'd include the other little girls who were there during the kidnapping.

This is one of the few times I'm sitting on the fence ,but tipping towards parental involvement.

I really don't understand the idea of an accident,though.

"oops.The baby's dead .Where can we hide her? "
No way. They would call 911 unless it was intentional. In todays world we have technology and almost everyone knows at least a rudimentary way of performing CPR.
I can't see any accident leading to a kidnapping story .Not for Casey and not for Lisa's parents.
Either they did something to her or she was really taken.JMO

 

[gliving]

Another good point! Were there any shoe prints in or outside the home?

There are now!

I wish they had taken the window frame off and tested it for trace forensic evidence. Even if a perp wears gloves, they leave a residue. I really think LE thought they had the cat in the bag. Now they have to back track, hence the searches yesterday. I still marvel at their searching the roof guttering at night with a flashlight!

 

[lauriej]

http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blo ... -Month-Old
---Live Updates--
KMBC's Peggy Breit: Jeremy's sister says she's heard of two instances where investigators have been checking reports of a family with a baby. One was a tip that a couple with a little boy was checking out at a store, but they were buying girls' clothes. The other was a friend who said police came to her door and asked her to prove that her 10-month old daughter was really hers. Police will not comment on specific tips, but will say that they've checked out tips about babies, and nothing has panned out.

by Brian Foster - KMBC.com...

 

[EllaMae]

The endangered child has to come first.

Sadly, everyone else is collateral. Really.

I'd allow my entire life to be turned inside out, just to help find my child. Like Marc Klaas and John Walsh did. They begged to take polygraphs, did, passed and LE moved on.

Having the endangered child come first is a different thing than having her designated as the only victim.


Debbie DID take a polygraph. She did not refuse. And I think they have allowed their lives to be turned inside out. They have allowed access to their home as well.

 

[tlcya]

Someone's fresh shoe prints should be outside the window then too.

has it been damp or rainy in the area then? I haven't seen anything posted regarding rainfall totals in the area or if there had been recent rains. If there have been, then yes, it is more likely that an intruder would leave footprints, mud. etc.

If KC has been experiencing the drought type weather that many states have this year, then it is just as likely that no footprints/mud, etc were evident.

Any of our locals that could chime in regarding recent rainfall in the area?

 

[IAM]

Modern cribs do not have lowering rails anymore.
And as other have noticed (and complained about) the mattress height in the photograph available is at a convenient height for lifting out a heavy infant.

Ok, thank you. It has been a while since I had a baby (daughter in college)
So, the mother had the mattress raised to that height for a 10mth old? She could fall out easily? I would look for any other pictures they might have of crib and look at the mattress height in those pics. Also I would ask relatives, friends, the boys if that is the normal level that crib mattress was left at. It just seems odd.

 

[panthera]

Well, IDK but if they were brand new, as the mom, DI, said and she had been programming them...maybe they were then left on the charger but not used thereafter...except maybe for that one call at 2:32 AM. Could be that she turned them off while they were on the charger and then never turned one or both of them back on. But with the new phones they might still ping but not ring. IDK...but it is curious that they have now been back to the backyard three or four times.

My understand was one of the phones was JI's, one was DB's broken phone, and the third one was a phone that had been given to her and she was attempting to program it. Not clear if the two working phones were connected to chargers or not, however, all three were together on the kitchen counter.

 

[lauriej]

There are now!

I wish they had taken the window frame off and tested it for trace forensic evidence. Even if a perp wears gloves, they leave a residue. I really think LE thought they had the cat in the bag. Now they have to back track, hence the searches yesterday. I still marvel at their searching the roof guttering at night with a flashlight!

..we did see them on tuesday , in their white protective suits---taking evidence , with a hand held device of some sort, from that particular window.

..they were shown there for quite some time actually.

 

[keeponsearching]

Another thing. She said the baby monitor was on. So was it still on when they discovered Lisa missing? An intruder who takes the time to lift three cell phones likely would turn off the baby monitor so the person on the other end couldn't hear anything going on.

If my baby monitor is turned off, from the childrens room, it makes a loud crackling noise on the other end, which is in my room.

 

[curiousc]

There are now!

I wish they had taken the window frame off and tested it for trace forensic evidence. Even if a perp wears gloves, they leave a residue. I really think LE thought they had the cat in the bag. Now they have to back track, hence the searches yesterday. I still marvel at their searching the roof guttering at night with a flashlight!

That's the first time I ever saw LE up on a roof searching the gutters....but it's probably not been the first time it's ever done.

The gutters could be a good place to hide things, tbh.

 

[JeannieC]

LOL I was waiting for his pants to split.

Like this: http://youtu.be/L9upWn_eNYs and on national tv!

 

[MaciBean]

Has anyone heard how the crib was positioned upon finding the baby gone? A crib rail should be all the way raised up while child is in it sleeping. Now, was it still up when they found her gone? Any crib I have ever leaned over would creak a bit unless I let the rail down. The mom says she had baby monitor on. A creaking crib rail would surely come across on that monitor. Also, it would be difficult to lift a baby that size up and over the side of crib with rail up? This is just another thing that bothers me.

I realized I've used my parenting examples several times, but here's another one. When my kids are sick (or have been sick), that first night that they actually sleep and sleep WELL, I sleep. I've woken up several times to my daughter screaming and actually thought to myself, "I wonder how long she's been doing that." lol So, not hearing EVERYTHING, IMO, would be normal.