TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

[Shelby1]

@janabarnello
Jana Barnello
Matthew Palmgren's atty: HCSO told them they know crash time/date b/c cell "ping" shows when device height above sea level changed suddenly
3 minutes

I had no idea they could tell something like device height.

 

[CatFancier]

Forgive me if I missed this, do we know who Gail was speaking to on the phone at that time? Did that information ever come out?

In the beginning I think we believed it was her sister but MSM reported later that MP was the last one to talk to her...


http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/14/da-asks-haslam-palmgren-reward/

In a letter sent to Haslam’s legal counsel Wednesday, District Attorney General Bill Cox requests a “monetary reward for information or assistance” in locating Gail Palmgren, 44, who has been missing since April 30.

In the letter, Cox specifies that Palmgren last spoke with her husband, Matthew Palmgren, that day and he writes that, since then, “no reported communication with her has existed.”

 

[KathyJ]

I don't understand about the boulder either - I'm still trying to process all this with my tired brain.

And if she parked on the grassy side of the road and it was slippery that day, there should have been tire tracks going over the edge.

If she drove over the boulder somehow the other rocks should have stopped her fall, it seems to me, unless it was a completely freak accident. To be fair, there had been heavy rain earlier in the week from the tornadoes. But where are the tire tracks?

The tree where the jeep is lodged and all the trees around are a deciduous trees. Looks like a group of oak trees to me, and that makes sense for the area. They would have had huge canopies of leaves over them between April and now so even if someone could have looked down from the Brow, they wouldn't have seen the jeep from above.

The fact is, people did drive the roads and search the roadsides several times. But this is a sheer vertical drop. Even if you went out onto the edge and leaned over - which most people wouldn't do because it's very dangerous - you could never have seen that jeep in the summer time no matter how many people were searching.

From below on the W. Road you can't just look up through the trees. There is a tangle of vines and trees that cover the mountainside for some distance. It's a dense green mass all summer. And basically, you can't really stop on the W and look around whether you're going up or down or you might have a wreck yourself.

And as a local I have to say that there are literally a thousand other places on that mountain where you might expect someone to go over the edge, and I'm sure people checked those places first. The reason police never rapelled down there to that particular place is that they wouldn't have suspected someone could roll/fly off in a jeep without some evidence left on the road.

But what's also significant to me is that there aren't many places on the mountain that don't have guard rails or rock walls either. How did she just happen to go over right there where the road isn't even curvy or particularly dangerous? I have no idea. So the question remains what was she doing there and where was she going?

Thank you for all of that clarification, as I have said I am not from the area so have no concept of where she went off the road and whether or not you could peer over and see anything.

This just could very well be a freak accident, but of course it will be interesting to see if they can figure out just exactly how the accident occurred. I keep hearing she stopped on a grassy area--how would anyone know that? Also, I may have missed this but how are they so specific of the time? I get they are basing it on phone calls but can they be that sure she went over at 12:25?

I also find it so interesting that LE is being so forthcoming right now with all this information and MP's lawyers were able to get a quick response out with a time line...when we have spent the last 7 months with absolutely no information!

I did notice in one of the MSM yesterday that they had the road blocked off because it was a "crime scene" I find the fact that they used those words so odd. I would have thought they would have said and "investigation"

 

[SuHarper]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

 

[CatFancier]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

Excellent question! I think it was her license and credit cards reported to have been left at home.

 

[JBean]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

My assumption is that she had another DL. She may have had it replaced or something.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

Welcome, SuHarper! :seeya:

We talked alot in the beginning that she might have had both a Tennessee and Alabama DL. We don't know which one she had with her in the car. That is not unusual for the Chattanooga area because we are near the borders with GA and AL - although technically you are supposed to surrender an out of state license when you get one in TN.

 

[Melodie]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

There are so many questions. I wondered the same thing. Also, for those that have followed this case very closely from the beginning, where is the bag with AD's laptop and boat key? That bag should have been in the Jeep. Is it there? Hopefully when they complete the investigation, most or all of the questions will be answered and the final determination will be definite. Prayers to Gail's children, family and friends.

 

[ynotdivein]

I'm curious. I thought early on it was established that her license, id, purse, etc., was left at home when she dropped the kids off. Did I miss where it was stated that was in error? If not, my confusion stems from finding a purse and I.D. in the Jeep. I apologize if I've overlooked something, but I'm a newby here at WS. TIA.

Although it is under less than ideal circumstances, :welcome: SuHarper to WS! Thank you for joining us.

 

[ThoughtFox]

There are so many questions. I wondered the same thing. Also, for those that have followed this case very closely from the beginning, where is the bag with AD's laptop and boat key? That bag should have been in the Jeep. Is it there? Hopefully when they complete the investigation, most or all of the questions will be answered and the final determination will be definite. Prayers to Gail's children, family and friends.

I'm praying that laptop was in there, although I'm unsure about whether Gail had time to type anything personal into it unless she worked on it that night at the boathouse or when they stopped on the way home. She was driving all day before she dropped off the kids.

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm praying that laptop was in there, although I'm unsure about whether Gail had time to type anything personal into it unless she worked on it that night at the boathouse or when they stopped on the way home. She was driving all day before she dropped off the kids.

TF..One question..Has it been confirmed the key was in the bag with the laptop and there was ONLY one key for the boat?
My understanding is MP used the boat quite a few times this past summer..JMHO

 

[taagean]

Just an idea I had about why she could have gone over the edge. Maybe a car coming up the hill was passing another vehicle as Gail was heading down and she had to swerve to miss it.
Another idea - the phone have rang and she looked away from the road?

Apologies is this has already been discussed.

 

[Emeralgem]

Just an idea I had about why she could have gone over the edge. Maybe a car coming up the hill was passing another vehicle as Gail was heading down and she had to swerve to miss it.
Another idea - the phone have rang and she looked away from the road?

Apologies is this has already been discussed.

The location where the jeep left the mountain is on top of the mountain. East Brow is not one of the main roads that run up and down the mountain...JMHO

 

[Oriah]

Just an idea I had about why she could have gone over the edge. Maybe a car coming up the hill was passing another vehicle as Gail was heading down and she had to swerve to miss it.
Another idea - the phone have rang and she looked away from the road?

Apologies is this has already been discussed.

That's a thought, but I don't know... the way the road is right there, if you were traveling in either direction, you'd have to make almost a 90 degree angle turn I believe to go over the bluff.

JBean, maybe your BIL will be able to help out. I agree most of the weight of the vehicle is in the front end, so for the initial impact to be the rear of the vehicle- idk. I don't think it's possible for it to have somersalted before initial impact?

Guess we will have to wait on crash scene investigators to explain it for us.

 

[JBean]

That's a thought, but I don't know... the way the road is right there, if you were traveling in either direction, you'd have to make almost a 90 degree angle turn I believe to go over the bluff.

JBean, maybe your BIL will be able to help out. I agree most of the weight of the vehicle is in the front end, so for the initial impact to be the rear of the vehicle- idk. I don't think it's possible for it to have somersalted before initial impact?

Guess we will have to wait on crash scene investigators to explain it for us.

I am compiling my questions for him, we missed each other today.
I guess if it bounced off trees and did not hit any ground until the end it could have hit bottom first?

 

[glorias]

Snipped for space

If she drove over the boulder somehow the other rocks should have stopped her fall, it seems to me, unless it was a completely freak accident. To be fair, there had been heavy rain earlier in the week from the tornadoes. But where are the tire tracks?

(snip)

But what's also significant to me is that there aren't many places on the mountain that don't have guard rails or rock walls either. How did she just happen to go over right there where the road isn't even curvy or particularly dangerous? I have no idea. So the question remains what was she doing there and where was she going?

It's possible she hit the rock and it impacted enough that it caused the Jeep to swivel, to turn sideways and fall back down the grassy strip off of the cliff. But when she hit those other rocks as well as that bear-shaped rock then surely pieces of the Jeep would have been left behind up on the lookout area. Becoming airborne is the only thing that I can think of which would explain why only one rock was disturbed, but it's a straight road. How could a 5000 pound Jeep go airborne there?

It is extremely odd that she would go off the road right there where an old lookout (or whatever it is) was located, on a straight strip of road, in broad daylight without weather visibility issues, with no one noticing. It certainly doesn't seem like someone else pushed her off, and nothing indicates she drove off on her own. It's a strange place for someone to push someone off -- it's residential for one thing, and the chance the car could end up down on W Road is another reason they wouldn't chose that location.

Personally, I'm certain this will eventually be labeled an accident (and on a completely personal side note, I would bet money Matt will tell people he thinks Gail committed suicide), but I have to say that the unbelievable amount of coincidences from beginning to end are problematic for me. I will always wonder just why people hired criminal defense attorneys and covered their hinders so well, for starters.

 

[glorias]

In some ways, this is the best case scenario (obviously her being alive somewhere and coming home to her boys is the only "best" scenario, but I mean at least they won't live life NEVER knowing where she is). They will be able to bury her and say goodbye. However, the other part of me is absolutely nauseous that those kids lost their mom to an accident which is what I am feeling like this was. I am imagining her being emotional, potentially crying, probably driving faster than usual, maybe looking at her phone...

She was obviously upset after multiple 911 calls and her husband returning from significant time with his girlfriend while pretending to be at work. She had gone to the police station and was given numbers for a safe house, plus Matt left those "cryptic" messages on her sister's voice mail; she was probably frightened. She probably had barely slept that night so she could get the kids to the house by noon.

 

[Pearl*]

One article said the rock weighed a couple hundred pounds. I can find the link shortly.
I 100% concur that backing over a rock and forcing it off the cliff does not make sense at "back up" speeds, from what we knw at this time. Additonally, I assume the rock which was shaped like a bear, was not a flat rock, and her jeep sets high off the ground.
She was on a straight away but reaching for a phone or purse would be enough to drive off the road but doesn;t make any sense it terms of landing rear end first, if true.

I have more questions than answers I am afraid.

I remember hearing or reading the "couple hundred pounds" estimate. I also remember hearing one of the reporters say that one person could have moved it. Hmmm. I've moved many heavy things (including rock) with the "end over end" maneuver. I wonder if it's even possible the rock were rolled off ahead of time with some plan for the car to follow later? Do we know for sure she made impact with the rock?

This is sounding more and more like a physics lesson in what could have been. I don't think I've heard it said how far from the top to the point of first impact... thus, the chance the jeep could have already flipped to hit rear first.

ETA: Would a full gas tank have significantly altered the weight distribution of the vehicle to make a difference in the path? Do we know if she had a more full or more empty tank, maybe considering records of fueling up on the way back from Alabama?

 

[Peliman]

Trying to firm up some information because the rock and being found at the crash scene and I'm still curious where the car left the road. I'll post once again the lookout point on E. Brow road with the rocks across it.

Is this the lookout point people suspect she went over the mountain?

Are any of the rocks missing or is the rock still there? IOW is this picture before the accident?

I think the boulder has a story to tell. Click to enlarge pic.

 

[JBean]

The rock was shaped like a bear and was conspicuously absent.
There are 2 lookouts fairly close by and at different points in time they look different. I think you have the correct one because there is no wall behind. But the other one has rocks across it in a similar fashion as your picture but it has a wall behind it. So we just need a current picture.

I suppose if the rock was tall enough it could have gotten dragged by the undercarriage when she went through and the car bounced off trees causing it to ultimately land on the rear end first. Just seems she would have to been moving a pretty good clip. Is there any kind of incline or decline at this point does anyone know?