Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #4

[Pensfan]

BBM People have known about the creeps that attack little kids for eons. It is nothing new.

Pedophilia was not discussed as a disorder in the USA until the 1950s and this was only among psychiatrists. This paraphalia didn't even have a medical name until 1880 or 1890.

 

[Pensfan]

I'm sorry you misunderstood my post. Please send blessings and compassion for those who have to gather the courage, and testify in court. I'm neither victim nor survivor - I'm a mountain climber who made it to the top of the mountain, if not, pretty darn close, but thank you!

My heart hurts, because these posts/stories are defending an institution that is more than powerful enough to defend itself. The very thing you are promoting/reminding is the very fabric of the blanket of protection covering up Sandusky's behavior.

The time for PR for Penn State/Second Mile is AFTER all of the rats are in the trap. Pedophiles are not still walking among us just because those of this ilk are difficult to identify. They walk among us in these situations, because the almighty dollar is a pretty powerful silencer. "Fear of ... " is another excuse. I will never believe only 5 people were in the know about Sandusky. I don't think any reasonable person would buy that either.

As far as blaming the entire Penn State system, someone explain to me when these concerned citizens are going to have a riot in the name of the victims? When is the gentleman (John Matko his name?) who stood up for the victims going to receive his apologies for the abuse he took at the Nebraska visitors game? When are the good folks at Penn State going to rally the prosecutors, to have a new hearing on bail to get a monitor on Sandusky? When are the good folks of Penn State going to rush through new enforceable rules that WILL protect the children from the moment they step onto that property, until they step off the property?

While blaming all of Penn State wouldn't be and isn't usually the way my mind works, I can see someone going there.

Again, if a cause is one's passion, that person WILL research charities and find one that fits their passion. Those who are hesitant will step back for a while. It's a natural consequence of these situations.

All of this is just my opinion. I am grateful for the opportunity to express it.

If you will recall, Penn State students held a candlelight vigil with 10,000 students in attendance. They also have generated over $500,000 in the past few weeks for Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania and the donations are still coming in.

As for John Matko, he stated on ESPN that "only a few fans offered a colorful word or two, but that was about it."
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/38500/one-mans-penn-state-protest

The new bail hearing for Sandusky will likely be coming, but all new charges have to be investigated.

 

[Reader]

Has Joe Paterno been determined to have Alzheimers or other memory loss?

This article on his cancer and other ailments the last several years does not mention that...

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/paterno-illness-latest-penn-state-shocker

 

[Concerned Papa]

Pedophilia was not discussed as a disorder in the USA until the 1950s and this was only among psychiatrists. This paraphalia didn't even have a medical name until 1880 or 1890.

At least where I'm from in the deep south, you're correct in that we didn't sit around the supper table discussing evil acts like this piece of crap wrought on these children. We also didn't sit around wondering what the latest psychobabble about his, *ahem*, "disorder" happened to say on the subject.

But make no mistake about it, what this monster did to that child in the shower in 2002 has long been known as evil where I'm from. Make no mistake about it, what this monster did to another innocent child in the same damn shower in 2000 was known to be evil as well.

Call me backward, non enlightened, or behind the times if you must, but I don't give a rat's azz WHY this piece of crap did what he did. I care only about his receiving justice for his acts along with EVERY individual drawing a breath who knew and did NOTHING to stop him.

No matter who they may be, from a Governor all the way down to a janitor.

 

[Emeralgem]

If you will recall, Penn State students held a candlelight vigil with 10,000 students in attendance. They also have generated over $500,000 in the past few weeks for Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania and the donations are still coming in. As for John Matko, he stated on ESPN that "only a few fans offered a colorful word or two, but that was about it."
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/38500/one-mans-penn-state-protest

The new bail hearing for Sandusky will likely be coming, but all new charges have to be investigated.

IMHO.. The 10,000 students who held the candlelight vigil should unite and demand anyone in the know concerning the incidents which took place on the Penn State campus and who did little or nothing to make certain Sandusky never molested another child resign from their positions..Immediately, IF not sooner works fine for me.. JMHO

 

[Pensfan]

<modsnip>

Right now we don't know anyone, but 5 individuals (7 if I add Raykovitz and his wife) that were involved in covering for Sandusky. Implicating generous benefactors and volunteers who wanted to help underprivileged children is wrong. I do believe that individuals who were around Sandusky such as child psychologist Raykovitz and his wife, the M.ED in school counseling, DID have the knowledge to recognize Sandusky's behaviors as those of a pedophile.

It took until 2004 for Megan&#8217;s Law to be created where parents could view the list of dangerous predators in their area. That is the most powerful evidence showing that it wasn&#8217;t until very recently that people began to worry about identifying pedophiles. Many parents still do not know of this site and others who do know don't even bother to view it frequently.

Notice the times that Sandusky was sexually molested kids. It was in the evening and not during the busy times of the day. Consider that he might also be a thrill-seeking sociopath and enjoyed the thrill of committing a crime in a place where he might be caught.

Pedophiles, like most criminals, operate in secrecy. Pedophiles try to establish a good reputation in their communities. They desire the "great guy" reputation so they will be trusted by adults who would otherwise prevent their contact with children. This, along with the fact that most Americans haven't studied pedophile behavior and can't imagine adults being sexually attracted to children, is why their behavior/grooming isn't suspected as "creepy". Read the medical literature.

 

[Reader]

Personally, I'm not troubled by the term "horseplay." It can, like "fooling around," have a double meaning, one of which is perfectly innocent.

I'm trying to play juror here, and I've been told that no prosecutor would ever want me on a jury.

I can, at least, make an argument that a 55 year old man showering with an unrelated 11 boy while both are naked isn't criminal. I can even make an argument that scrubbing, in that case his back isn't criminal. It is the bear hug by a 55 year old man of and unrelated 11 year old boy while both are naked in a shower that crosses the "open lewdness" line. There is no legitimate "hygiene" purpose for it.

It is not necessary to touch the child in order for him to be charged with a first degree misdemeanor....he exposed his genitals to a child under the age of 16...sometimes as young as 8 years old! It's really not hard to understand and I'm sure will be apparent to the people chosen for this jury as it is for most of us.

"But under Pennsylvania's child protection laws, what Sandusky admitted to in an interview with NBC's Bob Costas could fit the definition of indecent exposure. If children under 16 were involved, it could be a first-degree misdemeanor with a maximum punishment of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

Indecent exposure fits under the definition of a child sex crime, according to Pennsylvania state law.

Title 18, Chapter 31 of the Pennsylvania state code defines indecent exposure as when a person exposes his or her genitals "in any place where there are present other persons under circumstances in which he or she knows or should know that this conduct is likely to offend, affront or alarm."

The law considers that exposure to be a second-degree misdemeanor. But the law also says: "If the person knows or should have known that any of the persons present are less than 16 years of age," it's a first-degree misdemeanor.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/11/15/130393/sandusky-claims-innocence-but.html#ixzz1f3JdroOg

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is not necessary to touch the child in order for him to be charged with a first degree misdemeanor....he exposed his genitals to a child under the age of 16...sometimes as young as 8 years old! It's really not hard to understand and I'm sure will be apparent to the people chosen for this jury as it is for most of us.

"But under Pennsylvania's child protection laws, what Sandusky admitted to in an interview with NBC's Bob Costas could fit the definition of indecent exposure. If children under 16 were involved, it could be a first-degree misdemeanor with a maximum punishment of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

Indecent exposure fits under the definition of a child sex crime, according to Pennsylvania state law.

Title 18, Chapter 31 of the Pennsylvania state code defines indecent exposure as when a person exposes his or her genitals "in any place where there are present other persons under circumstances in which he or she knows or should know that this conduct is likely to offend, affront or alarm."

The law considers that exposure to be a second-degree misdemeanor. But the law also says: "If the person knows or should have known that any of the persons present are less than 16 years of age," it's a first-degree misdemeanor.

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/11/15/130393/sandusky-claims-innocence-but.html#ixzz1f3JdroOg

The thing is, the "Open Lewdness" definition comes into play under Unlawful Contact with Minor: http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.063.018.000.html

If you can prove that Sandusky's act constituted "Open Lewdness," you can charge him under "Unlawful Contact." "Unlawful Contact" is a 3rd felony, and a conviction would put Sandusky on the Megan's Law list. "Indecent Exposure" won't do that.

It is only a question if the act, the bear hug, constitutes "Open Lewdness" and if the five witnesses are credible.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If you don't like my posts, use Websleuth's option of blocking individuals.

What I have posted about Penn State were facts.

Right now we don't know anyone, but 5 individuals (7 if I add Raykovitz and his wife) that were involved in covering for Sandusky. Implicating generous benefactors and volunteers who wanted to help underprivileged children is wrong. I do believe that individuals who were around Sandusky such as child psychologist Raykovitz and his wife, the M.ED in school counseling, DID have the knowledge to recognize Sandusky's behaviors as those of a pedophile.

It took until 2004 for Megan’s Law to be created where parents could view the list of dangerous predators in their area. That is the most powerful evidence showing that it wasn’t until very recently that people began to worry about identifying pedophiles. Many parents still do not know of this site and others who do know don't even bother to view it frequently.

Notice the times that Sandusky was sexually molested kids. It was in the evening and not during the busy times of the day. Consider that he might also be a thrill-seeking sociopath and enjoyed the thrill of committing a crime in a place where he might be caught.

Pedophiles, like most criminals, operate in secrecy. Pedophiles try to establish a good reputation in their communities. They desire the "great guy" reputation so they will be trusted by adults who would otherwise prevent their contact with children. This, along with the fact that most Americans haven't studied pedophile behavior and can't imagine adults being sexually attracted to children, is why their behavior/grooming isn't suspected as "creepy". Read the medical literature.

I think a lot of people knew there was something wrong with Sandusky. I can't believe either that only two people saw him naked in the showers with little kids. It was out there, people were sitting back snickering about Sandusky liking little boys and Sandusky was getting off on the power over the kids and witnesses but what was important was football and the almighty fundraising dollar.

 

[wfgodot]

Jerry Sandusky has hired a private investigator to study sex-abuse claims, his attorney says (pennlive.com)

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Jerry Sandusky has hired a private investigator to study sex-abuse claims, his attorney says (pennlive.com)

:floorlaugh:Wonder if it is Bill Stanton?

 

[wfgodot]

:floorlaugh:Wonder if it is Bill Stanton?

Lololol. I laughed aloud so abruptly that I woke the dog, who then started barking. Good one.

 

[Reader]

Pedophilia was not discussed as a disorder in the USA until the 1950s and this was only among psychiatrists. This paraphalia didn't even have a medical name until 1880 or 1890.

Not only by psychiatrists...those of us who have worked in child protection services were trained in how to work with children and families who were victims of pedophilia, incest and other sexual abuses. I have referred several cases to the SA for prosecution and saw most of the perpetrators convicted, one for 30 years sentence. And this was back in the late 60s and 70s.

These types of crimes have been out of the closet for a long time even in the general public...but in this case the crimes of Sandusdy were obviously covered up, for what purpose, by whom and how long, are the questions I want answered. I hope this will be determined in the trial and we will see just exactly how he was able to almost flaunt what he was doing with no consequences until now.

 

[Reader]

The thing is, the "Open Lewdness" definition comes into play under Unlawful Contact with Minor: http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.063.018.000.html

If you can prove that Sandusky's act constituted "Open Lewdness," you can charge him under "Unlawful Contact." "Unlawful Contact" is a 3rd felony, and a conviction would put Sandusky on the Megan's Law list. "Indecent Exposure" won't do that.

It is only a question if the act, the bear hug, constitutes "Open Lewdness" and if the five witnesses are credible.

Won't the rapes take care of that problem also? Getting his name on the Megan's Law list is the least of his problems and my hopes...he needs to go to PRISON for a long time!

You mention 5 witnesses, but we know that at least 10 others have come forward, plus the 2 children, one his own grandchild...and the investigation continues....

 

[Pensfan]

I think a lot of people knew there was something wrong with Sandusky. I can't believe either that only two people saw him naked in the showers with little kids. It was out there, people were sitting back snickering about Sandusky liking little boys and Sandusky was getting off on the power over the kids and witnesses but what was important was football and the almighty fundraising dollar.

Below is an organization which many are not familiar. Adults are familiar with fire prevention strategies, water safety strategies, head injury prevention and others safety strategies for children, but the info. on identifying pedos is relatively new and unknown to many.
http://www.stopitnow.org/behaviors_watch_adult_with_children

Few people recognize that the consistent childish behavior of a grown man is one characteristic of a pedophile. IMO, Amendola mistaken defended his client Sandusky with red flag words for a pedophile during his interview because even he didn&#8217;t recognize "big overgrown kid" was one characteristic of a pedophile.
http://www.stopitnow.org/behaviors_watch_adult_with_children

&#8220;Jerry Sandusky is a big overgrown kid,&#8221; Amendola said.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/media/jerry-sandusky-says-it-was-only-horseplay-1.3321635

 

[Reader]

Lololol. I laughed aloud so abruptly that I woke the dog, who then started barking. Good one.

I did the same...except my cats looked at me funny....thanks Dr. Fessel for the chuckle!

 

[Pensfan]

So now, after your voluminous elaborations of a theory that Sandusky has been a master in deception and secrecy, your new theory is that he is a "thrill-seeking sociopath and enjoyed the thrill of committing a crime in a place where he might be caught." :floorlaugh:

Pedophiles and secrecy:
http://www.abusewatch.net/child_thesecret.php
http://ezinearticles.com/?Pedophile--Characteristics-and-Behavior-Patterns&id=262990
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=519
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...01108/how-errors-in-thinking-apply-pedophiles
http://www.child-safety-for-parents.com/profile-of-a-pedophile.html

Sociopaths and thrill-seeking behavior:
http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/~kopeikin/103lec7.htm

Please review the times that Sandusky was seen molesting/raping children. They were in the evening and not during the busy time of the day in the locker room. He needed the locker room as his ruse and the fact that he was in a place where he might be caught is thrill-seeking behavior of a sociopath. Look it up.

 

[FloatingStar]

Basically, Paterno and the old boys club really did not need any "training" to recognize pedophiles after an eye-witness report of rape. As has been repeated many time, coaches are a tight-knit group and know what's going on in the locker room. To excuse Paterno is to enable enablers, pure and simple. Basically it is condoning looking the other way and allowing rape of children.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Pedophiles and secrecy:
http://www.abusewatch.net/child_thesecret.php
http://ezinearticles.com/?Pedophile--Characteristics-and-Behavior-Patterns&id=262990
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=519
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...01108/how-errors-in-thinking-apply-pedophiles
http://www.child-safety-for-parents.com/profile-of-a-pedophile.html

Sociopaths and thrill-seeking behavior:
http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/~kopeikin/103lec7.htm

Please review the times that Sandusky was seen molesting/raping children. They were in the evening and not during the busy time of the day in the locker room. He needed the locker room as his ruse and the fact that he was in a place where he might be caught is thrill-seeking behavior of a sociopath. Look it up.

But isn't pedophilia both a thrill and a secret? I don't think we have to choose one or the other because this was a public man in plain sight, and the fact is that people knew he wasn't arrested after the Grand Jury.

I think it was a thrill for him to hide in plain sight and make euphemistic jokes about how much he loved and cared for children ~ in his published book, and and in material for his charity.

He also took in foster children and lived beside a school, so he was also fooling child services and society in general.

I think it was just as much a thrill to be alone with children in the locker room showers on campus, where he brought children in plain sight and knew he was seen by janitors and at least one other coach. I think he believed he was above the law, just like the guy who is in trouble in Syracuse.

I believe many more people knew about this, but like McQueary feared for their jobs. Money talks sometimes and common decency walks.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Second Mile is not the "fruit of Penn State", but you guys can believe that it you must get your hatin' on today.

Second Mile is the fruit of the poisonous tree of Sandusky's alleged crimes (not Penn State).

It doesn't make me a hater to say this...I take no pleasure in it, no matter where this occurred.

It was started by an alleged pedophile likely for the purpose of generating a perpetual stream of victims while under the cover of performing charitable work.

Assuming the presentment is true, all the good, decent people who volunteered or donated to Second Mile were also victimized by this man because their good deeds only served to cover the evil at the core of the organization.

The assets of this organization are likely to be seized in civi suits. The organization cannot continue under the same name because of the taint of pedophilia. Those that participated in the victimization or looked the other way while this went on need to be uncovered and rooted out.

The good people of PA need to create a new organization to fulfill the honest mission of Second Mile.